moonslav59

I'm just saying it sounds worse than calling some of you Bloom bashers. I think it's childish to be so narrow minded, but I would not say it's you at the kiddie table.

Care to elaborate?

I could interpret this to mean you admit to being a Bloom basher, so how is it name-calling?.

This says it all. First, "nobody is saying it's all that counts", then immediately you follow by saying it is "what counts."

I'd say "kiddie table" is worse than Bloom bashers, but just tell me to stop using Bloom bashers, and I will. Is BOHC okay?

"Bloom bashers" is name-calling? I thought you guys were proud Bloom-Basher flag flyers. My apologies.

Not very original, either. We are spinning circles. To me, I'm just saying it's a factor, and yous eem to think I'm saying that excuses a sucky record. It doesn't. I don't believe it. It sucks for all of us, but I do think our team is not as bad as the record indicated for several reasons. Call it excuse-making or deny that's what you say or mean, but I call it adding context and nuance or reality. In no way, does it mean we'll be better next year, as the division will likely be just as strong or even stronger. In no way does it diminish the injury factors. In no way does it diminish declines by too many returning vets- many taking up a huge percent of the restricted player payroll budget. In no way does it diminish the fact that we just had too many damn holes on the roster and poor choices by our GM and manager and maybe players and player team leaders, too. There is lots of blame to go around, when you suck, this badly, and blaming the guy in charge is natural and not without merit, but I don't think trying to add context is something outlandish or unreasonable. I also don't think just simply saying we should have a better record and Bloom/Cora are in charge and mostly to blame is unreasonable, either. I just don't agree they bear the major portion of blame.

We've never had a GM trade so many top prospects in just a 3 year window. We have not even reached the total rebuild point, but we are closer, IMO. Then, we need to expect a delay in seeing results, as prospects don't jump from Rookie ball to MLB in 1-2 years. Expect even longer due to Bloom's choice to draft HS players over college players. Bloom has gone out of his way to add farm pieces that are nearer to ML ready than draftees and IFA via trades and Rule 5, but "How Soon is Now?" (Shout out to The Smiths.) I'm hopeful the wait won't be too long, and I felt pretty down after 2011 and 2012 and again after 2014, too, but those farms were in better shape, and the checkbook was opened more quickly and fully in subsequent years than we've seen until March 2022, and that was not for a Price-type contact, either. (or, CC, AGon or Sale.) I get the impatience. I get the frustration. I get the feeling that someone needs to be blamed for where we are, right now, and Bloom is the obvious and easiest target. To each his own.

The truth hurts, huh? Would it help if I switched to a more wordy "Those who feel Bloom is in over his head complainers?" Maybe shorten to the BOHC club?

Maybe, I'm wrong, but I think this was the best the ALE has ever been, in terms of most wins by all 5 teams. It has slipped a bit from when I first said it- back when we had no losing records in the division, but I still think it is the strongest, top to bottom, ever. (Show me I'm wrong, and I'll gladly admit I was wrong. 2 in top 8 (2 in 12 would be the norm) 3 in top 12 (3 in 18 the norm) 4 in top 14 (4 in 24) 5 in top 18 (5 in 25-30) 2021 2 in top 7 3 in 8 4 in 9 but BAL was 30th with 110 losses 2018 2 in 3 3 in 11 4 in 22 5 in 30 (BAL had 115 losses) 2013 2 in 9 3 in 14 BAL w 77 losses) 4 in 15 NYY w 77 5 in 22 (TOR w 88 losses) 2007 2 in 4 3 in 15 (TOR w 77 losses) 4 in 27 (BAL w 93) 5 in 30 (TBR w 96) 2004 2 in 3 3 in 18 (BAL w 84) 4 in 23 (TBR w 91) 5 in 26 (TOR w 94) And once again, I think you are reading more into one part of adding context to this season's sucky record. Strength of schedule does factor into a team's record, Like it or not.

Not even counting all of the promising prospects traded for guys like Pedro, Schill, Agon, Sale and Kimbrel, look at the farm pipeline of the past to that of the last 4-5 years. How can that not be accepted as part of the reason rebuilding the team has been so slow and sporadic? Tight budgets and injuries, and just plain bad luck have been factors, but here's an incomplete list of major farm additions over the last decade or so. Some here have stated that they expected to see Bloom farm help after just 3 years. Many are the same ones that bitched about trades that brought us prospects, like Betts, Beni, Ottavino, JBJ and others (not that some were not worthy of criticism.) 2012-2016 Betts Devers Bogey Beni JBJ Barnes Vaz Workman Iggy TShaw 2017-2021 Houck Dalbec Duran Brian Johnson (I can't think of anyone else.) 2022 Casas Bello Wink Crawford Wong Downs Due to the delay in rebuilding the farm and then developing the rebuild, we should start seeing some of Bloom's prospects in the next 1-5 years. (One could count Whitlock as a Bloom prospect, but he really should not count as a Sox farm product. Wink, Seabold and German, yes, to some degree. I'm not saying the b loom bashers ignore this, but I hardly ever hear them add this type of context to the results that clearly are linked to what type of players a GM gets from the farm established over the previous 2-6 years. Then, there are the prospect trades we all are all-to-familiar with.

Again, I'm not sugar coating last place. I'm not denying we suck. I'm not complaining about the schedule. I'm pointing out that is was a factor. I don't want us to be in the ALC or ALW. BTW, the ALE has never been as tough as now, so bringing up 2016-2018 is deceptive. If you don't want to add any context, fine. Nowhere have I ever even hinted that not winning is or should be our goal. Those kind of statements are absurd and inflammatory.

1. Umlike others, I have never said DD "emptied the arm," but I don't think it's an exaggeration to say his trades had a profound affect on the prospect pipeline from 2015 to 2021. 2. He traded about 20 prospects that at one time or another were top 20 Sox prospects. We can argue, in hindsight, how many turned out to be plusses, but that's an undisputed fact. No other Sox GM has come close to doing that in just 3 years. (BTW, I'm fine with those choices but accept the consequences, too.) 3. Injuries and underperforming players are also part of the reason. Where did anyone ever say the bad farm was the only reason?

I agree. 10th place sucks. I don't think Oh for 80+, then 4 in 20 is a fluke not influenced by the owner and management team he put in place. Agree to disagree on that. Yes, we came close in '67, '75, '78 and '86, and yes, we lost on the field and due to circumstances like Rice getting hurt, but by your standards, isn't that just excuse making for poor management choices?

Wacha looks to be pitching his way out of a QO.

I know that, but I think it's a pipedream to think we can fix 10 holes with guys like Judge and Turner. When you look at the 2020 roster, we've improved in many areas. The farm has begun to help and looks to keep helping more than from 2016-2021. Improving slightly at a few psoi2tions, so we can focus more resources on key upgrades is a solid plan, when you don't have the Dodger's owner.

In your opinion, obviously not. I wouldn't say it's "alright,"either, but I'd choose this philosophy over the '72 to '03 philosophy 7 days a week. I know those shouldn't be the only two choices, but IMO, the only way you find the balance we need is to build and maintain a deep and strong farm- something many think differently about. (I'm not claiming to know better than those who want to use the farm for the hear and now by trading many of the best away. It's just my opinion.) Building a farm takes time. Seeing the results of a built up farm takes even more time. Finishing last and panicking by trading away almost the whole farm is the type of plan that gets us to where we are, right now.

I try really hard to answer any questions asked of me. I wonder why others can't even try to answer simple questions. I'm fine with follow up questions, but can you just answer this one question?.

If playing the toughest schedule in MLB does not matter or make a slight difference to you or others, that's fine. I can disagree and think otherwise., but it's our right to look beyond just place ranking and W-L record when evaluating just how bad this team has been. Nobody is saying the toughest schedule makes us a good team. We are just trying to state our opinion that maybe we are not as bad as the record and rankings indicate. Having a rigid criteria is a choice you and others make. When some of us look back at 30 or more years of complete frustration following the Sox followed by 4 rings and a bunch of last place finishes, we can view the results in many various ways. For one, I'm thrilled with the JH era. It's way better than anything I saw, before. That tempers my opinion on where we are right now. I know you like to say, "Last year was last year," but that is just your view. Nobody likes last place finishes. I don't think I dislike them any more of less than you or others. It sucks- bigtime. I could add a "but..." here, but it won't get us anywhere we haven't already been. "Better than they really are" is a subjective view. Where we go from here is largely affected by where you think we are, right now.

Like you keep saying, "I never said it did."

YES, of course! (See how easy it is to answer with a question.)

Your memory does not go back to 2020? JBJ- 5th in PAs Chavis-7th Pillar 8th Peraza 9th Dalbec 10th Plawecki 11th Arauz 12th and Lin 14th The pitching was even worse... Perez 1st in IP Weber 3rd PValdez 4th Mazza 5th Godly 6th Brewer 7th Brasier 8th Barnes 9th Springs 10th Brice 11th (on pace for more than 55 IP over 162) Osich 13th Covey 14th Kickham 15th Stock 16th Walden 17th Hart 18th (on a pace for about 30 IP over 162!) Look at where Bloom started from.

Can you answer my question? Would a repeat of 2021 be enough?

A fair opinion, for sure. Some see more context and nuances than others, when it comes to assigning blame. Was Bloom responsible for 2020? If you say, no, then there is an acceptance of more than W-L as the final and only gauge of success or failure. Of course 2021 and 2022 did not have all the context that 2020 had, but the world is not always so black or white to some of us. .

By an infinite factor. TRADE CASAS! Bring BOBBY DEE BACK!