moonslav59

I know. I'm for forcing them to spend not rooting for them to save.

No matter what we do with Houck, just keep him at the one slot you choose and add a SP or RP'er accordingly. Kluber or Fulmer will not break the bank. Hell, we could add both and trade Dugo for RH'd RF'er and be much better off.

Unless the guy is under control for 4+ years or can be extended to that.

Good point, and any scout that was estimating salary worth might have been going off the 2022 market prices- not this latest explosive one.

We all assumed when they said they'd "get better," it meant they'd spend up to the $80M line. I don't think it's Bloom choosing to not spend the remaining $40M. Maybe we trade for a big contract like A Garcia to get Lopeze without parting with a top 5 or 6 prospects, and then we'd still have enough for Kluber, but who knows, at this point.

No doubt, especially the JBJ trade and Diekman signing, but he did add Wacha, Hill, Strahm and Refsnyder- later McGuire outplayed Vaz the last 2 months of '22. He added Schreiber in '21, but he came through in '22. It was not really his moves and non moves made, last winter, that was the major cause or even a minor cause of the decline- it was more about vet declines and injuries.

Why not? It's better than wallowing in misery for a few more months. Hey, we play 24 less games vs the AL East. We are stacked with LH'd bats at a time when lefties will be given a huge boost due to recent rule changes. We have 10-15 prospects or recent prospect call-ups looking to get a significant chance to shine in 2023. We don't need even half to shine to see a big impact. We can't know for sure what will happen in 2024, but I firmly believe the odds are we will improve at... 1B 2B (assuming Story stays there) 3B LF CF RF DH Closer Set up man Pen depth Hopefully stay close to even... C SP4 SP5 SP depth after 5 Pretty clear decline... SS SP1 SP2 SP3 Maybe we can do something to lessen the blows at these 4 slots, but I'm doubtful we can move any, except maybe SP3 into the equal or plus column, but it doesn't look horrible to me- just disapointing.

To me, without a hard cap, which I don't think we see in 5 years, they need to make the teams busting over the line and staying there pay an absurd tax, give it the bottom teams, but force them to spend it on players by putting a floor on the low end and making that floor go up by $10M a year.

That number has to shatter the past record for next year's budgets. Astounding!

So, Mayer for Lopez and berti?

Umm.... had we made the playoffs, we'd have been called wrong.

Yup, and I said at the time, the worst part was the money aspect, when we were looking at a very tight squeeze to stay under the line.

All along we said, get something for Nate and Bogey beyond just a comp pick, and then we end up with 2 picks after the 4th round rather than after the 2nd- further screwing the pooch.

Not many players age well after 30. It is likely Vaz will be better than McGuire in 2023, but maybe not beyond. Maybe Wong will be so much better than Plawecki, it all evens out or even becomes a plus, sooner than 2024. The staff-handling aspect or catchers may be more important than ever in 2023. We ended up basically trading Vaz, Groome and Nortcut. Vaz was going to be a FA we obviously had no intention of bringing back. Groome was probably going to be left unprotected on Rule 5, if Ward was. Going forward, we added... McGuire E Valdez Abreu Ferguson Rosier I have to think we look better, now, because of those trades.

Well said, and one can argue we were right in hindsight, only.

Looks like a big lie. I can't believe he thought we were going to do more, this winter. I realize the market surge for the best player made the $80M many of us though could buy us 3-4 big players turn into hopes for maybe 2-3, and the reality of just Yoshida. Look, I get it. I'm pissed, too. We still have $40M on the table, and the table is full of just scraps. This was the plan they felt "made us better?" There are no explanations, except that it's been one long sham since the first time they said we were going to try and "be competitive." That was, what, 2 years ago? I'm not defending Bloom, here, but this is coming from the top. The top would not allow any splurges, this winter, and that makes it impossible for me to think they could never have truly believed we'd be better. On the flip side, and I know we are all pissed, and maybe some want to wallow in the mire for much longer than I do, I am going to try and be optimistic about the extended future and also enjoy watching the kids come up, this year. This is not taking Sox brass off the hook, and maybe it is just how I cope with frustration and anger. (I hate letting if fester, but they are making it so hard to move on.) I'm curious about how well McGuire and Wong will do, and if catcher defense and staff handling matters as much as I think it does. I'm dying to see if Casas is the real thing and actually not see buffoon defense at 1B, this year. I'm hoping Story makes his $140M/6 deal look like the deal of the decade. I'm excited to see what Devers will do, now that he has reached peak prime. I'm dreaming that Arroyo can play a full season. I think E valdez may surprise many of us. The Yoshida addition is a big question mark, but his approach has me feeling positive anticipations. I'm a big Kike fan, and hope he can bounce back from a bad year and stay healthy for 2023. I don't like Dugo in RF, but I like the look of an .800+ platoon of Dugo & Ref. Maybe that outweighs the drop in RF D. We'll see, I'm loving the pen more than even the 2018 one, when Kimbrel was a pins and needles closer, especially at the end of '18. I'm very hopeful about Bello, Mata, Kelly and German. I'm thinking 1-2 might shine from Walter, Crawford, Murphy, Winckowski or Seabold. That's 9 young pitchers with varying levels of promise and skillsets. I'm done "hoping" for Sale to start 25+ games, but he might? If he doesn't, maybe he and Paxton can combine for 25+ or even 33. I like Pivetta as our #5, but he has to stay at #5, or it won't be that pretty, I'd like to see Houck given one role and keep him there. I have my preference, but even if they choose the other option, just stick with it! I'm expecting good things from him. Maybe Barnes and or Taylor shine, again. There is a lot, here to look forward to watching, if you choose to want to be optimistic about. This isn't the same as saying be optimistic about winning even 90 games, but there could be a lot of fun things to watch. (No, I'm not going for the Sox PR job, but I'm not going to be miserable all winter long, either.)

I did not say you were the only one. I do remember you saying Bogey has a no trade clause, which was correct, but had we traded JD and Nate and asked Bogey if he wanted to shed his QO and go to a team in the playoffs, I think he'd have agreed. Yes, I quit, then, I'm not proud of it. I'm usually one of the last to bail. Seems like many have quit, now and with many good reasons, and my point is if we had "quit" at the deadline, we'd be better off, now. Can I now say my position back then was "rightfully so?" of is that phrase only to be used by you. I was wrong about a lot, last year and before. I was right about how horrific the JBJ trade was and many of the other moves we both disliked from day one. It turns out many of us were right that the minute we signed Story, Bogey's departure was as near a sure bet as can be. I was right about the 2022 having no chance at a ring, and being the first one to think that does not make me any smarter. Of course, on paper and with hopes of so many returning players from the IL, we still had a technical chance. What I felt was we had no chance for a ring. I'm not a believer in the playoffs-are-a-crap-shoot crowd, and this year nearly proved me wrong on that position, too, but to me, any slight chance of pulling off what the Phillies just did was outweighed by how badly not resetting would hurt us AND how much better off we'd have been this winter had we strengthened the roster further by adding pieces via trades of JD, Nate, Wacha, Hill and B ogey, if he accepted. Now, we look screwed and Henry & Bloom are to blame for not doing what most did not want him to do, this summer- among many other things, of course.

My guess is, he "starts spending" like the ole days, next winter. Just a guess. I'm not sure how the fans will tolerate it. It got pretty bad, this past season and exploded after the Bogey departure. One big step would be to extend Devers by opening day or shortly afterwards. Adding 2-3 from Kluber, Conforto, Gallo and Andrus would help partially patch a few holes up, perhaps enough to make us WC competitive in '23, but that's a long shot. It appears their "secret plan" was to shoot for 2024 or 2025, all along. Maybe the honestly felt they could stay competitive or semi-competitive enough along the way to keep fans from bailing, but their efforts have been half-assed, which has actually made things worse. Their way on conveying their plans to the fans and media is about as bad as I've ever seen a team be. To me, it seemed, and still seems like we have been steadily building up the farm and increasing the amount of young, cost-controlled players on the 40 man roster for 3 straight years, but we kept getting in our own way by clinging to to the false hopes of winning it all in in 2021 or 2022. They didn't believe it themselves, but they tried to sell it to us. I know, I know, we were just a few plays from making the WS in 2021, so how can I say "false hopes?" That's a good argument against my positions, but all these non moves to keep us temporarily semi-competitive has sabotaged the long term plan, which I think was at the heart of the Bloom hiring. Where do we go from here, the right now? I'm not sure, even they know.

Yes, many did, and that was part of the reason, IMO, we did not trade JDand or Nate. I get the fact there were other reasons, but IMO, if they knew the fans would get over trading Nate and JD at the deadline, fairly quickly, they be gone. It's just my opinion, and many disagree. You bashed Bloom and the flawed the team all year. When I agreed about the team being so flawed we had no chance, and was one of the first, if not the first to jump ship, you defend the team as looking like they had a chance. Pick a side and stick to it. You know we had no chance, and I know you know.

No matter how much I simplify it for you, you still totally miss my point. The "crybaby" statement was about upset fans that forced Bloom & Co. to not do even a mild sell-off, unless you count Vaz as such. It wasn't meant as an accusatory thing other than towards Sox management for letting them alter what should have been done. Later, when yo started crying about me using the term crybaby, I called you one, and the shoe clearly fits, because here you are still at it. I also said both sides cry and listed things I cry about. That's "accusatory?" LMAO!

One other part to building up a farm- not trading away any top farm assets. He also added Whitlock, Kelly and German, and not by having teams that finished low in the standings.

I actually wanted Maeda, but I'll take pitching over everyday, if close to even in value.

Or, Moncada at 2B

Basically, my point, this past summer. The brass was too afraid of pissing off the fans by working to reset, and ended up making them very happy, this winter. I blamed it on "crybaby fans," and took a lot of grief on the semantics, but the theory seems as right now as it did, then. Where did it get us? Just stick to the long term plan and do what's best for the team. Fans get over unpopular moves, as long as you win. Now, we got neither. Not only would staying under the tax line, this season given us more budget flexibility, we'd have gotten two comp picks after the 2nd round not the 4th round, next draft. They screw up when the start changing the plan mid-stride. I'm with you. Stick to the plan, but it sure does suck, they blew a chance to be much better in 2023 on the way to even better things afterwards. Now, I'm hearing people talking tanking.

Maybe the reason we haven't spent more, so far, is they plan on extending Devers, starting in 2023, so the AAV is lower, later on, when we plan to reset.