moonslav59

Gausman was certainly a viable option, and there were a few posters who suggested we try hard to sign him. I don't see him as an ace, but he is certainly a big step up from the Klubers, Richards and Perezes of the world. $22M was not a ton of money, and 5 years is not the 7 we gave Price. At this point in the Sox budget outlook, I don't think the 5 years would be a major concern. They could have done it, but I think they just didn't value him that highly, or near enough to overpay by a little more than what they felt he was worth. In hindsight, we could have paid the $22M and reset by not signing ... $10M Kluber $7M Duvall and maybe no Mondesi trade or Joely signing. I believe this would have left us very close to the tax line, depending on what site you use. Had we known Duran would look like this, no Duvall would have been a serious option.

I have said this has been one of my disappointments with Bloom. I think a major reason we hired him was the rays track record at finding low-priced players who perform above expectations, because we knew the budgets were going to be tight for a few years. He did find a few: Arroyo, Kike I, Renfroe, Schreiber, Refsnyder, Whitlock and a few others- some off to good starts, this year, but not as much as I expected. Too few were pitchers, although Wacha, hill and Strahm looked good, last year, and Wink has turned it around, so far.

I meant in 2021, instead of the guys we signed. About this year's signings, for every Gausman and Bassitt, there are 2 or more Rodon & Verlanders.

Me too, and I'm not backing off my statements that included these phrases... "Make or break winter" "His defining moment" "This is now Bloom's team." That being said, I really did not like any of the big FA pitchers, last winter, so I was okay with not signing Rodon, Verlander, deGrom and some of the other big names, but there were trades made, and he could have blown TB away with an offer for Eflin- not that he is an ace or that I knew he was going to look real good to start 2023. I also don't blame him for not signing Nate to more than the QO he offered him. This does not take him off the hook. he obviously thought he could make up for our short-comings in the rotation by beefing up the O and pen. Let's see, if it works. I do think the rotation showed some promise-perhaps too much promise and not enough actual recent results by the pitchers vying for a slot in the 2023 rotation. I n some ways, the rotation looked more promising that it did in March 2021 and March 2022. 1. We had all tired of hoping for Sale's return and many felt that even if he returned for 24+ GS'd, his level might be as a 3rd starter, at best. 2. Paxton? Kinda the same outlook as Sale. 3. Pivetta was viewed as a solid and reliable #5 SP'er that could be okay as a #4, but no better. 4. Kluber was old, but had shown signs of being a good #3. He had more and better recent success than Richards, Perez, Wacha and maybe Hill had before we signed them. 5. Bello had a pretty nice ceiling and finished strongly in 2022. 6. Whitlock was coming off an injury, but had been our best 2021-2022 pitcher. 7. Houck was also coming off an injury and was just about as good as Whitlock from 2021-2022. 8. Interestingly, 2 of our best 2023 pitchers were viewed with the most skepticism in March 2023: Winckowski & Crawford. (they started 26 games, combined in 2022.) 9. Mata, Walter and Murphy offered some glimmer of hope from the farm as ML ready or near ML ready pitchers who had success in 2022 at WOO. That was over 10 pitchers- back in March. I guess Bloom hoped we could find 5 in quicker fashion.

How is providing another example "arguing?" You mentioned needing to go back 75 years to find one, and I found one that pitched less than 15 years ago. I didn't even look to see if there were more. I agree that the numbers are very small. I was just adding some information.

Agreed, but he was small and aged well.

I really think Bloom's SP choices have been made with the budget in mind, but I think there is one significant factor above the budget, particularly the long term budget, and that is TIMING. I think he chose shorter term deals, because the rest of the roster was not good enough to make "the big push." Sure, he could have pooled all the money we spent on shorter term rentals and gotten one better, longer term pitcher 2-3 years ago, but by the time the team was going to be ready for ring competition, that starter would be 2-3 years older, and probably not as good, anymore. I hated the $5-10 bridge starters, but I understood why that was the choice... UNTIL, last winter. Bloom had the budget and a pretty strong and deep foundation with several prospects very near MLB readiness in the wings. IMO, last winter was "the time," but it seems they may feel next winter is- maybe even the one after. Maybe signing one pitcher at $13-15M x 3 years back in 2021 would have worked better, but IMO, the 2 guys (Wacha & Hill) he added, last winter worked out pretty well. The funny thing is, the year we did well, 2021, the two (Richards & Perez) he added sucked. 2021: Richards $10M + Perez $6M 2022: Wacha $7M + Paxton $6M + Hill $5M 2023: Kluber $10M + Paxton $4M What one pitcher could we have signed for $48M/3? ($16M x 3)

Well, we gained a half game on 3 division rivals, which may not have ever happened, this year. We did lose a half game to our closest rival- the Yanks. We are... -1.0 NYY & TOR -4.0 BAL -7.5 TBR In the WC race, all 3 other ALE teams hold all 3 slots, with HOU between us and NYY and TOR +3 BAL 0 NYY 0 TOR -0.5 HOU -1.0 BOS -2.5 LAA -3.5 SEA -4.5 CLE/DET

I totally agree. And then you have a guy like Ted, who certainly had a natural gift but also worked super hard at maximizing his potential. He seemed to have instincts, ability and skills, but which was which and how much of each created who he was? There is no answer. Trying to just define these terms could take pages and pages of back and forths.

I was pointing out how well a 6-0 170 pound pitcher aged. I used a comp, most are very familiar with. If an 80 year old maddux is better was better than all our starters, it does tell a story.

Ok, "as good or better" than all our starters.

Bloom does not strike me as the type of guy that reaches out to GMs to offer big packages of top prospects for an ace or a young and possible ace-to-be, but who knows? I was convinced Ben was going to make a big trade or two, right before he was replaced, but I'll never know on that one. It's hard to imagine parting with Mayer, when SS seems like our second biggest hole, next to ace. Romero is farther away. I had mentioned Casas, last year, but I'm not sure how many teams trade an ace for a 1B prospect, even with his "value" being very high, according to several sites and ranking lists.

It seems like we all know guys who just seem to pick up a sport easily and naturally, without much effort. I'm not trying to define "instincts" as not involving effort and practice, and it is a hard term to understand. To me, anticipation is a big part of baseball "instincts," but even that can be viewed as a skill- like an defender watching pitch location, bat angle and timing of the swing to figure out what direction the ball will likely be hit. Maybe he begins leaning that way before the hit. On the batting end, I think so much is related to eyesight and and the brain's ability to recognize spatial things and moving objects. Is that a skill, an ability or an instinct?

True, but I was talking the last 4-5 years of Maddux vs what each Sox pitcher has given us, this year- in totality.

Maybe 1999 was close to a quarter century, but 2005-2009, not so much. True, Maddux was not great in those years, but he was better than all our SP'ers are, right now, just 15 years ago.

Drohan's start at Woo was not impressive: 5IP, 4H, 5ER, 3BB, 6K Woo won 10-9. 3-5 Alfaro HR & two 2Bs 2-5 Hamilton HR (7th) 3-5 Dalbec Abreu 2 BB Allen 2 BB and 23rd SB in 23 att POR lost 4-3 in 12 Gambrell (Beni trade) now has a 1.50 ERA (6 IP, 2H, 1ER, 0BB, 8K) 1-5 Kavadas HR (6th) 2-5 Yorke 2-5 McDonough GRE won 5-4 (lots of 1 run games) Encarnacion 5IP, 4H, 1ER, 0BB, 4K 2-5 Mayer 2-4 Bonaci 2B & BB 2-4 Jordan SAL lost 5-4 2-4 Castro 2-4 Feliz 0-4 Anthony BB

Age 33-42: 34 GS/yr 3.69 ERA 1.189 WHIP 3.9 K:BB

Just saying, you don't have to go back 70 years. Maddux turned 33 in 1999. Those next 5 years: 34 GS per year 3.24 ERA (136 ERA+) 1.167 WHIP 3.40 FIP 4.03 K:BB

Best Records in MLB and SP ranking by fWAR 1. TBR 10 2. BAL 12 3. LAD 6 4. ATL 4 5. TEX 8 6. TOR 14 7. AZ 21 8. HOU 5 9. MIL 26 10. NYY 11 11. BOS 23 12. MIN 2 13. PIT 7 14. MIA 18 15. LAA 13 Top Ranked Rotations with losing records: 1. SEA 3. PHI 9. CHC 15. CLE 16. CIN 17. SDP

Littell let up the winning run for the Mets vs TBR. The O's lost, as well. We will pick up a 1/2 game vs NYY or TOR, tonight, but lose a half to the other.

Greg Maddux was 6-0 170.

By the end of the season, we should know if we trust Duran to be the FT CF'er, allowing us to let Kike ($10M) and Duvall ($7M) go without replacing them via free agency. Passing on Kluber's option seems a cinch, as of now. Mondesi will likely be gone, too. I've talked about Bloom's first duty being to repair and rebuild the 40 man roster depth and beyond (to the farm,) and he has largely done that, even at the expense of all the tireless 1 year patch signings and not addressing the top of the rotation, but one can ask, "Why add an ace 2-3 years before the team is ready to go for it all?? What I like about our 2024 (and beyond) roster look is that most of the positions, except the rotation, has more than one hopeful candidate as well as long term hopes. (The OF is a bit weak on ML ready depth.) C: Wong & McGuire (Hickey) 1B: Casas & Turner, plus a less hopeful Dalbec (Jordan/Kavadas) 2B: [story?] EValdez & Arroyo (Yorke & Bonaci) SS: [story] Chang & Reyes (Hamilton & Mayer/Romero) 3B: Devers Forevers should be all we need (Koss & Paulino) LF: Yoshida (Rosier) CF: Duran (Rafaela & Bleis) RF: Verdugo & Abreu DH: Turner The pen looks fine, despite having some aging RP'ers in the key closer and set-up roles. Short: Jansen & Martin Schreiber & Joely (Mills & Fernandez) Mid/Long: Houck, Whitlock (SP?) & Pivetta (SP?) Wink & Crawford (Mata, Walter & Murphy) The big gaps- the rotation: 1. _____ 2. Sale 3. _____ 4. Bello 5. _____ maybe Whitlock or Pivetta (Drohan & ______) 3. ____

Something will happen, this year that gives Crawford another chance at starting. I once had hopes that just one from Mata, Walter and Murphy could fill a 4 or 5 slot, well, but those hopes have taken a severe hit. Drohan brightens that hope up, some, but you are right, we need to bolster the rotation, and to put it bluntly, I'm pissed off we keep building at the 3-4 slots in hopes we find a #2. At some point we need to shoot for a number 1 and maybe end up with a 2. Maybe it is part of "the plan," but the idea is to wait until the rest of the roster is in place that makes it a team that is an ace away from being a top contender. I don't think any of us have felt we have been that close since 2018 or pre 2019. Your graphic shows the rest of the team is taking shape, so maybe next winter, or this deadline will be the time we make that serious move.

We were 52-34, last year outside our division. That's a 98 win team projected over 162 games. I know some posters don't want to hear about that, and it's true, we need to beat teams in our division, and pass at least 1 to make the playoffs, but a losing record? Just the schedule change alone gets us to .500 or better.

Playing way less ALE games was a big part of my belief we'd win much more, this year. We did very well, last year vs non ALE teams, and we got better, on paper. It seemed simple, to me, but the season is far from over, and I could be proven wrong, again.