moonslav59

If we sign Giolito, I'll lose some faith in Brez.

The Expos went 81-81> 81-81>85-77 to 71-90 his last year in MON. If that is "okay," you should be thrilled with Bloom's record. Montreal, also went from 7th lowest payroll to 12th lowest in his 2nd and third year, which indicates he was allowed to spend more than his first year. With the Marlins, he was allowed to spend a lot. 27th in their first & second years in MLB (1993-5) 17th in his 4th season 7th in the 1997 championship season. He spent big on several FAs. When the team cut payroll, like the Sox did after 2019, the Marlins went... 54-108 64-98 79-83 76-86 They never reached .500, when he was not allowed to spend. Okay, he built up the foundation, but nobody wants to hear that about Bloom, now. He, then joined the Tigers. That team was in rebuild mode, as they were 66-96 (20th highest payroll) the year before he took over. The Tigers went... 55-106 in 2002 (19th in payroll) 43-119 in '03 (25th in payroll- showing it's hard for him to win w/o spending, too) 72-90 (23rd in '04) 71-91 (15th in '05) The spending larger had begun, followed by winning... 95-67 (lost WS) 14th in spending is not mega spending, but he did sign a couple FAs) 88-74 (9th in '07) Spent more than '06 and went backwards. 74-88 (3RD IN SPENDING and a losing record.) 86-77 (5th in spending) 81-81 (6th in 2010) 95-67 (lost 1st rd) 10th in spending 88-74 (lost WS) 5th in Spending gets him to the WS. 93-69 (lost 1st rd) 5th 90-72 (lost 1st rd) 5th 74-87 (4th in spending, and he was canned in AUG of 2015.) Did his time in DET prove he can win without spending large? Please, don't take this as dissing DD. I love the job he did with the Sox and have zero regrets. He gave us the best 3 years in a row in my lifetime. I am just not convinced he could have done wonders with the 2020 team and budget. Better than Bloom? Sure/maybe. Better in 2021? Maybe. Better in 2022 and 2023? Probably.

Lugo was not traded.

Sox get the 12th pick in the draft. 1. CLE (2% odds) 2. CIN (0.9 %) 3. COL (18.3) 4. OAK (18.3) 5. CWS (14.7) 6. KCR (18.3) The top 3 teams by the odds missed out on the 1 & 2 picks. 7. STL 8. LAA 9. PIT 10. WSH 11. DET 12. BOS 13. SFG 14. CHC 15. SEA 16. MIA 17. MIL 18. TBR 19. NYM (dropped 10 due to going over the 3rd tax) 20. TOR 21. MIN 22. BAL 23. LAD 24. SDP (down 10) 25. NYY (down 10) 26. ATL 27. PHI 28. HOU 29. AZ 30. TEX

A case could be made Ohio St. belongs. Their only loss was by 3 at the number 1 team's home filed.

I get that. My point was they knew all this before this past weekend, and could have made their lives easier by dinging FSU 1-2 weeks ago, or whenever their QB got hurt. They looked silly dinging them after beating Louisville.

McGuire may turn out okay (or be DFA's.) Rosier may surprise. He could have gotten much more, if he had the balls to fire sale it.

I understand your point. I guess we are arguing semantics. I don't think making 5 moves is dithering. I think he should have made bigger moves and better moves, but he made 5 decisions. Dithering is avoiding decisions.

I wouldn't mind him going a few extra batters, here and there, but we have 4-5 guys that can do that anyway. I like him as the #3 short guy after Jansen and Martin.

I do, too. I also worry about Giolito staying the same.

Is he replacing Whitlock, despite the "stretching out" comment? If not, now we have 5 "tweeners:" Pivetta Crawford Houck Whitlock Winckowski (Lugo?) (Murphy?)

That's worse than Houck and others on the Sox, but I'm wanting him as my 4th starter or "third best SP'er we add, this winter.) I would not mind Lugo as our #3. if Yamo was our #1.

1. I never said I expect the same stats. I would expect some regression from him and any pitchers coming here form a better defensive team (or 29 others.) 2. Something close to those numbers would be way better than what we saw, this year. 3. I realize half the numbers I posted were as a RP'er, but that does not take away from the fact that he has pitched real well for 3 seasons. 4. Yes, it's a risk putting him as a SP'er, again, but signing Giolito, Flaherty or some others are risky as hell, too. I like Lugo better than some of the other tier 3 SP'ers available, now.

Again, I totally agree on the idea that he should have sold more and got under the tax line. I would not call making 5 trades "dithering." He was decisive, but wrong on his choices. To me, dithering is doing nothing or next to nothing, or wasting time on near trades or fearing pulling the trigger on bigger deals, not made.

Brez should know what the limit is for JH, by now, so if we are still in the hunt, that should mean JH is okay with a mega deal for a SP'er- finally.

He wasn't Mr. Dithers in '22. That was my point. He wasn't successful is another issue.

The committee members are idiots. They should have ranked FSU 5th or 6th, before the weekend.

I think he's worth $30/2 or $40/3. I just hope they don't see him as the best SP'er we get.

2021-2023 Seth Lugo 134 Games (26 GS, all in 2023) 258 IP 3.56 ERA (113 ERA+) 3.80 FIP 1.211 WHIP per 9 IP: 9.2 K/2.5 BB Out of 137 pitchers with 250+ IP, Lugo places... 28th SIERA (just behind Gallen and ahead of cease & Verlander) 38th in xFIP at 3.67 (just behind Sonny Gray and Nate & ahead of Morton & Cease) 45th in ERA- at 88 45th in K-BB% (just behind Webb and ahead of Cease)

I know Lugo does not have a long history as a SP'er, but he did fine as one, last year: 26 GS (146 IP) 3.57 ERA (115 ERA+) 3.83 FIP 1.20 WHIP

I hope that's not the extent of being "aggressive," and I actually like Lugo more than some.

I'm fine with the long term plan. I just wish they'd have been upfront about it. I also wish they'd have not tried the halfway approach. I call it "half ass." Had they just spent 2-3 years in complete rebuild mode, we'd be way better off, right now. Half-ass extends the rebuild.

Trading Bello for Cease would not work for us. If the CWS are demanding pitching in return, I'm not sure we can meet their needs. Crawford and Romero would likely be turned down. Crawford & Yorke?

The thing is, he could be 100% telling the truth and really believe he will make significant upgrades, but if he keeps going to JH with some big deals to be offered, and JH keeps saying no, he could be wrong. It may not be a lie, but it could be part of a further sham, with him being the set-up stooge.

On the pitching: really good pitching is very expensive. The 2020 and 2021 team had so many holes that spending large and long on a very good SP'er would have meant neglecting other high need slots. I get the argument about not adding many promising pitching prospects, but I sympathize with the choice to draft the best chance players, who are usually non pitchers. Bloom did add some pitching: Whitlock, Pivetta, Winckowski, Schreiber, Bernardino, Campbell, Kelly, Robertson along with some decent rentals like Wacha, Hill and Strahm. Not adding an ace-type pitcher left a gaping hole, and I would have preferred he added one, instead of Story and/or Yoshida. The restricted winter spending budgets were a big part of our lack of success, but that does not take Bloom off the hook. He hoarded his top prospects, too much, IMO, but if they turn out being special, maybe someday we'll be thankful he held on to them.