moonslav59

The "good times" are certainly becoming more spread out. In the last 21 years, here are some of the best teams- by record and playoff advancement, only: Red= after 2013 Group A 108-54 (WS win 4-1, 1st place) 2018 98-64 (WS win 4-0, the first in forevah, 2nd place) 2004 96-66 (WS win 4-0, 1st place) 2007 97-65 (WS win 4-2, 1st place) 2013 Group B 95-67 (2nd place, lost ALCS 4-3) 2003 95-67 (2nd place, lost ALCS 4-3) 2008 92-70 (2nd place, lost ALCS 4-2) 2021 Group C 93-69 (1st place, lost ALDS 3-1) 2017 93-69 (1st place, lost ALDS 3-0) 2016 95-67 (2nd place, lost ALDS 3-0) 2005 95-67 (2nd place, lost ALDS 3-0) 2009 Non Playoff Group: 90-72 (3rd place) 2011 89-73 (3rd place) 2010 86-76 (3rd place) 2006 84-78 (3rd place) 2019

Sounds familiar. At least Ben got a ring during the last time it happened.

Agreed, with more emphasis on disgruntled.

Other teams have passed us. JH stopped spending from the Sale, Bogey and Nate extensions ('18-'19 off season) to the Story signing in spring '22. That three year period was longer or "turtling" more than any stretch of his tenure in Boston. I would not call 2022 and 2023 an example of turtling. Our 2022 CB Tax budget was the third highest in Sox history and just $3M from #2. The 2023 budget was 4th highest, even higher than DD's first 2 years and by $17M and $30M! No, he has not gone all in, but he did go over the tax line once and came relatively close, last year. The Devers extension was signed, last year. That kicks in in 2024. That is no turtle. I'm not making excuses for JH, but he did begin spending more and more, starting with Story. He just hasn't kept up with about 5-10 teams that passed us. He may need to for us to ever get relevant, again. He's fallen behind the times. He may never try to get into the now, again. If he goes up to the first tax line ($237M), this year, it will be the third highest payroll, ever. If he goes to the second line ($257M), which he may decide to do, it would be the highest ever by about $13M. It might still not be enough. $256-257M might get us back into the top 4-6 in team budgets, but who knows, these days?

My point was made in relation to an ongoing conversation, whereby I made assumption that if we added 2 SP'ers via free agency, we would not necessarily have to trade a top 3 prospect, this winter. I have already said many times, I do not expect anything, this winter. I think the sham will continue. I'll believe it when I see it, and on and on. I hope we add 3 SP'ers, but I think the odds on that are zero to a half percent. I would not bet on us adding 2 quality SP'ers. I am NOT assuming we get two good SP'ers. I don't even expect Monty. Maybe we get Lugo and Lorenzen. That's about what I expect.

Stunning! His retirement plan is the best in the history of any sport.

You do know, JH stopped spending several times under Theo, Ben, DD and Bloom.

Who said that?

Okay. You can say it. I can't. BTW, I agree on our highest needs.

Does Werner have a company credit card?

I'm not pencilling in any of those top 3 prospects, but I do think there is a very good chance 2 are very helpful by 2025. Add rafaela, Yorke, Abreu, Wikelman and perales, and I'm thinking counting on 3 is not a stretch. The problem is, we don't know which 3, so that is why waiting to see what the big hole is, later, makes some sense. Look, I'm all for going all in, now. Spend up to the $77M line AND trade a top 3 prospects with a couple tier 2 guys and get another top player with several years of team control. We'll still have enough prospects giving us a boost in 2025, plus some big contract money coming off the books that will allow us to sign more players in 2025, and still possibly reset, if that is the plan.

I am 100% on board with trading for an ace. That has been my mantra for years. My point was only based on the assumption we added 2 very good SP'ers by free agency. Hell, I'm all for adding 3 SP'ers. I'd sign 2 and trade for one, but that ain't happening. I'd be fine, if we signed Monty and Imanaga, plus add a 2Bman and maybe a catcher or OF upgrade. That might get us near the 2nd line and nicely positioned for a stronger run in '26 with a 2 or 3 of out top 5-6 prospects making a big impact. We give trading a prospects a little more time, and then fill the biggest need at the deadline or next winter for "that final piece." That's not saying I'm against trading one now. I'd like to keep all 3, but I also want some top experienced talent, too. Trading now or later is fine with me- just not for rentals.

Agreed, and I have said that about Burnes, but if he won't extend, then hold off a while, right? (I sure wish we had traded for and extended Castillo, which I argued, at the time. His deal looks like a steal, now.)

So, after telling me not to compare to 2023, you did.

But me saying we should hold off trading prospects for as long as possible, if ever, elicits criticism from you.

So, the "FULL THROTTLE" is just more sham talk?

I do think Story at .750 with GG defense gets us a lot closer the rest of the division as a whole, but we are not likely going to equal Gunnar Henderson or Franco. Bichette is not likely, either. Any major gain helps. We don't need to pass those ahead of us at every positions, but gaining at some and passing them at others can be enough. 2023 fWAR at SS 4.6 Henderson 4.6 Franco 3.8 Bichette 1.9 Volpe.

My thoughts are that upper brass is likely looking at 2025 as "the year," as our 3 top prospects should be here, by then, but they want to win, now, too. My idea is not to "plan on trading at the deadline." I'd rather we build a winner, now, via free agency and try to save the prospects for a big boost in '25 to '26, but if it looks like we can win at the deadline with one more key piece, maybe make a trade, then. Or, make it next winter. I'm not for trading a top prospects just for the sake of saying "We went for it all in 2024." If it means trading for Burnes and losing him to free agency after 2024, I'd rather wait.

"No sense." It is probably what will happen, IF WE ADD 2 SP'ers via free agency. You guys are missing that kep caveat.

Did you miss the first part? WOW! I said "We add 2 SP'ers," then maybe trade a top prospect at a later time. Why is that so absurd? When I mentioned adding 3 SP'er, you and others said it was a pipe dream. Now, you insist we trade a top prospect after signing 2 top SP'er. WOW, wow, WOW!

A GG-type SS that can hit .740-.760 is a big plus, especially over what we saw in 2023.

Looking over the updated soxprospects.com rankings, I have a few observations: 1. I really like our top 3, and think it might be the best we've had in a very long time. 2. The next 7 have some real hope, but too many questions to be on the same level as our top 3. (There is a big gap between #3 Teel and #4 Rafaela.) 3. I like #10 Cespedes more than the other 4-10. 4. There is probably a big gap between #15 Joh. Garcia and #16 Hickey, but maybe Hickey can play 1B and hit well enough. #17 Paulino is a clear step down from 11-15/16. 5. I think DHam is overrated at #21, but that group from 21-38 are all pretty much bunched up. 6. Sleepers after 38? #45 K Campbell, #50 C Rosier, #60 Song.

No. Why ask me that? Did I imply we should?

Later moves: We add two FA SP'ers, and maybe use a topo prospect in trade at a later time. Deadline? Next winter? We still use the farm for additions, just maybe later. I'm not worried about any Rule 5 guys we lost or might lose.

What is it with the Sox and injury-prone bargain basement additions?