jad

(What were you just saying about Kimbrel???)

I've wondered that too. It's such a strange and rare situation, they probably never thought of it, or at least never addressed it, since there are certainly many details of the CBA that prevent clubs from 'parking' players in the minors or punishing veterans by sending them down.

I believe if they bring him up AT ALL, they are responsible for the entire luxury tax,whether he stays up or not, no? i.e., they can't just bring him up on, say, a ten-day contract?

Exactly. That's what I just said. Probably wasn't clear. If he's in the minors, it doesn't count. But if he's traded and brought up, then all that money counts against the cap: whatever the other team pays him counts against them, and whatever part of his contract the RS pay to make the deal (say, agreeing to eat 50% of his salary) counts against the RS. That's why theRS won't trade him. At least, I think that's how it works.

I believe it does. Otherwise, he would have been gone long ago. If you could do such a trade, the millions counted against the salary cap would essentially disappear.

How about trading him for a relief pitcher? There's a guy playing for the Giants leading the league in ERA: 0.00. He's perfect through one inning--no one has even hit the ball out of the infield. Pablo something ...

My thinking is that stretching is both dangerous and useless (but it's pointless to argue, as I noted earlier). Leg endurance certainly matters (although hammy pulls often happen to football players , who should be in good shape, but maybe aren't? Interesting, I've almost never seen one by a basketball player or hockey player--both of whom have to be in good 'sprinting' shape; I have seen it happen to sprinters, who ought to be in great shape). When I watched Ortiz and manny, they warmed up by slow jogging--no stretching. And that's the latest recommendation I've heard. Of course, I say this as one who absolutely never stretches (here goes the 'self-laudatory anecdote' part)--I've been running, playing racket sports, golf, sailing, skating pretty much all my life (or at least, the last 60 years or so). I don't do any of them particularly well, but I've almost never been injured.

Why not send Nunez there? I mean really, what could possibly go wrong?

Stretching is b.s., unless you need to stretch (you're a ballet dancer), or you just woke up (like a dog). But we could probably have a debate about that, filled with self-laudatory anecdotes and condescending claims that everyone who disagrees with us is a fatso, or a moron, or has questionable sexual preferences.

Agreed! The fans, after being pretty good, now suck just as they sucked after game 1, or maybe as bad as they sucked when Grady Little left Pedro in, or perhaps when the ball went to Buckner, or like when Yaz came up in the winner take all game against Goose ...

Just saw it. That's ENTIRELY on Benitendi for not backing up. It's a routine play, no?

Anyone have a link to the inside the park HR? Hard to see how that's possible to CF at Fenway.

Ah! Missed it totally. Sometimes what I have to say is of such monumental import and significance that I really don't have time to concern myself with the inconsequential matter of its relevance.

Once again, posting seems like ethics: Anyone who spends less time on this Forum or takes it less seriously than we do is a pink hat. Anyone who spends more time on this Forum or takes it more seriously than we do really needs to get a life.

Ha! I do all I can to play like a 40 year old! Alas, for some damn reason, I always end up playing like someone 30 years older than that.

Yup. It's that pesky human input that so inconveniences claims of objectivity. I think our opinions on the value of stats are all very similar and can be summarized as follows: (1) anyone who does not rely on stats as much as we ourselves do is a Luddite of some sort and out of touch w/ the modern game. (2) anyone who values stats MORE than we do is a computer geek who doesn't know the first thing about baseball. It's pretty much the same way we view, say, ethics.

He could have waited to shake hands with JD and get passed by Hanley.

Beni! GO GO!!!! No no! Don't tag up!

Beni-- JUST STAND THERE! Maybe he'll hit it out.

Ah, right! I see it now. (Thanks for explaining this without heaping abuse on me, my lineage, and my knowledge of the game!)

Hey-- I still don't get it! And you're not allowed to "lol" your own joke.

Uh oh. That sure looked like the classic response to a hamstring pull to me.

There are two quite separate assertions in your response! Of course defensive metrics are better than "the eyes of a single fan"; who disputes that? [except maybe theself-appointed fan]. That strikes me as a rather low bar when the issue at hand is 'objectivity'. A really really really really low bar! really really really ... really low bar.

Not sure of that (a lot of the rhetoric above gets close). And if the standard is "better than the eyes of a single fan or official scorer," that's a pretty low bar. I don't think either the proponents of advanced stats or the worst sort of tobacco-chewing scout would dispute that.

That's likely because those who define and promote it work very hard to conceal the fact that there are many many "ask-the-human" type decisions and factors involved. No two balls hit are "the same" in nature; they are only "the same" when so perceived by a human eye and significant features (e.g., 'speed') defined as relevant by a human brain. The same goes for the definitions of atmospheric conditions, etc., and any number of refinements that could be build into these models. There are some types of 'neural network' types of analysis (insofar as I understand these!) that I believe can eliminate this 'ask-the-human' step, but UZR (at least from what I can tell) is not one of them. Mind you, I'm not opposed to this type of analysis, and it certainly beats the kind of approach critiqued and ridiculed so well in Moneyball (the scout's 'feel' for the game in particular!). But then, I'm not opposed to judging hitters by batting average either (or OBP or OPS). Statistics help. But few methods I've seen are completely objective (maybe the one my adolescent brother once used for a whole season: all he recorded over the year was a ratio for each AB: number of bases achieved vs. number possible. So 1-4 for a walk with no one on; 3-6 when a weak ground ball goes through the SS legs allowing the runner on second to score. No one, of course, either a traditionalist or a sabermetrician, would accept such a system as a standard on which to judge others).