Standing Room
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Everything posted by Standing Room
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Papelbon's in his early 30's and just starting to lose velocity and you think he's comparable to someone still getting it done as a 43 year old?
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Yeti sighting in practice! I'll believe it when I see it.
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Giving up more prospects and money for the flashy name with closer experience is not the answer. Been there, done that (Jenks, Bailey, Melancon, Hanrahan). Time to promote from within.
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You could, and it wouldn't surprise me if you did. But the truth is that Papelbon and Mo aren't comparable. Rivera is a once in a generation talent who's outperforming Papelbon at the age of 43.
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All the talk about our failures to find a closer since Papelbon has left seem to conveniently ignore the fact that we had issues with the closer role while Papelbon was still on the team . In 2009, Papelbon blew a save opportunity and got the loss in Game 3 of the ALDS, essentially ending our season. In 2010, Papelbon had a 3.90 ERA and blew 8 saves. And then in 2011, Papelbon blew two save opportunities in the last week of the season. And he again essentially ended our season on September 28th blowing a save and taking a loss. Just because the people we've brought in to replace Papelbon have struggled, doesn't mean it was the wrong move to let Papelbon walk. If we had just promoted our best relievers from within, we could have saved a lot of money and prospects. Why compound the problem by spending more money and prospects on a declining Papelbon?
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Jenks, Melancon, Bailey and Hanrahan were all acquired because we believed they had the "magical" ability to pitch the 9th inning. And look how that worked out. Imagine if we had promoted our best reliever from within to begin with. If we made Bard the closer rather than a starter, he might still be our closer now. Promoting Tazawa to closer is the right move, it's a waste to give up resources to acquire a "proven closer".
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Just curious, is there anyone who think Junichi Tazawa won't be a good closer?
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The Yankees actually lost ground playing the easy part of their schedule. They finish out the month with three more against the Rays, three against Texas and then three against the Orioles. I'm looking forward to seeing them fight with the Blue Jays for fourth place.
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6/20 Red Sox @ Tigers
Standing Room replied to Rdsxmbnt's topic in Mike Grace Memorial Game Thread Forum
You had a fun short little run, but you and your team no longer appear relevant. There's always next year bud. -
Phillies DO NOT want to trade Papelbon
Standing Room replied to Standing Room's topic in Other Baseball
Does this mean with Tazawa, the Sox are a 98 win team? Papelbon's never been worth more than 3.2 wins in any given season, and Tazawa is the better pitcher right now. -
2013 Draft Signing Thread
Standing Room replied to Standing Room's topic in Red Sox Minor League Talk
Yup. They lost last night and guess who logged on. -
Tazawa would be the obvious choice, he was the number one player being acquired in Yahoo fantasy baseball leagues this morning. And after last night, I can't say I blame Farrell for making the change.
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He'd be terrible. He's as bad if not worse than Wells offensively and defensively he's worth than Lyle Overbay in the outfield.
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Great post. And I think almost all of us are on the same page. iOrtiz disagrees, but he's more of an oldschool guy who wants a proven closer and I don't think anyone's going to change his mind. The topic has been discussed to death at this point, but I have a feeling the next time Papelbon or Bailey have a rough outing it will probably be re-hashed again.
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Yeah, Tazawa has great stuff. I don't know how you watch Tazawa pitch and not think he has great stuff. And the K/9 numbers, the velocity, the vertical and horizontal movement on his pitches all confirm that.
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Alright, I can respect that. I disagree with the fundamental principal that there's something special about pitching the 9th inning, many a good reliever (including Papelbon and Rivera) have transitioned seamlessly in to the role. But you've demonstrated that there is at least a thought process behind why you want Papelbon.
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OK, then what's wrong with Uehara? He has the magical ability to pitch the 9th inning and he has better numbers than Papelbon. Why is Papelbon worth $14 million and a prospect more than Uehara?
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If you want someone with closing experience, what about Uehara? He also has better numbers than Papelbon, and would not cost $14 million or prospets. Do you have anything to suggest that a solid set up man can't easily become a solid closer? Because I've got plenty of examples that would suggest they can - Grilli, Mujica, Balfour, Frieri, Perkins, Janssen and Holland. Even your boy Papelbon used to pitch in middle relief before Joel Pineiro had a bad outing.
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What awards?
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I agree 100%. I think teams tend to overspend on closers (look at Papelbon or Soriano's contracts or the Bailey or Melancon trade) because they think there's something magical about pitching the 9th inning as opposed to the 8th inning. Almost every time someone has taken a very good set up man and tried them out as the closer, they have become a successful closer. Grilli, Mujica, Balfour, Frieri, Perkins, Janssen and Holland are all great examples of closer who are doing well this year were set up men relatively recently. Rivera and Papelbon weren't closers when they first started pitching out of the bulllpen either.
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Let's compare the two pitchers then. Here are their numbers since Tazawa returned from TJS as a reliever. Tazawa - 1.89 ERA, 2.63 xFIP, 1.02 WHIP, 0.94 BB/9, 9.79 K/9, 0.59 HR/9 IP Papelbon - 2.30 ERA, 2.99 xFIP, 0.98 WHIP, 2.03 BB/9, 10.87 K/9, 1.01 HR/9 Am I missing something here? Tazawa appears to have performed better. So why is it that Papelbon would be worth a top 15 prospect and $14 million a year?
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All sarcasm and posturing aside, the issue boils down to this. Is Papelbon so much better than Tazawa that he is worth giving up a top 15 prospect and paying $14 million a year for, in the event that Bailey isn't able to be an effective closer? Yes or No.
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Thanks for getting everyone back on topic.
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Nine times out of ten when someone reverts to this, it's because they don't have much of an argument. Rather than bringing nothing to the table, why not discuss the actual point at hand - whether Papelbon is worth prospects and his salary? If someone thinks that he is, please make a case.
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If Middlebrooks doesn't start hitting, I'd allow him some more time in the "warming stage". I love that we have so much competition on this team for starting positions.
