Since this isn't a political discussion, I am not forced in to taking a side. Compromise is still ok. There is a vast difference between 80 and 140 as well as the obvious 0 to 80. I get your point but making it this way doesn't register well for me. Probably just me. I'm going to go with conditioning and overall fitness still possibly playing a role. it works better for me than simply saying manager stupidity. If I were to hang my hat on the way you have stated things, i guess that I could take this discussion right back to the youth league level where kids who have not reached puberty are actually experiencing TJ surgery. Throwing a ball repetetively for 12 months might just being taking its toll in general. i'm going with if your bullpen is weak, maybe you ought to try to get just that one more inning and maybe 10-15 more pitches out of your starter.