cp176
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Everything posted by cp176
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This I agree with. I guess my point would be that they don't really know yet what they have in Barnes and they are obviously concerned about their starting pitching. They know more than we do but a move to the pen for him now would be puzzling. Just another guess on my part but that's probably one of the reasons he was sent down.
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I could not find where anyone said that it would ruin him to move him to a relief role. I don't think that it would ruin him but I think that they need to determine who are likely to be their next couple of starters up before making a decision about him. If he looks like he has the potential to start early, it would seem odd that they would decide to use him in relief.
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I'll apologize for not looking this up first. Just a guess on my part that the majority of pitchers started off a starters. I think that that is safe to say. Many get moved to a relief role not necessarily based on team needs but based on where they are going to most successful. At some point in time maybe Barnes will be moved to the bullpen but hopefully only after there is an upgrade with respect to our 5 starters or the time comes when he appears ineffective as a starter. Moving him now would make no sense to him or the team's future. Eventually it might b right where he belongs.
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I think that I probably am like most fans in that I see the value in the use of metrics but I would not want to be the one compiling them all. I just read a couple of articles and a couple of things do puzzle me. I'm not being disagreeable or sarcastic here. I'm interested in your take. The first article talked about the luck factor and how metrics can be used to evaluate it. The second talked about how the strike zone seems to be lowering. How often do the people inputting the data have to change and update to try to account for changes like these? Umpires I would think are responsible for the lowering of the strike zone to a great extent and I guess I always saw luck as something that you really couldn't predict.
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I don't like the concept of young pitchers who have been starting pitchers in your minor league organization being bounced around if they have been successful. If the decision has been made that Matt Barnes is not apt to be successful as a starter then it may make sense to use him in the pen. I haven't read or seen anything saying that though. Starting pitching is quite often challenged in Boston. If he shows promise as a starting pitcher, I see know reason to use him in the bullpen.
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Thank heaven for the fact that they aren't trying to screw up another potential starting pitcher by using him in any type of relief situation.
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That is really what I was trying to and wanted to say. The stats are very important of course. We all know that. There are a few other things to consider as well.
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Oh I like it to. I appreciate the detail and the work that goes into compiling this data. I don't disagree with using it at all. It is another tool to use to help paint a picture. Doesn't paint the whole picture but it is certainly useful info.
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12 types of wrong - really - 12 types? 30 seconds? It takes me longer than that to find my wallet and keys. I realize how important it is to gather and use as much information as you can get before making decisions but at some point in time you have to sift through it all to come up with a best case scenario. I'm glad people do this type of work. I would certainly use this the information but I would pay to have it done. I like a little subjectivity also. That's how I see the world. Not much is either or for me. I try to understand people and their opinions. 30 seconds - really! I just read an article about the current Sox pitching staff and the predictions based solely on metrics for them. I was actually pleased to see that 2 different sites could vary in their predictions as much as they did. They even even have a way to include the luck factor using metrics.
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I was going to mention the hands - huge
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I do not dispute the fact that you have done a good job compiling this data. I just don't think that it could possibly be that black and white. What criteria was used to determine a catcher's ability to frame the plate? I think that there is great room for subjectivity here and it really boils down to what you like in a player as opposed to what these statistics show. I want that average pitch framer with a great arm who can hit. How many wins does that amount to when compared to a great pitch framer with a great arm who can't hit a lick? In a ideal setting, a catcher could do it all but they don't come along all that often.
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Is the actual rotation the worst in the last 10 Y?
cp176 replied to iortiz's topic in Boston Red Sox Talk
I agree with everything you said here except that maybe there is someone who might know what makes him tick. If they know, they have been doing a good job of keeping it a secret. I hope it works out. We are going to need him to stay healthy and consistently decent. -
Is the actual rotation the worst in the last 10 Y?
cp176 replied to iortiz's topic in Boston Red Sox Talk
Pedro seems to think that Bucchotlz pitching on opening day is indicative of him being considered the closest thing to an ace that the Sox have at present. Although I might not agree with Buccholtz over Porcello, I have to say that I do agree with Pedro that most pitchers who get the ball on opening day consider it an honor and one that is earned. If he thinks it is a big deal, i tend to think that it is as well. In his case, it is experience talking. -
I think that I agree with you. Minus the hitting, Vasquez was (is ) the real package. Framing, fielding the ball, and working with the p-staff. For me, what made him particularly special was his ability to keep baserunners from advancing. On a team filled with pitchers who really didn't do much of a job at keeping b - runners stationary, he was a bright light. his arm makes him tougher to replace than any of his other abilities.
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Thnx - agreed
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Connie Hawkins was the real deal!
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Most people realize I hope that stats do help to tell a complete story but they don't tell the whole story. They also certainly can tell the story that you want to hear as well. The catching subject once again has been beaten to death I realize but maybe having a great and accurate arm isn't as important as framing the plate and being able to work a pitching staff but the effects of a great arm often times will not show up in any stat. You can't measure what is going on in a baserunner's mind when he knows that he has to deal with a guy that can throw him out. Personally, I think that ability was (is) one of Vasquez's best assets.
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and Coco Crisp - boxing - your promotion (hopefully) etc. etc. etc. Look like a catchall to me.
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If they have not been taught to frame the plate they are not playing major league baseball. Some are better at it than others for sure. I would always take my chances with an average plate framer who can keep the ball in front of him and who can help to keep runners from advancing if he is a hitter as well. I truly understand the value of a great catcher but I do not consider losing Vasquez as all that significant. i feel badly for him. You've made your feelings for Vasquez well known. Thats good. I was looking forward to seeing him this year as well. I hope that he comes back but I don't feel that losing him is that big a deal.
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At least no one has suggested that this year's team will be a better hitting team than that 77 team. That ain't happening. Might be a wash on the mound though.
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I could do that youtube thing. That's what I was just doing - Larry Bird highlights. I'm technologically challenged and I think that every freakin catcher in mlb baseball knows how to frame the freakin plate. Some do it better than others. I still like a catcher who can throw runners out and help hold runners on first base. All these stats coming at me off the internet are rattling my brain. If a great defensive catcher who can't hit might be worth 2 extra wins then I'll take my chances with a slightly above average catcher with a good arm who can pound the ball and beat up opponents any day. That's my rant . Now I am off to bed. Ogden - Was this the thread where I was supposed to feel bad for our team because we lost Vasquez for an extended time? I am starting to sound like guys from Boston drive!
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Is the actual rotation the worst in the last 10 Y?
cp176 replied to iortiz's topic in Boston Red Sox Talk
If this years version hits like that 77 team, I would be very surprised. PLEASANTLY! -
Ray Culp and Rick Wise. Two pretty good ones in their day. I am on a personal crusade to not look up anything on the internet so I will just ask - I think that you will know. Didn't Reggie Smith go tho the Dodgers?
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If that is the case, he is a pretty good proven player I'd say. Castillo will get his chance soon enough to show what he can do, We have all seen what a healthy Victorino can do day in and day out at the major league level. If Castillo ever plays as well or better, I guess we are talking an all-star future for him someday. I'm very much in favor of a team playing its beat players. Victorino is one of their best players when healthy. Certainly their best outfielder. Castillo is fascinating for sure but we have seen what Victorino can do.
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Is the actual rotation the worst in the last 10 Y?
cp176 replied to iortiz's topic in Boston Red Sox Talk
A shutout! Guess he should have lead off more often. They also had Drysdale. Maybe they wanted to frighten opponents early with him. I'll go out on a limb here and say that if we had a young Koufax today, we wouldn't be to concerned about Buccholtz. A short career but one of the best for sure. I'm sticking with Porcello as my leadoff guy.