cp176
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Everything posted by cp176
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This is really starting to make me chuckle now. the FIELDING BIBLE - now that sounds pretty damn impressive for sure but Moon are you saying that this BIBLE shows how voters sometimes vary widely on their rankings? I'm looking at the info you have listed and I am seeing quite the discrepancy as well. Who you gonna believe these days? It just is not right when these folks who gather all this information and put it to the test can't be counted on to just agree!
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I'm really ok with your answer here. I am glad though that your use of the word probably tells me that you do see that the metrics very well might not tell us everything you want to know. Now before notin jumps in here please understand that I realize how important the use of consistent reliable statistical data is. In my world, it isn't a competition between observation and statistics. Use everything that you can.
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Of course it is notin. Not everybody gets listened to. Kind of looks as though the metrics being used can be brought to question from the looks of things as well.
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I think that the case might be that it would depend upon who you are listening to with respect to personal opinions. Do you really think Moon that there could possibly be this much of a discerepancy coming from two reputable statistical sources? My guess would be that you don't. If it is possible then anyone who thinks they are more informed than someone with an educated opinion is just kidding themselves. Nothing is foolproof I get that but really that much of a difference?
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If it is even possible that there can be this much discrepancy with respect to stats that you guys think are that reliable then does it not give a certain amount of credibility to the people who choose to rely on the eye test? Bogey is an average ss - JBJ is abut as good as it gets in center - JD really isn't all that bad in left. Come on.
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Oh boy - here we go. Nobody has labeled anybody here as anything other than you and one other. When I think of what an ace is Chris Archer's mug does not appear. A good pitcher - yes most of the time but an ace - really? Once again, no one has labeled Benintendi as great. He should be good I think though. You are getting a little off track here I think when you use Williams, Yastrzemski, and Rice to try to prove your point. My guess is that if they played in this era of feel good sports where lots of teams make the playoffs, we would have seen some titles for them all. Doesn't matter though, using these 3 to prove your point is what I consider to be foolish.
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It isn't necessarily about the time - that is a statistic - it is about the significance of the actual move that is made. It is all about the people being moved. Right I get it - We Benintendi now and he goes on to have a great year next year and in future years but that is ok because we got Chris Archer for 4 years regardless of how he pitches.
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You have to be just kidding here right? I like Archer too but a "true ace"? Nope - sorry - don't see it. he would surely be more motivated than in past years by changing uniforms but ACE - really! He is a good pitcher. Not worth giving up Benintendi for just yet but a good pitcher none the less.
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Oh God notin you've lobbed me another softball! lol If that is your idea of a no brainer than you must think that that Bagwell deal was special too right? I don't think Benintenid will turn in to Mike Trout but if he is just getting going many of us I think would prefer to keep him.
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I've liked Archer now for some time as well notin and I would love to see him in Boston- but I'm thinking not at the expense of losing a young player who we really don't know what to expect from going forward. We can at least make reasonable guesses as to what JBJ may give us but with Beni I don't think so. He could become one of the best hitters in baseball. We just don't know but if he does i think he becomes much more valuable than the addition of Archer right now. Betts, Benintendi, Devers - my 3 keepers
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IMO - exactly right. Too much of one thing usually is never a real good thing. it is very important to be patient with respect to hitting in general. it is just that some need to be more patient than others.
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I think that what you are saying here agrees with what I am saying.
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ok - I like Archer
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Yogi Berra
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but saying that a hitter of his accomplishments did not have some plate discipline is a joke.
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You make some very good points Notin for sure but quite often you seem to miss the points others are making. This team needs to stray a bit from an extremely predictable group of hitters regardless of what your statistics tell you. One mold does not fit. The goal I don't think is to make the team more aggressive as to trying to give weaker hitters a better opportunity to hit the ball. Plus the fact that this entire philosophy if you will was utilized to try to get an opposing team's starting pitcher out of the game. Clearly not as important these days. It has gone the way of Charlie Lau's method of hitting. I'm old school but even I will let go of things that don't really work anymore.
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Oh for god's sake Notin - stick with your stats. lol I could list a ton of guys that were very disciplined at the plate who more than covered the strike zone. Any good hitter has to have discipline at home plate. But I'll play - roberto clemente!!!
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Having elite poser hitters helps produce more runs in general I think. Home runs alone is not the issue. Good hitters always have discipline don't you think. You can have great discipline at the plate but if you can't hit the ball on to the outfield grass regularly maybe you shouldn't start playing when you are behind in the count every time you get up.
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I'm thinking that you know the answer to this one. Xander defense by some is seen as being much worse than average. JBJ's not so much. I'm ambivalent about them both. Happy to keep them both or if the return was worth it - "don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!" But , hey I feel this way about most of our current crop.
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hmm yes notin correct. And I know that on here if it can't quantified to some it doesn't mean much but let's see - how much of an impact do people think a hitting Ramirez and Papi in the batting order influenced how others were pitched to? Personally I think that the influence was huge. You going to play the patient to fault game you better have some real professional hitters in your lineup - not a bunch of little scrappy punch and judies.
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No question for me that a lot of whether to take or not depends on the situation as much as the man at the plate. If anyone thinks that at on a consistent basis it is ok to have an over riding hitting philosophy that consistently puts the likes of Brock Holt, JBJ, Vazquez and a whole host of others in an almost automatic o-1 or maybe even an 0-2 hole is productive - your prerogative I guess - I find that very comical! I don't care what arm chair you are managing from - one size never fits all.
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I agree - The Red Sox have had a philosphy built around patience at the plate in an attempt to see as many pitches from opposing starters as they could. It was a philosophy that worked but I think worked very well when you had some of the best hitters in baseball coming repeatedly to the plate. Times have changed. How many of current hitters does anyone really want to see consistently getting in to 0-1 and 0-2 situations? Common sense might rule here again. There are times when you pretty much swing at good pitches.
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I think that it is also interesting to note that Hyers previously worked with our budding young superstars (as some have called them) before in the minors. He knows them - they know him- what he will ask them to do might become very complicated to the prevailing think tankers and others who like to talk about the game as opposed to playing it but my guess would it be that any changes he asks our guys to make should be fairly simple -KISS.
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I like the common sense approach that Tim Hyers seems to take. It isn't about just moving in and retooling someone's swing. it is about working with the hitter and what tools he may already have and refine them. Basically the approach he sells really isn't complicated but it is a little different than what we have seen in Fenway for quite some time. Good luck to him - He sounds enthusiastic. By the way - staying on top of the ball worked for me because if it got on the ground I was in pretty good shape. It didn't work as well for some of my powerful teammates!
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I think Moon that MVP's statement stands alone here pretty well though. Many of us think that he is a helluva lot better than 10th on the list of defensive center fielders but we still think that as a whole body of work many of us as fans do over rate him. It is what we tend to do up here.