Dipre

If you wanted to part with Martinez and Beltre to get Gonzales or Fielder, you don't necessarily have to use them in a direct manner to acquire either of those players, now let me clear up first that i don't think that would be a wise thing to do, but the misconception that: A) Either is untouchable and Beltre and V-Mart couldn't be used to acquire either of them is easy to clear up. You could flip Beltre and Martinez to contenders making a push (Reds, White Sox, Minnesota, among others) and then flip those prospects in a big package fitting to the wishes of either team, with Gonzales being much more expensive but not untouchable IMO, neither that scenario nor a three-team deal is unheard of, and while it probably wouldn't happen, why make it sound like it's impossible?

Reactionary threads, like sweeping generalizations, are almost never correct. Also Mino, in your first post you say you "knew he would be a bad signing", then in your previous one you say that "you never said he would be a bust". Which is it? Discrepancies like this are the result of the same type of flawed thought process that leads to making a thread like this about a guy being a bust three months into a five-year contract.

I have to respectfully bow out. I have too much stuff going on right now, and i won't have enough time to pay attention to this. My apologies to everyone, and i hope you can find a replacement quickly.

Ah, it seems i have struck a nerve. See, one thing i've learned over the years is that when people put on this type of bravado "I'm not scared, i'm not scared, i'm not scared", I don't care what you say, i don't care what you say", it's usually ********. You're the classic example. Anyways, feel free to keep selling every Worst-case scenario idea possible, it's what you're here for, right?

Epically pathetic baiting attempt by Jacko. Then i tell him what he is, then he plays victim and pleads mercy to the mods "He needs to be banned, WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!". Par for the course. Moving on: You read it here first folks: Jacko is s***ing his pants at the prospect of what this team could achieve if it were healthy, and considering Ellsbury, Martinez, Beckett, and basically everyone but Pedey and Varitek will be back soon, i can't blame him. May i suggest our Yankee fan friend visit the adult diaper area at his local store?

Mino says something negative about the Sox, and Jacko immediately finds a way to completely agree with him. Quite funny, and utterly unsurprising. Now let me explain why Mino's premise is incorrect, the "magic" is not wearing out on the scrubs, the problem is that most of the year the scrubs have been replacing the production of two OF spots, allowing Tito to mix and match and put the guys in favorable situations but as soon as Pedey and V-Mart fell, then the lineup got completely exposed, because you're not covering for two spots, but four, so three guys that got rotated around in the OF are now all playing together, plus the massive downgrade with Kevin Cash at catcher, it's simply what's supposed to happen when you have Hall, McDonald, Nava and Cash in the lineup at the same time. You are, however, correct that the ASB should heal some of what ails this team. Interesting note: The Red Sox have over a third of their initial 2010 25-man roster on the DL: Beckett Ellsbury Delcarmen Hermida Martinez Bucholz Varitek Pedroia Lowell I know Jacko "isn't scared of the Sox" and blablabla but they're within striking distance of 1st place even with the rash of injuries, so what happens if/when they get healthy? @SoxSport: Dude, you keep bitching about the bullpen issue, and pitch counts, but while i agree with you that Tito's a terrible tactician, his bullpen use is mostly standard because this team's bullpen is currently poorly constructed. Too many one-inning relievers.

Which feasible scenario? The one where the pitcher who specifically said he wasn't going to stay and set up for Papelbon because he wanted to close full time but instead went to close full time on a contender for seven million stays on the Red Sox setting up for Papelbon (which is what he stated he didn't want to do) for seven million is what you call a feasible scenario? Wagner wasn't even going to come to the Red Sox if he was offered arb when those negotiations began, and it took a lot of bargaining to get him to even accept that. He wasn't going to be a set up man for the Red Sox. And that's the reality of it. If the Red Sox miss the playoffs by one game, trying to assign the blame to the lack of one reliever, now that is making s*** up What about all the injuries? What about Ortiz' early-season slump? What about the early ineffectiveness of the rotation? What about the early defensive lapses? All of those cost at least a game , but they don't matter because it doesn't suit your premise. @lasitter: Why was Wagner going to accept picking up "some" saving when he could go elsewhere for the same amount of money and close full time? It didn't make sense for him, and that's the main reason why he's a Brave now.

I just thought he was a good player performing a bit above his head, but now that someone with 40+ years of baseball-viewing knowledge has pointed out the error of my ways to me, then i have no choice but to alter my stance. Gardner sucks.

Grady Sizemore is about as different to Jacoby Ellsbury and Brett Gardner as a speedy guy can be to another. Ells and Gardner are both speed burners who slap the ball around and have minimal to moderate power, while Sizemore has a power hitter approach (patience+ uppercut swing) makes minimal contact, generates a lot of power and K's a ton. While Gardner has demonstrated the ability to get on base at a decent clip (.352 in 625 AB's, which is not, by definition, an insignificant sample, but i digress) i would like to see what would Jacko's opinion be if Gardner played for the Red Sox, had a .360 BABIP in 2010, and vastly inferior numbers away from his home park. Now, don't get me wrong, Gardner is doing exactly what he did in the Minors (Very high OBP, high-success base stealer) , but both his OBP and SLG are inflated by his home park (not by that much, mind you), but is this really what could be expected of him as "standard performance"?

*Add. And it's not about adding the salaries per se, but a luxury tax issue. Besides, we're all talking hypotheticals. Who's to say Wagner would have wanted to stay and set up for Papelbon when he could have gone elsewhere and closed? It's clear he wanted to reach 400 saves, and it was going to be very difficult to reach that mark setting up.

I'm sorry, i can't hear you over the sound of Drew's Homeruns.

And who else to enlighten us about the "toughness" or "softness" of ballplayers than a high performance athlete such as Mino from the comfort of his couch. Ellsbury has broken ribs, and i'm sure everyone that has talked trash about him couldn't wipe their ass with a pair of broken ribs. As for Drew, Mino's pre-conceived notions are well-known, and what i find funny is how he states "took himself out of the lineup" because apparently, not only is he 100% certain of the extent of the issue, he was part of the conversation and helped Tito put out the lineup card!

Sweeping generalizations are never correct my friend. There are respectable, knowledgeable Yankee fans (even if there aren't many of them) hell, we feature a couple of those here on this site.

The sky is blue, there is good in the world. The Sox will still score runs, and they just need to hold the fort until the walking wounded return. The season will not end.

Point out where i said it was a respectable outing? What i was pointing out is Jacko's eagerness to jump all over Dice-K when, just as ORS said, he always has a silver lining when it comes to Yankee players, or am i incorrect? The fact is, it wasn't a respectable outing, but it was passable for a guy coming off the DL (saying he wasn't injured when you have no proof other than "I think i heard it on WEEI is nothing but conjecture), there are other ways to express things without coming off as biased, but hey, what do i know, i fight with everyone! (But bias escapes me). Dissapointed in you BSN07, since you seemed to not read the post.

The man shouldn't be touched with a ten-foot pole in the offseason. Most people don't believe in it but i do: Dude's in contract mode.

How am i wrong for pointing out the obvious? Jacko is biased. Not a novel concept.

So......this Lester kid's pretty good. And not bad for a team that can't hit. The Sox rank first in almost every offensive category and second on HR's. Oh, and Beltre keeps hitting like his mother's life depended on it.

Unless a Yankee pitcher (like Javy Vasquez) was the one pitching. Then the "respectability" would be much easier to find.

Hitters are swinging at more pitches Papelbon throws outside the zone this year (36.5%) than any other year in his career.

Papelbon's percent of fastballs thrown so far this year (76.6%) is his lowest since 2006, and he is in fact using both the splitter (15.7%) and slider (7.7%). The problem is not overreliance on the fastball. He's just either throwing the ball outside the strike zone or right down the middle. In other words, he's simply sucking, and it's time to stop trying to make excuses for him.

So three things: 1)Pedroia is awesome. 2) This bullpen needs fixing, and it needs it now. 3) There is something wrong with Jonathan Papelbon. No more trying to excuse his suck.

I'm just saying, this is not a knee-jerk reaction. I've been analyzing Papelbon's counting stats and peripherals since the implosion at NYS, and the drop-off is astounding. No matter how much you like the guy, it's undeniable he's no longer an elite closer: The following stats don't include tonight, and if they did, the line would be much, much uglier: First off, let's get rid of the "Maybe he's unlucky" factor: Career BABIP: .297. 2010 BABIP: .228 His xFIP is 4.71 (It had never been as high as 4.00 since he took over the closer role) His BB/9 (3.68), K/9 (7.67) and K/BB (2.08)are atrocious, slightly above average (but still a career low) and atrocious respectively. His H/9 , at 6.4, is very good, but how much of that is luck? Combined with the massive amount of BB's, it really puts a dent in his WHIP. But the most disturbing thing is that 1.2 HR/9, he had never had it climb above 1.00 since inheriting the closer role. And this is not a three-month, or half a season thing, since most of the erosion in his overall peripherals started last year, when he posted career highs basically across the board (BB/9, HR/9, WHIP). The excuse last year was that "he set the bar too high" the previous year. What's the excuse now that his peripherals are declining even further?

You won't have both relievers if the one who's looking for the most money isn't the one with the better overall performance. Don't let your love for the player blind you. There is something wrong with Jonathan Papelbon.