a700hitter

HAs that come down yet?

I'll take on of his broken bat doubles off the wall.

What was Youk thinking on the bases?

I could n't live with myself even if it meant the playoffs for the Red Sox. I'll just leave it in God's hands.

Crede with a HR to tie the game. The sinker isn't sinking.

Who do I root for in this game!!:wtf:

I hear you. I do tend to vent as things are going badly. This was a terrible weekend for all Red Sox fans and the playoff chances of our team. The things that I posted during the game struck a chord because most of the posters felt down at that time. Unfortunately, I will probably continue to vent about the managers moves, the umps, the FO, or whatever during losing games.:dunno: By way of general commentary not directed at Example 1, one thing that my targets all have in common is that they don't post here, so I don't understand the personal attacks that return. We are all fans of the same team, but an attack on the FO, the manager, an ump, or a player is not a personal attack on a poster calling for personal retaliation. Some people need to get a grip and realize that the posters on these boards have a common bond. We passionately root for the same team. That's why we are here. The players, FO and the manager really don't care what we say in these boards, yet we treat with more respect than our fellow posters. As for the Yankees and their fans...:thumbdown

What teams do I hate other than the Yankees? Am I the only one here that is guitly of that? It's funny how the few posters who agree with my posts have seen the logic and reason of my arguments. Those who disagree can't. Just because you don't get it doesn't mean that it isn't there.

Welcome to TalkSox.

It was hard to be positive after the debacle in Tampa this weekend, so that certainly colored my comments. However, I find it curious that you are asking me not to misquote or paraphrase what you say, but you accuse me of using 20-20 hindsight on Pedro and Damon. Nothing could be more false. I have been adamantly opposed to both moves since the days their signings were announced. On this board and other boards, I was told that it was too soon to judge the moves. I've maintained this position steadfastly throughout. I've watched 1 2/3 years of Pedro go by with him winning at a .700 clip. I will continue to reiterate my position that these moves were mistakes until the numbers bear me out. Many still support these moves and think that Pedro and Damon will not be performing at a high level by the end of their contracts. I disagree with this opinion. I think they will be highly productive throughout the terms of their contracts. That is my prediction. BTW if I am making a prediction regarding their future performance, how could I possibly be engaging in 20-20 hindsight. I am putting my opinion about future events out there and if I am wrong, I'll admit it. So, now I we have to be nice to Yankee fans? They have certainly engaged in personal attacks and animosity toward me. I'll give as good as I get, but I don't attack a poster personally until I am attacked first. I will give as good (usually better) than I get. I'm not going to sit silent and be abused. I'm not pretending to be Mother Theresa. While I think this ownership and management is much better and more professional than past owners during my lifetime, I do have an anti-management bias. I am much more apt to criticize the FO than the players. As long as people engage me and criticize me for my opinions, I will continue to respond and explain my positions. If I am dismissively told to root for the Yankees, my response will not be friendly in the least. Finally, please don't preach to me about respect. I have received an ample dose of disdain and disrespect from other posters for voicing my opinions. If you are going to be a referee step in a little earlier, or just let it play out.

Yes, and he is completely annoying.

I have to get that book. It sounds very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to understand that while my posts are critical of the FO moves they are not a blanket indictment of this ownership group. Sometimes I get the feeling that people just see the criticism without reading the reasons for the criticism. It's hard to have a thoughtful discussion when some people respond with posts telling me to root for the Yankees. That's just so ridiculous. Id rather cut off a limb than root for them. However, I think the Yankee FO is very professional and highly competent. At times they have out-maneuvered our FO.

Should we be rooting for a Yankee sweep? If so, this is the one aspect of the WC that I really hate. What gives the Red Sox the best chance of making the post season. If the WC comes out of the east, the division winner in the east will get the easiest draw-- the west division winner, although the Yankees always have a very tough time with the angels and the red sox have a very difficult time with the A's. If the WC comes out of the Central and it is the Twins, the east division winner would have a very difficult 5 game series against Santana and Liriano. That would be a tough match up.

No one here is saying that the ownership isn't comprised of good businessmen. They have made a lot of good moves to improve the value of the franchise, but it is the baseball personnel moves that I am questioning. The primary building blocks such as Pedro and Damon could've been retained while building for the future without adding too much to current payroll. There were a number of poor ill-advised contract signings. I don't subscribe to the "twilight of their careers" theory with regard to Damon and Pedro. It was wrong with Clemens and it is wrong with regard to Damon and Pedro. Pedro is still winning games at a .700 clip over his first two years and has made two all star teams. He's on his way to the playoffs with the Mets who are favored to make it to the WS. Damon has been exactly what the Yanks had hoped for and it is because of him and Jeter that the Yankee didn't crumble after injuries to Matsui and Sheffield. Doing nothing was unacceptable. If an impact move couldn't be made, less expensive moves should have been made to get the team through this rough period. E.G. Livan Hernandez. Expecting Wells to last two years was a low probability move. Expecting Clement to perform in Boston was a low probability move at a very high cost. Re-signing Derek Lowe would have been a smarter move whether he is a drunk or not. I heard that JH didn't like him flashing his girlfriend at team functions while he was still married. The baseball personnel moves on the whole have not worked out very well. IMO there have been more bad moves than good moves. I don't see what is so controversial about that. The proof will be in the pudding as they say. This team is a long shot to make the playoffs while Damon's Yankees and Pedro's Mets will be playing ball in October.

That might be true for run of the mill players, but many Stars and Hall of Famers perform at All Star levels well past age 30. Look at Bonds (It wasn't all roids), Clemens, Yaz and going further back look at Warren Spahn who won about 260 of his 343 games after age 30. The great ones can lose a step and still be great barring a catastrophic injury.

I never said that I have been critical since day one. I had no problems with the moves, business or personnel, until last year. They have made several missteps since they won the Championship.

This is what I have been trying to say all along, but you said it so much better. You had better be careful or you will be accused of not being a fan. All I have tried to say is that the FO has made some serious missteps in the last few seasons, and it is showing on the field.

I don't disagree that they are looking to eventually look to become younger an cheaper(that's the key), but I disagree fundamentally with the way they are going about the youth movement. I've said it many times that the development of young talent did not have to come at the expense of letting Pedro and Damon walk. It's not like we got some young players or top prospects. Don't talk to me about draft picks, because none of them will hit the ML roster for 5 years if at all.

They did, but the FO toadies are programmed to believe the propaganda about getting younger and planning for the future while letting a 32 year old Pedro go because he is too old to sign four 4 year contract, but then they go sign a 41 year old dinosaur like Wells to a two year contract. Then they go and sign a sack of s*** like Clement for a ton of money who is all of 3 years younger than Pedro and already hit his very low ceiling. Pedro at 40 would be twice the pitcher as Cement head in his prime. Let's not forget the two year signing of a 36 year old Rudy Seanez who is completely unaccomplished and a total sack of s***. We raise the white flag on the game thread when he comes in. Yet, somehow a 32 year old Pedro martinez and a 32 year old Damon were deemed to be too old and not worth the risk. It was felt that somehow they will be in decline during their 4 year contracts. Of course they didn't figure that these guys in decline are still better than most All Stars. It's not a justification that Pedro can't pitch like he did from 98-2000, because no one ever had three years like that. If Pedro could still pitch like that, he'd be making $20 million/year for 4 years. Just because he can't reach that peak again, doesn't mean that he will not be very good for several more years. Yaz never reached the level of his peak from 1967-1970, but he played for another 13 or 14 years, mostly at a very high level and he almost always was an All Star. This ownership would've thrown Yaz under the bus at age 31-32. I remember the few times there were trade rumors for Yaz. The best offer we got was in 1971or 2 for the immortal Amos Otis, who was that generation's equivalent of Coco Crisp, but with better tools. He had a strong arm and better power. He was much younger than Yaz-- 8 years. Thank goodness that there was the foresight to realize that you don't trade away you Hall of Famer for an unproven CF. BTW, even tough he was 8 years younger than Yaz, Otis played only one season longer, and although he had around 200 HRs and 1000 RBI, no one has ever mistaken him for a Hall of Famer. ...Pedro and Damon were too old to be re-signed at age 32. Edit: BTW Clemens was 33 when it was declared that he was in the twighlight of his career. All-time great players are what they are because they don't roll over and die at age 32, 33,34 or 35. They find a way to get it done at a high level as will Pedro and Damon. We can sit here and watch our starws perform their feats and go to World Series on NY teams. Where have I seen this show before? I remember watching Clemens iwin Yankee World Series while we had a broken down David Cone. Now the Mets have Pedro and the Yankees have Damon and we have a broken down David Wells. de ja vu all over again.

Ribs take a long time to heal, and they are very painful. Wake isn't close to throwing yet, so who knows how long this will take. Before the deadline, Wells hadn't pitched in a game, so they had no idea what to expect from him. Livan would've filled the 5th slot until Wake comes back, and Wake wouldn't have to rush. After Wake comes back Livan would've been a nice insurance policy if Wells breaks down or just can't pitch effectively, or if something goes wrong with one of the other starters. He would have been very useful. We just don't have enough pitching.

Oh, good point, but I can be pissed that Theo wasn't on this a week ago when we didn't have a 4th or 5h starter?

I am sure he was available a week ago for about the same price without having to go through waivers. My recollection is that last week we still didn't have a 4th or 5th starter. So, by your posting that the Sox had no chance to get him because of the waiver rules you are acknowledging that the FO blew it at the trading deadline when they could have got him without waivers? Otherwise, I don't get the point of your post.

It does show that the Yankees are not an old decrepit team while the Red Sox are team in the midst of a youth movement.

He's slightly better than Jason Johnson...no?