ksushi

I will take ALCS MVP and a WS ring over the Cy any day of the week. No questions asked. Sure, there was an arguement to be made for Josh to win the Cy, and sure it would have been cool, but do you think that if CC approached him and asked him to trade hardware that Beckett wouldn't laugh in his face?

Yeah.... and his better ERA, K/BB, 4 CG's and more pitching win shares (23 to 18, CC over Josh) The only arguement Beckett really has (other than the shiny number 20) is that he pitched I think like 75 innings against playoff teams including the Yankees who had the best offense overall. Sabathia had 29 innings against playoff teams and never once pitched to the yanks. Beckett had a tougher road and more run support. Sabathia had an easier schedule but less run support (5.something a game, still a good amount.) That said, Sabathia had to win it. Him or Carmona.

Sabathia was a better regular season pitcher than Beckett. Carmona probably outshined them both... but thats another debate for a cleveland message board. They got it right. Had Beckett and CC swapped run support, CC would have been far and away the better choice. The only thing that made it close were the Boston bats.

I believe its released at 2 P.M. CC seems to be the favorite. Hopefully Beckett can pull off the upset. Hard to imagine the majors only 20 game winner as an underdog but i guess it is so...

I don't think it would push out Tek. Platoon Salty at C, and 1B and also rotate Youk and Lowell - if he signs - to spell them when they need rest. Salty could be a personal catcher for someone and spell Tek randomly to keep his legs fresh. I would deal Coco, Bowden, and Masterson for Salty but obviously none of the blue chips. - I probably like that better than getting Miguel Cabrera. Not to say Salty ~ Cabrera, but just that his versatility could help us keep guys fresh and swinging the bat well AND he comes with obvious potential.

I think his power will develop. I didn't say he'll hit 30 bombs but if you add even marginal power to the blend of skills he already has, a lot of balls that don't go over the wall will still hit the gaps and roll to it. If his power improves he could be unbelievable - and there isn't any reason to think it can't. Power is something that develops with time, sometimes not much time, sometimes it takes a little. He isn't at the point in his development where you can rule it out. Hes already very good, but not done maturing as a player.

Yes... I did, and for all we know, the Palm Beach post is about as reliable as the Herald. They're not the Marlins FO. They're speculating that the Marlins are going to be demanding CF prospects because of their overall lack of depth in CF. Hell last time I paid attention to who the Marlins had in CF it was Reggie Abercrombie. It isn't pretty. That said, there was nothing about that article that led me to think they had any special information on what the Marlins were looking for. Pieces like that - especially in a town that probably doesn't pay a whole lot of attention to baseball - are meant more to give a casual reader an idea of the kinds of trades the team is looking into as opposed to doing a lot of guess work as to who the actual names will be. I don't think you got my point. New point: Sure Miguel is young. He can work off his gut. But, imagine until credible rumors surface that the Marlins will be gunning for our top prospects. Is it worth Ellsbury and Buchholz? I think we'd agree probably not. It'd be amazing if we could have Cabrera and keep Buch, but I'll believe that can happen when I see the Marlins are dumb enough to do a deal like that. I can't find where I've read it or heard it, and I'm even willing to write off any clubhouse woes on the fact that all Florida has done recently is lose. I watched him that whole NLCS is 2003, watched him bomb 3 deep balls of chicago and basically rape their pitchers to the point of embarrassment when he was 20. He's one of the best hitters I've seen under the age of 25. That said, I don't believe in trading top of the rotation pitching for cornerstone hitting. I won't be upset if they do it because RHH Power phenoms like this are once or twice a generation talents, all I've said to this point is I wouldn't do it for Buchholz but the deal would have upside even if we included him. Wow, you really like to nit pick on people huh? I know all about Anibal Sanchez. And I'm not hating on the Beckett trade. Anibal was never going to be what Beckett is and I'll trade a positional prospect for power pitching ANY day of the week. Chill. Part of me would be ok trading Ellsbury to the Marlins, but part of me also is screaming "hitting is a talent, power is a skill - it can develop" with a slide show of Hanley bombing 30 and Carlos Beltrans swing being a mirror image of Jacoby.

Lowrie is mostly working on his defense in the fall league. Most people I've talked to are giving him a pass on his hitting because hes working at 3rd base and 2nd base in addition to trying to prove his worth at SS so he can be considered as a utility prospect at ST.

If you're the Marlins why would you ever do a deal with the Red Sox involving your best or 2nd best hitter (statistically the 4th best hitter in the majors this year) and not net at least one of their prized prospects? One of Ellsbury or Buch has to go. I think both. Its not worth doing. The difference here is that they weren't injury risks when we acquired them. They weren't eating their way out of baseball and they weren't injury risks at that time. Sure, Ortiz's knees pose a risk to his health from now until the end of his contract. That could keep him off the field. And, sure, looking at Manny's power decline this year you could say "Hey, maybe he could be injured, and maybe its serious" but you didn't say that when we acquired him. If we're going to give up our top two prospects for a guy who we expect to be a cornerstone of our franchise I don't want it to be Miguel Cabrera. If it were just money? Fine. But hes not a good clubhouse guy (but you could look at that and say its tough to have a good attitude when as little as 400 people show up to your games - thats probably how many people showed up to his amatuer games) and hes got a weight issue that could get serious. I'd rather not see Buchholz in a Marlins uniform if thats what its gonna take to get Miggy. EDIT! If we could do that, I would do it too, but I doubt the Marlins are interested in giving him away without netting a Buchholz or a Hughes or a pitcher of that age and caliber. They have to make up for Anibal.

Salty is regarded very highly by the Rangers, they figure he is going to turn into the next Texiera out there. He has a ton of power potential. I guarentee those talks were Laird for Coco, not Salty. I think we can do a little better unless they send prospects our way too. Besides, nothing will happen on that front until Torrii Hunter makes up his mind.

Did that really happen? 19 games and he won the Gold Glove??? That is a joke...

What hat do you think he'll wear when (if) he goes?

I think the Dodgers could be primed for a HUGE offseason. I think that might need a little tweaking. Pierre, Kershaw and maybe Kemp ( Who I think I read recently that the Dodgers are less in love with than in the past?). But, I definitely think they'll be the top suitor for Cabrera as they have by far the most need out of all the teams with the resources to net him. They finished last in home runs among NL teams or very close to it, and they just made a big splash bringing in Torre and they'll want to give him some more talent to get the job done. A cool thought for a Dodger fan, you could net Cabrera and still have the talent to net Johan if he were to become available. Miguel is going to command some serious glue in extension, and so will Johan, but I think there would be enough to go around between those two and maybe enough to spare and go after one of the "second tier" CF options, like Rowand and Cameron, who might actually be more valuable than the "first tier" options in Jones and Hunter. If they're committed to winning, they have moves to make. They could beast this offseason.

The Marlins are going to have a short list of teams to shop Miggy to. With a short list of prospects from those teams that they'll take. I'll guarentee that any talks between the Sox and the Marlins will start at a very unreasonable asking price for the Sox. Buchholz and Ellsbury will have to be the center of a bigger package. They're not going to let him go cheap. I don't think the Sox are going to trade a big part of their rotation next year and for years to come and their cost controlled CFer. If they talk to the Yankees it will be Hughes and Chamberlain. The Dodgers, probably Kershaw, Broxton and Andy LaRoche. I doubt Cabrera gets traded unless the Dodgers decide they really want him as they are probably the deepest out of those three teams in terms of minor league talent. The Sox won't bite, not via trade at least. If he hit the market it will be a possibility, but right now we don't have anywhere for him to play as it seems like our top priority is Mike Lowell at 3B.

What the f*** is wrong with the referees?

Pretty sure this rumor was squashed. I believe it was Gordon Edes speculating what it would take to get Santana and then it got called into EEI as a proposal the twins made to the Sox. No way would the Twins approach the Sox with a direct trade proposal. Maybe a call to let them know he is available, but not a proposal like this and this doesn't seem like something the Sox would offer.

Not to be a jerk and rain on your parade but: Verlander, Gallardo, Lincecum, Josh Johnson (last year), etc. You could make an arguement that Buchholz saved out season giving life to an otherwise lifeless team coming off a brutal sweep. Besides, every good pitcher has to have a rookie campaign. They all come from somewhere, and its very much more cost effective to give the job to a rookie and ride out the rough stretches and wait for it to pay off in the next 5 years that you have the guy. You keep 'em cheap, and use the $$ to better your team where your system lacks depth ( like we will likely need to do at 3B this year and C in the neat future). Sure, sometimes prospects are meant to be dealt, but when you have so much promise in this kid, I can't see us parting with him. Remember all the guys you called "bags of s***" back in the day? Pedroia? Lester? Guys like that. Aren't you glad we have 'em now? You'll be 10X as glad to have Buchholz as soon as next year.

I'm kind of assuming that the Marlins want to hang on to him and don't trade him. I don't know if a trade is likely, but it could happen. Obviously if he gets traded to another team the chances of him hitting the market are dramtically slimmer than they are now. I think they probably would let him go. They'd still have a good young core of outfielders and could use some of that money they would be spending on crawford to put towards the pitcher they really need to become competitive. They are on the cusp of being relevant in the east, keeping crawford won't get them any closer to that but letting him go won't really push them too far off of that goal either if they re-locate the money accordingly. Baldelli being healthy will be a factor. He has had some freak injuries, I don't know if I'd be ready to totally give up on him yet. Obviously they aren't either as they just extended him for a little while. No, I don't want to spend 30 million on Arod. Neither does the FO. They've publically balked at A-rods current price tag, as have a number of organizations. I sign A-rod for 20 Mil. I would take on 40 million for those two to be in the same line up as long as Manny is healthy this upcoming season. That kind of offensive force would be worth the money. And no, I never complained about the 9 million Lugo makes. I think that if he can make 9 million to play baseball, hell I probably could too, but I'm not one to complain about salaries in general. Mostly because I'm not paying them. I did complain about him not even being able to bat my weight in the first half. I think when you're going to be spending the league minimum on your CF, 2B, 1B, 2 relievers including your all-star closer, and 2 starting pitchers you can afford to drop some serious cash on SS, and LF (and RF but thats a sore subject until drew slugs .500). Beckett is cheap, DiceK is cheap (annually). A lot of our payroll is probably on its way out, with clement, schill, hinske and coco on the way out. Thats probably around 30 million dollars worth of payroll coming off the books with not a lot of impact on our roster. Right, I was just telling my friend the other day that because of revenue sharing, free agency likely won't have many big splash guys in it anymore. Thats why having a guy like Theo at the helm is going to be so crucial, because the draft is going to be so crucial in years to come. That was a joke btw, I know our scouting is good. I actually liked the Coco acquisition and I like how Theo even knew how the Guardians coveted Andy Marte so they acquired him to spin him for Coco. They had a pretty low opinion of marte themselves, and look how that turned out? That might even be a wash but its still a little early to give up on marte I guess.

Miguel Cabrera will be on the market. The chances of the Marlins re-upping with him are slimmer than the chances of the Yankees re-upping with A-rod now that hes opted out. If he isn't an elite RH power bat, no one is. Carl Crawford will more than likely be on the market especially if Baldelli shows signs of coming back to form. They'd probably opt not to pay him when they can still field a speedy and powerful outfield without him since they will still have Young, Rocco and Upton out there. If we don't sign A-rod it probably just means that the Sox didn't think Boras is coming off of 30 Mil a year, and won't overpay. I don't think that having A-rod means we have to get rid of Manny or not pick up his option years. I think if Boras finds out that teams aren't too anxious to part with 30+ million every year to have ARod and he might be signed for something like 20-25 with some kind of ridiculous incentives to do with the HR chase and MVP awards maybe the Sox would put in a legitimate bid. If they were to reel him in, I could see a Sox team with Manny and A-rod together even with Manny's option years. Our pitching is cheap for the moment. Buchholz will make peanuts. Beckett is paid far below market value. Lester makes nothing, so does Papelbon, MDC, Okajima. DiceK doesn't even make very much annually - 8 mil, but obviously we shelled out quite a bit to talk to him in the first place so its silly to act like he isn't a high priced commodity. Point is though, our pitching is cheap enough for us to pay top dollar for the top hitters in the league. Yeah, we'd been scouting Lugo and Coco for a whole season before we signed/traded for them. Clearly, we're really on our game when it comes to planning a few seasons ahead. Honestly, I think Mannys best chance of being in a Sox uniform past the guarenteed years of his contract are if we ink someone like A-rod, or trade for someone like Cabrera if Mike Lowell opts not to come back. That would take the pressure off Manny to be the "bad motherf***er" hes been pre-07 and just be Manny. Hit .290 - .300+ send 20 - 30 into the bleachers and drive in 90-100+. Good year, but not vintage Manny. If we had an A-rod or a Cabrera we can get by with any manny that manny is gonna be.

No, his contract is up at the same time as Miguel Cabrera. If he doesn't get traded to a team besides the Red Sox this offseason you have to think they'll let Manny walk and try to put that money into some younger talent.

Watch, Doug Mientkiewicz will end up with this ball somehow too. Papelbon: "Uhh, I gave it to this guy outside the stadium, his name was Doug. Said he was on the team, wanted to hold it"

I was at the Hinske Posada game. Huge moment. For me my big three were the Pedroia HR in game 7 LCS, Buchholz's No-No and the back to back to back to back. I'm surprised no one has mentioned Okajima in WS Game 2. He was pretty amazing.

I couldn't see the Twins parting with Santana this offseason. They just exercised the option on Nathan and have Liriano coming back this year. They are just one season removed from a 97 win campaign and still have a lot of talent up and down that rotation. I wouldn't be too surprised to see them try to acquire one more starter this offseason and maybe a second basemen and they would have a pretty nice roster ready for 08. However, if Bedard is available and the Orioles would be dumb enough to trade him to a divisional opponent, it wouldn't shock me at all if the yankees could put together a package to net him. I think Orioles could be big sellers this offseason (read: medium sellers. they really don't have much.)

Wake told the club when Dougie goes, he goes.

Five cigars and a few drinks later and I still made it class on time the next day and successfully talked my teacher out of making us take a quiz.