ksushi

Name one person who expected Pedroia to hit .320 in the first half and for Okajima to be anything but a drinking buddy for Dice-K. Come on. Sorry to pick on you, but I just saw this now and you can't jump on a guy for that stuff.

Never say never. I smell something unconventional coming. This FO has made shake ups when its necessary. This team has a good nucleus, a strangle hold on the division and thus a spot in the playoffs ( we think) and is struggling lately and looking sluggish. So, we have exactly zero quality starting pitchers on the market. Not many big name bats that are being actively shopped. Thing is, Sox have a need for both commodities. Something is gonna happen. Dunn is a guy who could be shopped, I think if it comes down to it, the sox will make big changes to bring in a guy who might not otherwise fit into our line up. Drew, Lowell, or even Manny could be moved, I don't know if anyone is safe in our lineup since no one is really playing well. Pedroia and Youk can rest easy, but outside of them, is there really anyone safe?

I wouldn't be surprised. It would also not surprise me if he hit less than ten. Yeah. He is late on 88 mph fastballs down the middle and pulling his head off the ball for the first time I've ever seen in his career.

Apparently a big part of being Manny is grounding into DP's.

Yeah, agreed, after reading about the deal I think this might just be another leverage point for Williams. I kind of smell a fire sale and have for awhile. It would surprise me if there wasn't one... but I don't know. I still kinda doubt Buehrle gets dealt. Demands will be way too high.

Would anyone jump on the Adam Dunn band wagon? The only problem in my eyes is where to play him? 1B? Or... an unconventional route... I love JD Drew, but hes not getting it done. If we funded say... the next two full years of his five year deal and sent him to Cinci as part of the deal and played Dunn in right would anyone be crying for him back?

First of all, Crisp fought tooth and nail? No. No, not really. He had a horrendous first couple months and there could be a whole host of reasons he was pressing, but unless you are determined to undermind his value to continue to wash ellsbury's balls, you have to look at his turn around and be impressed. Without a good Coco Crisp we would have been a .250 team in june, not a .500 team. If he hits like he has pre-boston, he is more valuable than Ellsbury to the Boston Red Sox. Coco Crisp is on pace to have a better defensive year than even Andruw Jones has ever had, and if his hitting is more of what we have seen since June first and less of what we saw in April and May, you can't deny his worth. He didn't fight tooth and nail, he got comfortable at the plate, and went back to playing the kind of game he did in Cleveland. And, I never said I think Ellsbury will be marginal. I think Ellsbury will be good, but not nearly as good as some people think on here. He might be recieving "special" praise, but he doesn't have a special skill set. He has a very common skill set... which consists of one plus attribute... his speed. He's a pretty good hitter, but no power. I'm not going to make a case against him, cause as I've said before, I like him. I just think that since we already have a capable CFer, trading Ellsbury makes sense.

Oh well, overall point still stands just replace the name buehrle with oswalt. The FO needs to do something. Year after year they have brought us the pieces we needed to compete at the deadline, this won't be any different. Last year before the season Theo said he expected the team to fade and win 85 games. We faded and won 86. I don't know if he didn't like what we have this year, but lets hope he thinks otherwise of a ten game lead. Gagne and Otsuka are available for sure but I don't know if thats a wise move. Delcarmen has looked GREAT and I have as much faith in him as I would in Otsuka if we brought him in so that might be a wash. Oswalt was asked if he would waive the no trade clause but despite having a 2% chance of making the playoffs, Drayton McClane apparently still thinks they are in it and covets Oswalt anyways... and can you blame him? Oswalt would cost us Bucholz no doubt about it, and thats not worth it. Bucholz could be Oswalt... Anyone have any ideas?

Wow. f*** that. I want the last 4 minutes of my life back.

I agree with you 100%. On everything except I think Okajima has big time stuff, but yeah no one holds a zero ERA for too long. Ellsbury has speed and defense. He doesn't really have .300 potential, he doesn't have any power potential. His only real plus attribute is his speed. He'll be good, but we're talking, Juan Pierre good, not Carl Crawford good or Johnny Damon good. His max value to the Red Sox is in a trade. We have the best defensive centerfielder in baseball already and since June 1st he's been hitting the ball hard and I'd bet hitting around .300. If he is back to doing what he has done pre-boston, with that defense, I don't know if you can really improve on that. Ellsbury certainly can't. Jon Lester is AT BEST a number 2 starter on a big market club, but what makes him valuable is that at worst, he's a 3 or a really good 4. He has good stuff, but like ORS said, we hope he is like a Buehrle down the road. Buehrle isn't too old either, 28, going into his prime. He is a horse and can quiet teams down like only the best pitchers in the league can. 3.03 ERA right now would be the best on our staff. Maybe five years from now, if we sent them Ells, Lester and Lugo we would be able to say they got the better end of the deal long term when you look at the overall talent changing hands, but really who cares. Youk, Pedroia, Papelbon, Beckett, Dice-K, Buehrle, Crisp and Bucholz are all above average to very good major leaguers under the age of 30. That is a great nucleus of young talent. Add Buehrle to that mix and we compete year in year out for the next 5-7 years depending on re-signings. Buehrle was set to sign a 4 year 50 million dollar deal. If we offered him 5 and 75, he'd be in the fold. The team we have right now needs a shake up. The talent is there on both sides of the ball, they just need that kick in the ass that a big trade gives. We're getting complacent... and having 3 #5 starters in our rotation doesn't help either. If the FO brings in a big time pitcher like Buehrle thats says to the team "Ok, we think this is the year, here is the last piece of the puzzle, go and get it done." That might be all this team needs to go from .500 ball club (what theyre playing like now) to .700 juggernaut (what they were and what they should be).

Ellsbury isn't a special enough talent to hold him out of a deal for a frontline starting pitcher under the age of 30. He's good, but hes not special.

I'm not going to stop watching either, they need a shake up though. They need a pitcher and a hitter. They didn't overachieve at the beginning of the season either... They had a good rotation, but a good rotation can easily be a bad one when you're talking about having 3 #5 starters in your rotation as opposed to 3 #1's which is exactly the shift we've seen happen. The bullpen is still solid, and right now we're looking at a lineup minus our MVP (youk) and with a cold as Glenn Close Manny Ramirez. It's hard to watch. Trade for Buehrle. Anything it takes.

This team is bad right now. I don't think there are two ways around it. Since June we have been a .500 team. Bad news.

The Sox are doing everything they can to make marcus thames look like willie f***ing mays. This is getting to the point where I just don't even want to watch the Sox. If they can't beat good teams now, how can they do it in october when theyll be even more worn down from the long season. This is depressing.

Love that baggy jersey. Still though, score more.

Manny Delcarmen is a player.

That absolutely sucks.

Yeah, gotta agree about Lowrie. I liked him, but just looked up his fielding numbers and I was not aware how below average he was as far as getting to balls. His glove seems to be only decent too. But I don't know about these tools you're talking about from Lugo. I think for the rest of this season I could more than live with Cora at SS.

I would give up Lester and Ellsbury in a heart beat to get Mark Buehrle.

I don't think they are selling low. I'm sorry, but if you can unload Lugo and get a frontline starting pitcher in the same deal... you do it. Jed Lowrie should be in AAA right now, Cora should be our SS and Lugo should be on the garbage heap. If we can send Lugo, Lester and Bowden or Lugo Lester and Ellsbury or any combination of those names to Chicago, Theo just acquired a big piece for the rotation and unloaded an offensive cancer. Good move.

Cora plays far superior defense and can't hit worse than Lugo.

Sox are probably giving in on a Bowden/Ellsbury deal, but want them also to take Lugo. I'd be happy.

Way to go Pena. Not deep enough, chunk.

I'd rather net a starting pitcher at this point, but if we had Lidge, Delcarmen, Okajima and Papelbon... in the playoffs the opponent basically has until the 7th inning to try to win a game and then its over... maybe even just the sixth. You shorten the game when you have dependable bullpen arms. I'd be ok with it.