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The games at 4:15 Flynny!!

Remember when the Redsox played this way, and were this hungry? Remember a time before pinkhats...a time when the whole stadium chanted as one and knew what the hell was going on? Remember when a groundball to the right side to move the runner over got cheers instead of boos? Remember when this was us? The ORIGINAL redsox nation??

Yup. I wonder how those "white papers" are looking these days. Instead of following him around taking notes about how often he ate at taco bell and "scoring" his personality/character, they should have been trying to figure out if the guy could play baseball in Boston. Since when did they give a s*** about character guys? I guess John Lackey and his divorce of a wife with cancer and drinking beers in the clubhouse during games and the fact that Eric Bedard hasnt paid child support in months slipped through the "white papers". Yeah, "white papers".....I wipe my ass with white paper.

So basically, you think the behavior of this team and the dysfunctional divided clubhouse is acceptable? Good to know. Youd be a perfect PR guy for them. Excuses, excuses, excuses. This team was embarrassing, this team was unlikable, this team was selfish and this team was not good enough. I dont give a s*** what they did in June, July or August. They finished in THIRD PLACE and out of the playoffs. Why do people still defend them? Its f***ing crazy. They spent 180 million dollars and for the the second straight year they not only missed the playoffs, but they finished in THIRD PLACE!!!!! Enough with the excuses.

20 Home Runs from a guy whos never hit 20 Home Runs??? You will be disappointed then. .280/.333OB/.770 OPS.....15HR, 75 RBI and 40+ SB's works for me.

Better to choke in the regular season than the postseason. No team has EVER lost a series in baseball when they were up 3 games to 0......until the Yankees did.

Yeah, apparently you didnt read the rest of the post "dude", because the rest of it was there as well. "Sounded like" is making assumptions, which were wrong.....I made the post as well as the opening post in this thread and I am telling you your assumptions about my opinion....are wrong. Blowing it up is the right idea, but at first I was hoping for immediate positive results. With all those holes, I stated "I dont know what to think" about the future success in the immediate future. Please go back and read past posts that I have made and stop making assumptions. "Sounded like" and "possible" are making assumptions. If I relayed the message wrong, so be it but you wont see me defend this embarrassing franchise. I am one of the few that is critical of it, to a fault sometimes.

I dont make excuses for them. Do me a favor and re-read my post. I was saying its a miracle they won 90 games with all those problems and they have a lot of work to do by pointing out all the holes they potentially have. I criticized the entire franchise up and down and have done so for 2 years. Does "blow it up" and my criticism of the players as well as management sound like I am defending anyone or using it to gauge next year? Not good enough, top to bottom....thats what they are. 180 million dollars and they are not good enough. I know you started posting here like last week, but before you make assumptions about my intentions get to know me as a poster first, because clearly you dont grasp my intentions. Read the first post in this thread. Ive probably been top 3 in terms of most critical of this team in this forum.

As was I my friend Dodgers and Giants are bitter rivals......and how could you root for both the Mets and Yanks in the same gamethread? Think about it! :harhar:

Wrong, he is a Dodgers and Giants fan. Also saw him rooting in a NY forum for both the Yankees and Mets at the same time during an interleague game.

Im not even sure what to say, right now as a fan....I am outraged. This is embarrassing. Why does the front office feel the need to leak information about a possible substance abuse problem with pain killers that Tito might have (especially considering hes been through 20 knee surgeries in his life)?? Why must they leak information that he is having marital problems and has been living in a hotel? Why do they have to smear everyone who walks out that door? In retrospect, I have been butting heads with many of the members here over the last two years because I have been critical of this team and franchise (to which most of my bitching has turned out to be correct). This franchise at one time had loyal fans regardless of how much they won or lost and I was proud to root for this team, even if they finished second fiddle to the Yankees. Now, I dont give a s*** if they win because its hard to root for a group of guys like this and its even harder to be a fan of a club that is owned by this group of owners. Over the last two years, whether or not fans wanted to see it, there were problems with this franchise. I have said "blow it up" and it looks like thats where we are heading, so hopefully I was right in suggesting that method of fixing things. Things couldnt get much worse in terms of bad press could they? I mean, what the hell is going on here? The whole Manny situation, the fighting inside the clubhouse with Youkilis, Ellsbury "dogging" an injury, Beckett missing starts because of the "flu" aka bad hangover, the constant injuries, Sweet Caroline, reality TV shows on NESN, selling Fenway "bricks", the Liverpool soccrer team, Tim Wakefield deciding that a non factor career achievement is more important in the fans eyes than overall team success, Jason Varitek and the starting pitching clique, the babying of Josh Beckett and giving him his binkie (Varitek), letting Vmart and Beltre walk for nothing, drinking/playing xbox/eating KFC in the clubhouse DURING games, David Ortiz refusing to succumb to the fact that Gonzalez was the better player and forcing Gonzalez to play RF, the excuses, ignoring the conditioning program and gaining 15-20 pounds of fat throughout the season, John Lackey and his personal laundry being aired out, the smearing of Francona and now the latest.....David Ortiz saying he does not want to be a part of the team. If you ask me, this s*** starts at the top. All this s*** started at the top with management. If this is the future of this franchise, how can we as fans continue to support them? The sellout streak is fraudulent anyway but as long as we continue to buy merchandise and they continue to sell tickets nothing is going to change. Instead management is sitting in their offices pointing their fingers at everyone but themselves. I love the Redsox but right now my love for the organization as a whole has diminished when you factor in the ownership group. I support the team and will continue to but I cannot support this ownership group. They have turned this franchise into a reality TV show. The most important thing to them is making money....that is why Crawford was signed. If Ellsbury and Papelbon are not signed like many have suggested, lets take a look at this team after next year: LF Crawford CF ? RF ? 3B ? SS ? 2B Pedroia 1B Gonzalez DH Youkilis? C Saltalamacchia/Lavaraway SP Beckett SP Lester SP Buccholz SP Lackey SP ? BP? BP? BP? BP Bard CP ? This team still managed to win 90 games despite all these problems that are coming out as of late. Ill tell you, blow it up sounded like a good idea, but looking at all those holes and throw in the fact that the starting rotation has drinking/weight/conditioning/injury problems and Youkilis is aging/breaking down as well as another possible clubhouse problem...well, I dont know. I just dont know what to think.

So it looks like I was to to something when I made a thread "This has to be said" saying that we need to blow the entire thing up. What a disgrace. The past 2 years have been my least favorite since the early 90's.

Well, it is that easy. Variteks contract expired, and Wakes option is a mutual one. If they do nothing, they are both gone. When has doing nothing been difficult? Letting Pedro Martinez walk or trading Manny Ramirez or Nomar Garciappara.....those are tough decisions. Letting unproductive, old, selfish players go is about as easy as it gets.

John Lackey is going with him. Carlos Zambrano is coming to Boston. You heard it here.

Wrong Same city, updated old toilet of a Park, extremely different fans. That place was volatile back then. The fans were always on edge and pissed off. Friendly Fenway didnt exist back then. In regards to NESN, yes they had it but back then, NESN was not available on regular cable, which meant if you couldnt afford it, you could only watch 81 games a year on either TV38 or channel 68 sportsnight with Butch Stearns. Different owners. Different front office. BETTER results.

http://www.ballparktour.com/Former_Boston.html History of the old Braves Field as well as links for other old and new stadiums. Extinct stadiums interest me. Look at old Exhibition Stadium in Toronto. Can you believe that place actually hosted the Toronto Blue Jays up until the late 80's???? http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/exhibi01.jpg

Chris Stynes was traded for "Prime Time" Michael Coleman and Donnie Sadler, 2 guys who floundered in the farm system back when we had THE WORST farm system. Scott Cooper, the Sox lone all star representative for 2 seasons. He was the best they had, and he was f***ing terrible. I remember Clark, the Sox didnt learn anything about signing aging free swinging sluggers who cant play defense anymore. He was replaced by Andre Dawson who could barely walk at that point in his career.

179 Most impressive? I got Rudy Pemberton, Shane Mack, Dwayne Hosey, Bill Haselman and Mike MacFarlane all of which under 10% of everyone who takes the quiz gets. I find this to be embarrassing and I clearly had NO LIFE except Redsox baseball and collecting baseball cards as a kid (1991-1998).

Well, Lackey had a 6+ ERA and made 14+ Million dollars. I just threw up.

1000+ posts in the game thread today http://www.talkpats.com

Join us over at talkpats for the Patriots/Jets game!!!

Well, this depends. If this management group is serious about winning, they will get rid of him and eat most of his salary because we almost have zero chance of winning with the WORST starting pitcher in baseball taking the mound every 5 days. If the RedSox eat 10M per year on his deal, he is much more attractive to some small market, zero pressure situation team. Like I said, this depends, if they are serious about change and winning.....they will cut bait and get rid of the players that drag this team down....even if that means eating those mistakes.

HEART: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XosazqcAbG8&feature=related

Tito should have BLASTED the players/organization that he felt created this problem. Tito would have no problem finding a job regardless. He was/is a good manager and an even better human being. When I quit/retire from my job, I will walk out the door with both middle fingers in the air, challenge about 10 people to a fight, then I will pack a huge lip of grizzly mint and spit on the newly waxed floors....when I get to the parking lot, I will pour gasoline on the cement and roast my tires creating a blaze of glory, with the middle fingers still saluting my former bosses.