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.....and this is the reason I make my statements. It doesnt matter how much talent they have if they dont give a s*** about winning. On paper, they arent as bad as I say.....I will agree with you and Username credit with that, however...paper champions dont win anything except third place. When I say blow it up, I dont mean get rid of everyone and start over....what I mean is blow up some of the nucleus and get rid of the cancers and the guys who are indifferent/comfortable.

Yeah, a second straight year of 3rd place finishes and missing the playoffs with the second highest payroll in all of professional sports just doesnt excite me. Reactionary....again, is when you react to something that has just happened. This team needs to be blown up because after looking at them as a group, more of the same is not going to work. Something needs to change and a band-aid isnt good enough. Theyll be sure to raise those ticket prices like clockwork despite the fact they cant finish above a team with a 1/3 of their payroll and a 1/3 of the attendance the Sox draw..

Reactionary? Yeah, reactionary would be if I said this stuff the day after the season ended. Ive been beating this drum all year long. Beckett and Ellsbury as part of a PACKAGE that brings at least back a true #1 is what I said, not just for 1 pitcher. A package.

Players the Sox should target: Ramon Hernandez, C Aramis Ramirez, 3B Mark Buehrle, SP Michael Cuddyer, RF Ryan Madsen, RP Coco Crisp, backup OF K-Rod, as a RP, not Closer Frank Francisco, RP Chien-Ming Wang, SP (worth the gamble for a 5 spot) Jason Kubel, backup LF/RF/DH Josh Willingham, backup OF/bench bat/backup DH Ryan Doumit, C, DH, bench bat Edwin Jackson, SP

Exactly. A simple band aid will likely end in ANOTHER third place finish. Reyes doesnt make much sense though. They just re-upped Scutaro, so unless you move Scutaro to 3B and make Youk the DH it wont work......and essentially that would be replacing the production of Ortiz with Reyes which, while Reyes is a great player, Ortiz gives you more. I think the Sox need to start looking for a replacement at 3B for Youkilis as I have been saying all offseason. Hes missed too many games over the last 2 years, and lets face it....hes getting older and wider while playing a more physically demanding position than 1B/DH, so expect more of the same. To me, the major needs we need to complete this overhaul..... CF...not by choice, but Ellsbury packaged with Beckett, could bring in a high return. Could bring in a real #1. 3B....time to seriously consider a replacement. RF...not sure if Kalish is ready to just hand it over. Bring someone in, a decent RH bat to compete with him. Kalish might play a little CF if Ellsbury is dealt anyway. C.....a real catcher please, not someone just plugging the hole aka a band-aid. SP......Bring in 2 or 3 Starting Pitchers (Beckett creates this hole if dealt, worth it with right package) RP......all of them minus Papelbon (and assuming Aceves gets a shot in the rotation). Bard can pack up his s*** and be packaged in a deal with Iglesias, Lowrie, Reddick, Bowden and see what that returns. Bench....see ya later Lowrie and Mcdonald and even Salty if they bring in a real #1 catcher. I cant see them sticking Lavarnaway in the minors again next year. Lavarnway has already proven more offensively than Salty has in the minors. Bring in a right handed hitter who can hit in the middle of the lineup (5th or 6th). Blow it up please. Do not put a band-aid on a wound that needs stitches.

Best defesnive CF in the AL catches the ball that Ellsbury dropped as he ran in to the wall against Baltimore.

bye bye Wheeler. We dont need more of the same, we need overhaul. Looks like "blow it up" and "overhaul", 2 things that I prayed for are really happening. He wasnt bad, but he wasnt good enough. Replace him with another dime a dozen MR's and get a first round pick.

If anyone is interested in talking some football, we have a gamethread at http://www.talkpats.com for those interested.

T_Bone, seabeach has a history here of being a bandwagon fan of almost every team in the history of baseball. He is not hated however. In fact, sme of us find him entertaining. Nobody gives a s*** what went on at your old crappy forum. I looked at that place and it sucked way before a few s***** members left. If you are here to contribute to this forum then welcome. If you are here to start fires, then get out of here.....not welcome. Seabeach may sound like an idiot at times and forget about which team at that moment is his favorite, but at least he doesnt start fires. EDIT: Seabeach, this is not an insult to you. Just calling it as it is.

Join us for todays games over at http://www.talkpats.com We have an NFL gamethread going, as well as a Patriots game thread. Also, we still need 1 participant for the NFL redraft. Sign up over at talkpats.

The whole point with this thread was to make a point by posting a pretty simplistic s***** set of statistics. The statistics were not Saltys to a T, but they were in his range......and that range was pretty brutal. The point was to hopefully show that many fans were blinded by his little hot streak. He was pretty good for a short period of time in the season, but in the end, the overall numbers were bad. The point was to objectively look at his season totals. Instead, another point was proven. No matter how bad overall the player performed and how terrible the stats were in the end, Sox fans are blind to the reality (by a little hot streak) and take offense to someone criticizing a backup catcher. Surprised some of you didn't defend the beer drinking/chicken eating...."Yeah, but its not like they were drinking regular Budweisers, they were drinking Bud Light!!!"....."Yeah, but its not like they were eating KFC extra crispy, they were eating the original recipe!!!"

TIED!!!

maybe not!!!!

Looks like this is Pujols last game as a Cardinal.

I didnt say anything about Salty. I asked if you want a player who cant hit .250, who cant get on base and who strikes out a ton while slugging at .450 in your lineup who also is average AT BEST defensively. The fact that people are saying "yes" because they assume its Salty is unbiased. That stat line is pathetic, and if you want that player starting in the lineup next year well, then you are content with another 3rd place finish.

Do you have the Pedro no hitter in relief when Troy Oleary hit a grand slam against Cleveland?

yo

General baseball question for everyone. If a player hits under .250, gets on base at less than a .300 clip (

mods please delete, tried to make a poll, failed. Will try again.

Well this sucks. Hes definately not going anywhere now. In 2013 when he returns....and sucks, hopefully they just cut him.

The player in description is below average, to average defensively.......

Am I a vet? Oh boy I hope so!!!! Shame on you example for not mentioning me!!! I rub people the wrong way sometimes, thats ok.....The only person I am supposed to rub the right way is......ahh nevermind. I am a realist also, I am brash.....but I call it like I see it, even if what I see is not what other die hards see it. I was born in Boston, I love the RedSox....I am a die hard, but I am not a fanboy, and I am not a homer. When they suck, I call it as it is.