example1

1. Sign Matsuzaka (I believe he's actually 26, not 23)(I think I saw he was born in 1980?). He may cost a lot of money, but if he's as good as advertised then he's worth it. 2. Do whatever it takes to get Roy Oswalt. 3. Start finding a catcher to take over for Tek in two years. 4. Let Timlin go 5. Get another closer. Use him to setup or as a closer, depending on what Papelbon does. Then get another reliever, and another. 6. f***ing ask Papelbon which role he wants to do and let him do it. Keep him happy and let him dominate. 7. Pick up Loretta's option and package him with either Crisp or Pena to get the best available CF (Wells perhaps, including a mid-level prospect to close the deal as well; or Andruw Jones) or best available SP. 8. Bring up Pedroia THIS season, introduce him to Sox fans and let them salivate a little. There is a lot of work to be done. This team has a good nucleus, it just needs to gel a little bit before it takes off. Pitching, pitching, pitching.

Couldn't this conversation be placed in a "Jon Lester" thread?

f***. Yeah. I wish I had the chance to beat their asses down personally.

I'm pretty chill, man. No worries. I'm just clarifying that while, yes, I perhaps used the wrong term, they are actually the same thing (bullpen vs. closer by committee). But it doesn't have too much relevance here. Just sayin'. :dunno:

Yeah, I started the post so I'll take the hit for the title. Although, by extension of a closer by committee wouldn't you also have a bullpen by committee? In fact, after a quick search (literally 20 seconds): http://sports.mainetoday.com/seadogs/stories/030407seadogs.shtml "He" is SeaDogs Pitching Coach Bob Kipper. Do you think he is "full of it too?" wow, here's another example of it being used: from: http://athomeplate.com/sb2705.shtml Off topic? Yes, but I that should end the ridiculuous foolery weighing down the post above! :harhar:

I agree with you on most of these points. Some of your posts, if taken in the wrong contexts or at the wrong time... ( top of the tenth, tie game)... could be seen as those of either the most horribly depressed Red Sox fan in the world, or the workings of a wolf-in-sheep's clothing. I know you're a fan, but you're obviously either highly stressed or depressed about this team, which is a trait you oly partially share with most of us on this board. I get the sense that there remains a silent optimism amongst most Red Sox fans around here. We all realize that the Sox are not in 1st, and not a lock for the post season. We also realize that, just a few weeks ago, this team looked unbeatable. The last few years have largely been streaks like that, with periods of good play (when we brag about the team) and poor/unlucky play (where we are on a roller-coaster that ultimately crashes). Schilling is having a great year. Manny is arguably having the second-best year of his career, and Ortiz his best. Papelbon is easily one of the top 5 closers in baseball overall right now, and on any given day he is as difficult to hit as anyone in baseball. Beckett has been up and down, granted, but Youkilis, Loretta and Lowell are all positive surprises while Gonzalez has turned his season around offensively. Crisp has been disappointing overall, but has shown flashes of why the sox got him. I think he'll have a full effect either in the stretch, or next year (when he gets a chance to start over). Lester has been a pleasant surprise that makes me want to see the other highly touted (and thusfar successful) prospects we have up our sleeve. I agree about the Yankee FO being professional and competant. Any business that large and on that stage needs to be top-notch in terms of personnel and theory. I personally think the Red Sox are better in terms of both though. They only lack the owner who is willing to pay over and over for players who may or may not work out/fit with the team. Other than that they are likely more at the cutting edge in terms of management theory and sabermetrics. They hired Bill James for f***sakes. That does not guarantee a WS or even playoff appearance, since all of baseball is about probabilities. However, when extended over, say, 10 years (beginning in 2003) the chances of winning with those theories increase. If you're in or near the playoffs for 10 years in a row you have a higher probability of winning the series than those who are only in it for a year or two of every 10. Few teams manage to do it over the long term, except for the Yankees.

You know, you're totally right. I just had the impression that you were giving him less credit than I gave you credit for (if that makes sense). There were a few moves that it seems like could have been handled more professionally, but according to "feeding the monster" (the new sox book) it looks like there was a lot of miscommunication/competitiveness between Luchino and Theo that kept some things from happening. For instance, Theo was largely against the Beckett deal due to his fear about injuries. This would be a different team if Hanley were available and Sanchez were able to come up and be the 5th starter. That said, I like Beckett. The team got straight PLAYED by Scott Bor******* in the Damon deal, who--according to the author--saw this as an opportunity a) to get himself a lot of money and open the door to other players going from the Sox to the Yanks of vise-versa. In other words, Damon may be the first in a long string of Sox and yanks that make that move. In any case, that book really highlighted the difficulty that running a team like the Sox entails. It is very amazing that ANYTHING gets done in that FO given the egos that are involved in all negotiations.

Dude, owning ANYTHING as lucritive as the Red Sox is going to make you lots of money. However, this group how done many things that are good for the red sox, and they put up hundreds of millions of dollars to buy the team. They care about the product they put on the field. Lucchino is a maniac man, he's probably TOO involved in baseball operations. Epstein traded Garciaparra for christsakes!!! He took an enormous risk in the face of one of the most beloved Sox players of all times, and got us a World Series. That could have gone horribly wrong.

I think the theory behind all of this is as follows: a) the Yankees current crop of overpaid players will either age-out or stop being good. some of the Yankees strength comes from players that are, essentially irreplacable (Jeter and Mariano Rivera come to mind) and who are getting older. c) by saving some money, the sox are in a good position to offer good and respectful contracts to worthy players over the next few years, or to trade a prospect or two to get good players for the next few years. d) the yankees have a history of getting players who don't ultimately pay off like they should. If not for players who go above and beyond like Jeter and Mariano, they would be any other overpaid team that doesn't make and win in the playoffs. -------------------------------- These four things are all likely true. The Yankees will get older and their biggest strengths will not be replaced. Meanwhile, the Red Sox are intentionally trying to get young players who fit the mold of franchise players: leadership, hustle, good eyes/patience, owned for 6 years, etc., So, we COULD trade Pedroia and/or Ellsbury now, or we could assume that these guys are special players. In fact, they are both former PAC 10 stars, they were both the leaders and stars on their respective college teams, they are both tremendous 4-5 tool players with great leadership qualities even in their professional careers. Personally, while I agree that it is painful that the Sox are currently struggling to keep pace with a struggling Yankees team, I prefer to think about where it is going. Before this season started ANY of us would have paid money to have a Sox team that was 2 games out of first in early August with a hold on the WC lead as well. Lineup 2 years from now: CF-Ellsbury 2B-Pedroia DH-Ortiz LF-Ramirez 3B-Youkilis RF-Pena 1B-?? SS-?? C-?? Beckett ???? Papelbon Lester Bucholz/FA/Bowden(its early for Bowden, but he looks GOOD) I think it would be possible to get a very good C, SS and 1B who will contribute offensively. When I say very good I don't mean Alex Gonzalez, I mean someone at Tejada's level. Glass half-full? Yeah. But there are too many s***** things in the world to spend my whole day worrying about moves the sox don't make. I want to see them as a good team and I truly believe they are and will continue to be.

Yee of little fait... I mean, Yee of tremendous foresight

Yeah, but the Yankees are the only team people are pointing to about doing things at the deadline. The Yankees have much less to lose, in my valuation, in terms of young players by trading them away. The Yankees mantra is not so much "on base percentage and long at bats" (like the sox) but rather "get the best available player" in the old-school sense of the term. Perhaps what the Yankees know that we don't is that THEY need to buy another high-priced overhyped slugger in order to placate their fans who are not intelligent enough, nor patient enough to wait for a good thing to develop. Perhaps they care a lot more about what the fans think than the Sox FO does. The only reason they were willing to stick with Jeter and Posada and that crew coming up in the 90's was because their team was horrible for so many years before hand. Most of the good teams at this point are retaining their best talent rather than trading it away: the Sox, Mets, Angels, Twins, etc., none of them believe that any overpriced FA/Trade is worth doing at the expense of younger players who could be cornerstones for years to come.

I know you're a good fan man. NOBODY would spend as much time as you do on this board if they didn't have a deep passion about the team. And you're right, this would be an important win for this team... absolutely. Every year there are a number of games that go like this.... it seems like they have been occuring more regularly of late That said, the season is far from over no matter what happens so I find it best to take things day by day.

LET'S GO PAPI!!!!! LET'S GO PAPI!!!!! LET'S GO PAPI!!!!!

Yes, and this is in the midst of their so called slump. It isn't clear which team from the West is the best right now, but none of them have a record like the Sox do. Therefore, I don't consider them among the best teams at this point. Perhaps I'm nitpicking, but I don't think so.

I don't see him as a bandwagon fan necessarily. He kind of sounds like he still has the pre-04 mentality of everything being a stupid decision, a dumb acquisition, a fatal flaw, a relief pitcher that will never do anything, a team that is bound to fail. I just don't see it that way. I see this as a team that has won 90+ games for the past 3 seasons and is likely on pace to do it for a 4th season in a row. I see this as a team that puts more thought into its moves than any Sox team I've ever watched, and they do it better than any other team in the game right now. So they don't make a move at the deadline... perhaps they know something we don't. For those who are pissed that the sox didn't trade Hansen, Lester and Pedroia for Clemens (or some such deal), what do you propose we do next year, when clemens is retired and we don't have any young players? Do we go overpay for another Matt Clement?

Are you assuming that they are not capable of beating the good teams? If they showed an inability to beat good teams I would understand, but this isn't a team that depends on beating crappy teams to make the playoffs. The last few years the sox have played well against the Yankees, and the entire AL West. We have played Detroit and ChiSox well this season. I see it as a slump too, but when you slump to .500 things are okay, especially when your team shows an ability to beat the best teams out there.

Sometimes I have a hard time telling if you're a sox fan or not. Suffering? The sox are in this game and in a playoff race. You're so damn fatalistic sometimes 700.

Jesus WMP, that made my heart skip a beat.

.500 is hardly a slump. If that's as bad as it gets then your team is likely at least contending for a playoff spot. In this difficult AL consistently contending for a playoff spot is really all one can ask for. Beyond that it is largely luck and how the cards fall IMO.

f***. I felt that one coming. Gotta go with the SPLITTER!! f***!

Indeed. Let's hope Paps can shut the door again. Nice K to begin with.

my thoughts exactly ORS. If the problem was the lack of a true relief ace (which they said it was) then they have either dropped that philosophy or they are not showing fidelity to it this year for some reason. I know people get uncomfortable with the idea, but leverage seems like a powerful stat/idea and one the sox should not shy away from.

I wonder if the sox could use Papelbon more effectively. If I remember correctly, this organization originally attempted to use a bullpen by committee a few years ago to put the best pitchers in the game at the most important time of a game. It seems to me that with this stellar sox defense and a much more than adequate offense, keeping runs from scoring in the 6th, 7th or 8th would be just as important as preventing them in the 9th. In other words, would this sox team be a better one to try the bullpen by committee than the '03 team was? Wouldn't Papelbon be the perfect pitcher to use as a classic 'stopper' rather than as a closer? It seems like there are a lot of close games that the sox lose in the 6th or 7th that Papelbon never ends up in anyway. Wonder what others think about this possiblity.

I'm pretty sure that they just resigned Ortiz and that Manny is under contract for a little bit longer. I understand being critical, but I think this is the best front office in baseball right now, and that's AFTER doing all the research I can both about baseball statistics and how front offices work. If you think this group of owners/GM would let this team get to the point of having Darren Lewis being the center piece you're crazy man. Be real. f***. Double play

f***ing un-straight foullines!