26 to 6

what you guys forget is that he didnt just make a jump from horrible to great. I dont have the numbers in front of me, but he started to turn it up in June. He started to get clutch hits (the one that is fresh in my mind is the walkoff homer against Pittsburgh), started to hit more homers, and then gradually he became what he is now. Not through steroids, but through hard work.

I dont know how huge it will be considering there is only 18 games left for Cleveland. But it will definatey play a role. I never like to wish bad health/injury on anybody but this really helps us out.

whats a parachute going to do to help him? He died 15 seconds off the runway. Its not like he was in the air and the plane was going down.

oh please, now you're just twisting things around.

youre right that I should do a pitcher by pitcher comparison, but I was just trying to do it quickly. I didnt have the patience to sit there and do all of that, I was barely able to do what I did. Im going to go and relax and hopefully I feel better (still feeling prettycrappy from my surgery 2 fridays ago, the one that caused me to miss the game) and then ill do a more in depth comparison on the pitchers.

I was just doing a player/player comparrison. I didnt look at any stats or anthing, everything was done quickly off the top of my head, if you would like I could do a more thorough comparison later on tonight.

yea i know them. Ive been posting there for a few years, i know what you mean, some of the posters there can be difficult. You're right, had LA not been as successful we (NY/Brooklyn) wouldnt be as bitter. And yes, its absolutely ridiculous that he said he wouldnt have a problem if the LA team drops the name Dodgers. If you look around the forum a little you'll find me. I post all over the board but mainly the Yankee, Met, Expo, Current Event, Trivia, History, and International boards. I have the same sig there as I do here (the NY baseball thing).

does anybody know what happens 2 teams finish with tied with the best record (in this case the WSox and the RSox)? Do they have a coin flip to determine home field? I doubt they would play a playoff game.

lets drop the murder analogy, its pretty stupid. It would be nice if we could drop this subject because its starting to become a headache

yes but its still being accused of something you didnt do, with evidence (whatever it may be, im not going to go crazy with specifics) pointing to you being guilty. People who have a history of being murderers arent the only people who get blamed for murder. And you can compare this Giambi situation with a murderer, who did his time, who is accused of another murder he didnt commit. Its not fair.

As do I, thats why I asked them since they consider Boston the best team last year because they won it all, would they do the same this year if the Yankees won it all and of coarse they said no. Even if the Yankees won the Series it would be ludicrous to declare them the Leagues best team in the year 2005

I think its ridiculous that you think the Sox had a better offense. I am going to compare the players with an unbiased judgement. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the overall comparison. Defense, Offense, everything. C: Matheny 1B: Pujols > Millar/Mientkiewicz (No arguement) 2B: Womack > Bellhorn (Bellhorn had the upperhand with the bat at the time, but not as good defensively as Womack, and Womack was a great leadoff hitter last Year) 3B: Rolen > Mueller (No arguement) SS: Renteria > Cabrera (argueable, but I think most would agree that Rent is better) LF: Sanders CF: Edmonds > Damon (argueable, but Edmonds is better defesively, better arm, hits for power and average. He's the better player) RF: Walker = Nixon (couldnt really choose one or the other) DH: Taguchi STL: 5 BOS: 3 This is the Offensive comparison. C: Matheny 1B: Pujols > Millar/Mientkiewicz (No arguement) 2B: Womack 3B: Rolen > Mueller (No arguement) SS: Renteria > Cabrera (argueable, but mose would agree with me) LF: Sanders CF: Edmonds > Damon (Edmonds hits for power, average, and is clutch) RF: Walker > Nixon (Nixon was out most of the season, and the postseason they were practically even. Has to go to Walker) DH: Taguchi STL: 5 BOS: 4 This is the Defensive comparison. C: Matheny > Varitek (Seriously...no arguement) 1B: Pujols > Millar (No arguement) Pujols Pujols > Ortiz (No arguement) 2B: Womack > Bellhorn (No arguement) 3B: Rolen = Mueller (I say Rolen personally, but its too close to go with one or the other, and if I went with Roled you guys would tear me a new one) SS: Renteria LF: Sanders > Ramirez (c'mon RSN, lets be serious, Manny is not a good fielder despite his occasional great catches) CF: Edmonds > Damon (close, but I go with Edmonds) RF: Walker = Nixon (again, too close to call with these two) STL: 6 Bos: 2 This is the Pitching comparison. Rotation: Cardinals Middle Relief/Setup: Cardinal = Red Sox (I think King, Kline, Tavarez is as good as Timlin, Embree, Myers, but you could argue either way) Closer: Cardinals STL: 0 BOS: 2 End Tally STL: 16 BOS: 11 ------------------------------------------------ There was probably no point in me posting it because you guys will never accept it, especially since its being posted by a Yankee fan. And you might think it was biased (i dont see how, but im sure you guys will find a way) and Ill probably take a lot of s*** for it, but this is the most nuetral comparison I could think up.

Whoever wins the World Series is the best team? Thats fine, I can live with you guys saying that. But when I asked if you guys would say that if the Yankees won the World Series this year, you guys said no. So make up your f***ing mind. thank you. And Thats exactly what the Red Sox were last year. And because they were hot, they won a championship.

You post on BBF? What name do you post under. Thats the first baseball board I started to consistantly post at. Yea, theres a lot of bitter, die-hard Brooklynites over there, especially DodgerDeb and the gang. And you cant blame them. The absense of the Dodgers is still felt over here. But try to put yourself in their shoes, their team was stolen from right out under them with practically no notice (what was it, a years notice?) which left no time to protest or anything. You are right that MOST Giants fans dont feel that way towards SF. But there are definately some that do. The reasoning I suppose is that the Giants werent as good in the later years in NY as the Dodgers. Also there is no argueing that the Brooklyn fans were 100000 X more passionate than the Giants fans. Or at least the majority of them. Because as I said there are still plenty of bitter, die-hard Giant fans.

I understand all of your points, and all fo you guys are entitled to your opinion about Jason, but Its not fair. Nobody can prove that he is doing anything wrong. What if you were blamed for a murder you didnt commit, but a lot of the evidence points to you. But you DID NOT do it. That wouldnt be fair. ..But hey if it walks like a duck, and it sounds like a duck, right?

that is an extremely good point, but the wrath you get when you get caught using steroids again and the wrath you get when you SUCK are completely different.

good stuff Moose. I actually did a lot of background on the Fleet Walker thing. (The first I ever heard of it was in the movie Little Big League years ago) He certainly wasnt a good player. Both him and his brother played on the team (Toledo Blue Stockings I believe). But anyways, good stuff here.

he would be stupid to even consider it and risking getting caught. He would lose his contract, and nobody would ever sign him again, he would have to retire or go play in Japan or something. Plus Jason is a sensitive guy who likes to be liked, he wouldnt exactly be liked if he was doing steroids again. The way I see it, hes innocent until proven guilty. But if he tests positive or it is revealed that he is using again, I will be right along with you guys in the Giambi-bashing marathon that would be taking place.

A lot of people consider Bob Gibson to be one of the best pitchers in the history of baseball. I even had him in my top 10-15. But in thread on another board I post on I came across this. He had only two seasons with at least a 150 ERA+ (the same number as Jack Pfiester, the same number as Tim Wakefield, the same number as Dutch Leonard (no, not even that Dutch Leonard), one fewer than Russ Ford, half what Joe Wood had, and a solid 28% of Matty's (Christy Matthewson) total. He only finished higher than 4th in WHIP once. He never led his league in K rate. Gibson's numbers look great, because he played in a pitcher's era. He had his best years in Busch, a pitcher's park. Very, very good pitcher. Good enough to lick Mathewson's shoes? No thank you. Note, this is not posted by me, it is a post by somebody else. But when you look at the numbers this is a great post. (BTW: this was a thread about Christy Matthewson and where he ranks among the best pitchers in the history of the game)

That is absolutely correct, but somebody claimed that the Red Sox were the best team in baseball last year and I had to argue it.I am not trying to diminish their title in any way, shape, or form.

Actually I thought it was pretty funny...and btw, im already calm

I wasnt trying to compare the two teams, I was simply trying to make my point that the best team in baseball doesnt always win the World Series, like you guys claimed was the case last year with the Sox.

You're proving my point exactly (the same point ive been trying to make for about 3 pages now), that the best team in baseball doesnt always necessarily win the World Series. The Red Sox were a .500 club for half of the season last year. They didnt even win their division. To me, a team that plays decent ball for a significant part of the season and doesnt even win their division cant be the best team in baseball. But what you guys were argueing for the entire thread is that becase the Sox won the World Series, that they were the best team in the league. Now right here I proposed that if the Yankees win the Series this year that you declare them the best team in the league (just as you did with Boston last year), and you declined. Which I cant blame you, myself being a Yankee fan, it would be ludicrous for anybody to say that they are the best team in the league for the year 2005. So like i've been saying all thread, the Red Sox were not the best team in baseball in the year 2004, however they were the best team in baseball in the postseason And isnt it funny that I was argueing that the Cardinals were the best team in baseball last year, btu all of you said that its not fair to say that because they didnt play AL teams (except for the short interleague season of coarse) and you cant compare, then you come and say right now that the Cardinals are the best team this year. So for the last time, i am not trying to take anything away from the Boston Red Sox and their 2004 Championship, all I am doing is saying that they were not the best team in baseball last year. And because you said that you wouldnt declare the Yankees the best team in baseball for 2005 if they won the World Series, you must agree with me that the team that wins the World Series isnt necessarily the best team in baseball (The 2004 Boston Red Sox).

im just in disbelief, I dont understand how somebody could say a team that hus been this bad is the best in the league, even if they win the series...but whatever. Hopefully we can drop this.

Aaron Small is not homegrown, he's a journeyman. And Cano wasnt called up because of injury, he was called up because of lack of production. But I see your point. One Red Seat: Frankly. I cant help to call "Red Sox Nation" ignorant sometimes. Some Sox fans just display it so well. But thats not the picture im trying to paint about every person who roots for Boston, because some aren't that ignorant at all.