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    After A Rough Few Months Is It Time For Alex Cora To Be On The Hot Seat?

    As the Red Sox continue to play consistently inconsistent baseball, might it be time for the organization to look for someone else to manage the club?

    Nick John
    Image courtesy of © David Butler II-Imagn Images

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    Since being hired before the 2018 season, Alex Cora has led the Boston Red Sox as manager, excluding his suspension during the 2020 season, but now it may be time for a different voice. Everyone remembers Cora positively for how 2018 ended with the greatest Red Sox team of all time winning the World Series; unfortunately, things have not been as positive since.

    2019 saw the Red Sox under Cora attempt to repeat, but it’s never easy, and the team struggled with injuries and inconsistencies. The team saw injuries to the rotation as Chris Sale, David Price, and Nathan Eovaldi pitched in 25 or fewer games, with Eovaldi bouncing between the rotation and bullpen. Offensively, the team received only six games out of Dustin Pedroia, 29 games from Steve Pearce, and 91 games from Mitch Moreland. And yet they still had career years from Christian Vázquez, Xander Bogaerts, Rafael Devers, Eduardo Rodríguez, and Brandon Workman. There were great seasons from Mookie Betts and J.D. Martinez, while also getting a quality rookie season from Michael Chavis.

    And still, the team only won 84 games that season.

    2020 was a lost season. Cora was suspended and fired before the season even began due to the 2017 Astros’ cheating scandal. Then, the season was shortened due to COVID-19, limiting it to 60 games plus an expanded playoff. The Sox would stumble through that season before Chaim Bloom rehired Cora in 2021.

    Cora seemed to turn the team around, leading a team that had no reason to be only two games away from the World Series. The roster differed from his 2018 championship team as Betts, Andrew Benintendi, Moreland, Price, and Jackie Bradley Jr. were all gone. Chris Sale was returning from Tommy John surgery and made nine starts for the team. And yet Cora managed to keep the team over-performing as they were in contention for the division until the last few weeks of the season. They got into the playoffs as a wild card team and knocked the Yankees out of the playoffs in the Wild Card Game before taking the Tampa Bay Rays out in the Division Series. Eventually, their magic ran out, and they lost in six games during the Championship Series to the Houston Astros.

    Since then, the team has struggled. The Red Sox under Cora have not been above .500 since 2021, the closest being when they went 81-81 in 2024.

    The usual complaints were that the Red Sox dealt with injuries and didn’t have the depth or the players to make a playoff run. There was no debate as the pitching failed to hold up in 2022 and 2023, as both seasons ended with the same record of 78-84. However, the story couldn’t be different. In 2022, the Red Sox had 52 wins heading into the trade deadline and were indecisive on what to do. They sold off Vázquez to the Houston Astros, getting back two prospects in Wilyer Abreu and Enmanuel Valdez. They also brought in Eric Hosmer, Reese McGuire, and Tommy Pham to try and strengthen the team for a playoff run.

    They collapsed down the season, winning only 27 games across August, September, and October as the pitching failed to hold up.

    2023 was much of the same. Gone was veteran Bogaerts, who Red Sox ownership let sign with San Diego for an 11-year, $280 million contract. He was replaced at shortstop by Kiké Hernández, who was awful defensively. Things were still a struggle on the pitching side as not a single starter had an ERA under 4.00. And despite that, the Red Sox were still in contention. With 56 wins entering the trade deadline, the Red Sox were only 2 ½ games out of a playoff spot and, unlike previous seasons, had a farm system with prospects that could either help at the major league level or be packaged in a trade.

    Cora made it known which way he wanted the team to head in as he said to MassLive’s Chris Cotillo, “We’re in a good place. But at the end of the day, the place that we would like to play is in October. It’s not about how many prospects you have or where your farm system is. It might be No. 1 or 30th or whatever. The one that counts is how many games you win in October and how many games you play in October. That’s what we’re shooting for.”

    At the time, Cora had every right to say that, especially as his team was fighting for a playoff spot after missing the postseason the prior season. They needed help, and they wanted it. They wanted the organization to say they believed the 2023 team could make the playoffs and compete for the World Series. Instead, Bloom failed to address the issues on the team, mostly surrounding the pitching, and the Red Sox collapsed down the stretch once more, winning only 22 games from August 1st until the end of the season.

    Bloom would be relieved of his position before the end of the season, and a report from The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal didn’t come as a surprise when he wrote that “on the surface, the two seemed to co-exist professionally. But friends of Bloom, who spoke on condition of anonymity in exchange for their candor, believe Cora was not as supportive of Bloom as he could have been”. It isn’t a surprise that Cora wanted to win, and while Bloom did too, he didn’t make the moves Cora wanted to improve the roster. Instead, he wanted to build it up from within and support the next core with free agent signings.

    Bloom would not see his vision through, and Craig Breslow was hired as the President of Baseball Operations for the Boston Red Sox. While Breslow made moves by replacing Dave Bush as pitching coach with Andrew Bailey, 2024 turned into more of the same.

    While the team finished with an 81-81 record, the second-half collapse was the same as the past three seasons. At the end of July, the team had 57 wins, yet they finished down the stretch poorly, only winning 24 games, as once again the pitching collapsed. Unlike Bloom, Breslow did make moves. He brought in James Paxton, Luis Garcia, and Lucas Sims to try and bolster the pitching staff while also trading for Danny Jansen to be the backup catcher.

    After missing the playoffs for three straight seasons, the team finally got aggressive in the offseason. They traded for Garrett Crochet and signed Aroldis Chapman, Alex Bregman, and Walker Buehler. They got the big names they hadn’t signed in previous years, and now the roster was ready to compete.

    And yet on May 25th, the Red Sox now sit 27-28 after splitting a four-game series with the 18-34 Baltimore Orioles. In a 10-game homestand against the Atlanta Braves, New York Mets, and Baltimore Orioles, the team only went 5-5, and something has to give.

    While the team has dealt with injuries, this consistent inconsistency has been a staple of the 2025 season and even longer, dating back to 2022. The pitching fails to go deep into games, the bullpen is overtaxed and mismanaged at times, and the offense can completely vanish at times when needed. In this homestand alone, the Red Sox scored two or fewer runs in five games. In May, they’ve scored two or fewer runs in nine games so far.

    And the one constant since 2022 is the manager, Alex Cora. I’m not calling for him to be fired, but you must start discussing it. The Red Sox have not played very well, and many of their mistakes (fielding, baserunning, starters failing to go deep into games) fall on the coaching staff. The team has changed its pitching coach and defense coaches, yet the same mistakes are happening. It’s a sign of the culture within the team, one that the manager sets. One thing that Cora cannot change is that it might be time for a change in managers.

    Cora can be a skilled manager; there’s no debating that. Sometimes he’s shown it by getting the most out of his players and winning games he had no business winning. But then there are times when you can’t help but question what he’s doing by pulling a pitcher early or handling the bullpen poorly in different situations. A key example being when he brought Sean Newcomb, a guy who pitches when the Sox are up or down by a lot, into a close game with runners on the corners. Or having exhausted his bullpen so much that he needs to rely on Brennan Bernardino and Luis Guerrero for high-leverage innings. But ever since winning the World Series in 2018, he’s had numbers that would have fired other managers. A manager who has better numbers than he did gets fired.

    Let’s look at Cora’s numbers since they won in 2018. Since that season, Cora has a .509 winning percentage, one postseason appearance, two last-place finishes, and three losing seasons. John Farrell's predecessor also won it in his first season in Boston in 2013. After that, he managed four more seasons before being replaced by Cora after 2017. In those four seasons, Farrell had a .517 winning percentage, two division titles, two last-place finishes, and three losing seasons.

    If that could get Farrell fired, why hasn’t there been a discussion about Cora being on the hot seat? There is too much talent on this team for them to struggle this consistently through not just 2025 but since 2022. The Red Sox have had three different people run the baseball operations under Cora, with Dave Dombrowski and Bloom being seen as the problems. Should the team keep losing, will Breslow be viewed as the issue? Coaching-wise, Cora has had three bench coaches, two third base coaches, five first base coaches, two hitting coaches, and three pitching coaches, which shows that the team will replace the coaches around Cora should they fail to produce the desired results.

    On the defensive side, José David Flores and Kyle Hudson handle the infield and outfield defense, respectively, the former taking over for Andy Fox, who had been in that position since 2022. Pitching-wise, the team viewed a need to change it up and bring in Bailey, who had done a magnificent job with San Francisco’s pitchers. That hasn’t been replicated in Boston.

    So, who’s to blame this time around? They got Cora the players he wanted, and last year, they changed the coaching staff. Now, the team is still mediocre. Something has to give; either the team starts winning, or John Henry and Breslow must start discussing what to do with Cora and his staff. The Red Sox have too much talent in their organization to let this continue.

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    On 5/27/2025 at 11:15 AM, mvp 78 said:

    The only reason he's the "third most likely hire" is because you believe it to be true.

    Cora was the bench coach for a team that won 100 games and the World Series. He was always seen as a guy that was destined to be manager.

    After Ausmus took over the Tigers gig, they went from winning playoff rounds every year, to being swept in the first round in year one and being out of the playoffs in his last three seasons (under .500 twice). He has not had a managerial job since then.

    Gardenhire's last 4 seasons in MINN: 63, 66, 66 and 70 wins. How'd it work out at his DET gig? He had a .373 winning percentage. Seems like the Sox made the right call out of those three. 

    Wow.   I guess the players didn't have anything to do with the success of each team.  When someone thinks the manager is that important, it's hard to use logic to convince you otherwise.  I get you are a Cora fan.  I'm not a Cora fan based on his performance, not the team's performance.  

    I've learned in the short time I've been on the website, people with strong opinions about people are not open to the facts so I'm good with you believing Cora is something completely different than I believe.  I watched him play and didn't respect his work ethic.  I watched him be a bench coach inventing ways to cheat and I've watch him make daily mistakes as a manager.  That's good enough for me to draw the conclusion that he's not only a bad human being who cheats but he's also a terrible manager and player.

    Therefore, I agree to disagree with you.  Thanks for your opinion.

     

    9 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

    How would a new manager change this team? I always thought the Blue Jays played bad baseball under Montoyo and the team (specifically their young stars) underperformed because of him. Turns out, many of those guys were just kind of overrated. 

    The change of manages won't change the culture too much but it might significantly improve Breslow's chances of being successful.  He needs to pick a manager he's confident in, that he has worked with before and trusts his knowledge.  He must have observed the tricks that Cora has pulled under DD and Bloom and played the long game to gain full control that a GM should have.  If Cora is moved elsewhere not promoted, then Breslow won the chess game, but it took entirely too long for the Red Sox fans.

    I say let Breslow make this his team and then measure his success on his choices.  Nothing is guaranteed but if you look at what Boche did in Texas because he brought his pitching coaches to a team that needed better infrastructure, I think that could happen if Breslow can go get the manager he wants and bring the coaching staff that they can influence to join the Red Sox in  addition to the guys Breslow has already brought.  There is no guarantee that will work every year because of injuries but Texas is significantly better than it was before Boche.  

    On 5/27/2025 at 8:12 AM, TedYazPapiMookie said:

    Interesting review of Cora's days in Boston.  He came to Boston an unqualified manager who got to inherit a phenomenal team because diversity was a hot topic and the Latin players had issues with a manager who didn't speak Spanish in the United States on an American team.  Enter the bilingual Cora with the gift of gab for the reporters, his bleeding heart for cast away bench guys like he was and a knack for cheating.  It was a perfect storm to hand Dombrowski and force down his throat.  What did Dombrowski do, like the professional he is, he went out and got Cora a guy named JD Martinez to completely stack an already very talented offense and add him to his already stacked pitching staff.  Even Cora couldn't lose with the 2018 team and so many times it sure seemed like he was trying to lose to keep his bench players liking him.  There was nothing a bench jockey like Cora could teach a Mookie Betts or Bogey or JD and so Cora simply had to fill out the line-up card and not make too many in game mistakes.  

    After the players won the rings, he made one of his biggest mistakes by telling the SPs to show up to Spring Training late and the rest is history.  2019 was Cora's disaster first ruining the start of the season, then ruining his newly re-signed star pitcher's elbow with some sage pitching advice from a back-up infielder.  Then the world found out Cora had no character or integrity, and the owners apologized to him for having to fire him with the promise of hiring him back.  2020 was a disaster as we watched the best player since Ted Williams get shipped out by the new henchman hired to dismantle the 2018 champs.  It took him four years, but Bloom destroyed the organization with his poor signings or lack of signings and then he stuck a stake through the heart of fans by paying the worst 3B in history over $30Million a year for a decade when he was nothing more than an above average hitter who couldn't play defense. 

    Cora managed as status quo during the Bloom dismantling.  They didn't seem to get along any better than Dombrowski and Cora all because Cora liked to have a direct line to the owners circumventing his bosses.   When Bloom got fired Cora should have gone too for completely different reasons.  Bloom dismantled the talent and Cora never learned how to do any aspect of managing other than meeting with the press and keeping the bench players happy.  He never learned how to set a line-up.  He never learned how to handle a pitching staff.  He never knew when to play small ball or go for the big inning.  He simply coasted in his cushy job and dodged bullets from the press when he made his many mistakes.  Status quo worked for him because he never had a work ethic when he played and he didn't have one as a manager.  He just wanted to be liked by everyone.

    Now Breslow has provided TWO key replacements for Betts, JD, Bogaerts, Benny, Price, Sale and Eovaldi:  Crochet and Bregman.  The Bregman add was a double bonus by eliminating Devers' baseball glove.  This team got upgraded significantly but if you look at the 2018 versus this team you can still see a big gap in talent that needs to be filled with experience from some of the early draft choices made by Bloom when he was tanking the team.  There is a light at the end of the tunnel, but we really don't want to have the train driven by Cora anymore.  It's time to get a fresh, unbiased face who chooses his line-up based on talent and not nepotism, country of origin or previous relationships.  We need a manager that understands the TEAM concept so guys like Devers don't continue to develop from the farm system.  When Mayer commented about how great he is, it was a red flag that the Devers farm player pedestal still exists, and it sets expectations of player privileges that should not exist.

    Breslow played his cards well because there were two massive problems when he got his job.  1 - Devers playing 3B and 2 - Cora being the manager.  The pitching staff improved when  Breslow brought in his people and it's too bad he couldn't immediately bring in his own manager.  I think it would have shown ownership it was time to invest in the team again but instead Cora led the team to another mediocre season in 2024.  Now it's happening again in 2025.  It's time to part ways with Cora and bring in an experienced manager with a working relationship with Breslow.  It needs to be his call because if it doesn't work, there is nobody to blame other than him.  No more focusing on diversity instead of baseball.  The fans want the most qualified manager not the best connected.

    I guess we really have observed radically different scenarios under Cora but we both have come to the same conclusion for the future.

     

    This is genuinely nuts.

    1. Cora was extremely qualified - or more to the point, about as qualified as you're going to get for a first time manager.  He was a bench coach for a good team, a personnel guy in Puerto Rico - and yeah, the media stuff doesn't hurt given the media obligations here.  

    2. You can't REALLY sit here and say the rosters of the most recent teams were good enough to match up with the best in the league.  This does not absolve Cora of some blame, but this is clearly a personnel thing.  

    3. Even if we wanted to buy this crazy diversity theory - it would not explain why the team rehired Cora after the suspension.

    4. I guarantee you that Alex Cora is not the reason Trevor Story forgot how to hit a baseball.  Seriously.  

    25 minutes ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

    The change of manages won't change the culture too much but it might significantly improve Breslow's chances of being successful.  He needs to pick a manager he's confident in, that he has worked with before and trusts his knowledge.  He must have observed the tricks that Cora has pulled under DD and Bloom and played the long game to gain full control that a GM should have.  If Cora is moved elsewhere not promoted, then Breslow won the chess game, but it took entirely too long for the Red Sox fans.

    I say let Breslow make this his team and then measure his success on his choices.  Nothing is guaranteed but if you look at what Boche did in Texas because he brought his pitching coaches to a team that needed better infrastructure, I think that could happen if Breslow can go get the manager he wants and bring the coaching staff that they can influence to join the Red Sox in  addition to the guys Breslow has already brought.  There is no guarantee that will work every year because of injuries but Texas is significantly better than it was before Boche.  

    Counterpoint:  Corey Seager is better than any player the Red Sox have.  And the most critical pitching addition Texas had was a guy the Red Sox drove to the airport. 

    2 hours ago, sk7326 said:

    This is genuinely nuts.

    1. Cora was extremely qualified - or more to the point, about as qualified as you're going to get for a first time manager.  He was a bench coach for a good team, a personnel guy in Puerto Rico - and yeah, the media stuff doesn't hurt given the media obligations here.  

    2. You can't REALLY sit here and say the rosters of the most recent teams were good enough to match up with the best in the league.  This does not absolve Cora of some blame, but this is clearly a personnel thing.  

    3. Even if we wanted to buy this crazy diversity theory - it would not explain why the team rehired Cora after the suspension.

    4. I guarantee you that Alex Cora is not the reason Trevor Story forgot how to hit a baseball.  Seriously.  

    1 - No experience as a manager is NO EXPERIENCE as a manager.  Bench coaching is coddling players and educating them on how to cheat.  Media compatible is where on your list of managerial skills?  It's not near the top for me.

    2 - The Red Sox roster was off the charts in 2018.  In 2019 too except Cora screwed up ST by asking SPs to show up 2 weeks late since they pitched in November!!!  Who does that except a manager who is clueless.  Once DD was fired in 2019, the roster was dismantled by Bloom and I don't hold Cora responsible for the results.

    3 - I have a crazier theory on why he was rehired.  It made absolutely no sense to support a guy who cheated in up 90 games including the playoff games AGAINST BOSTON where Sale suddenly got rocked like never before.  Cora had saved the owners money and dignity by lying to the commissioner about the Red Sox scandal that he was a part of.  My theory is Cora went behind DD's back to implement the Video Room scheme, but he let ownership (Henry) know about it because they became very close after he made Cora his token effort at diversity.  By forcing the whistle blowers to recant their original stories and by working with the Players Association with a gag order to all players the commissioner had no evidence despite everyone knowing they did it and Cora was involved.  Payback for his part in the cover-up got the guy guilty of the biggest scandal in baseball history in Houston a reprieve from Baseball Jail and a job in Boston as payback for all he did for Henry.

    4 - Never said a word about Story.  That is just a hyperbole to over emphasize your argument.  I already stated that I don't blame Cora for Bloom's many, many mistakes.  To me Cora and A Boone are the two worst managers in baseball.  Both are considered less serious brother in baseball families where they were known for shortcuts instead of hard work.  Both have many, many connections inside the industry that allowed them to get offers they weren't qualified for, and both are social animals whose top skill is the gift of gab but clearly not the gift of managing. 

    2 hours ago, sk7326 said:

    Counterpoint:  Corey Seager is better than any player the Red Sox have.  And the most critical pitching addition Texas had was a guy the Red Sox drove to the airport. 

    Counterpoint to what?  Seager and Semien were both better than Devers and Duran when they went to Texas.  That is why Boche signed up in Texas.  He also got deGrom.  Cora came to Boston with Mookie, Bogey, Benny, Price, Sale and they added JD and Kimbrell.  The 2018 Red Sox were much, much better than the 2023 roster of the Rangers and Boche won with less but there was a huge jump in wins with Boche that is evidence of the impact of adding players and a great manager.  The 2017 Red Sox with an excellent manager that had pitching experience was a very strong roster that won the division that just needed someone to replace Papi and no cheating from Houston to win in 2018.  DD got JD to replace Papi and the rest is history. 

    FYI.... You could have managed the 2018 and won more than 108 games!!

    If the argument for Cora being a good manager is winning a World Series with the 2018 team, that isn’t a great one. That team was absolutely stacked with talent.

    However, he does deserve credit for some of the moves he made, especially during the run. IE. Pinch hitting for a young Devers who was having a good playoffs with Eduardo Nunez and Nunez delivering a 3 run homer was ballsy. 

    4 hours ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

    The change of manages won't change the culture too much but it might significantly improve Breslow's chances of being successful.  He needs to pick a manager he's confident in, that he has worked with before and trusts his knowledge.  He must have observed the tricks that Cora has pulled under DD and Bloom and played the long game to gain full control that a GM should have.  If Cora is moved elsewhere not promoted, then Breslow won the chess game, but it took entirely too long for the Red Sox fans.

    I say let Breslow make this his team and then measure his success on his choices.  Nothing is guaranteed but if you look at what Boche did in Texas because he brought his pitching coaches to a team that needed better infrastructure, I think that could happen if Breslow can go get the manager he wants and bring the coaching staff that they can influence to join the Red Sox in  addition to the guys Breslow has already brought.  There is no guarantee that will work every year because of injuries but Texas is significantly better than it was before Boche.  

    When I think of the type of manager I want for the Red Sox, Bruce Boche is the first to come to mind. 

    10 hours ago, sk7326 said:

    This is genuinely nuts.

    1. Cora was extremely qualified - or more to the point, about as qualified as you're going to get for a first time manager.  He was a bench coach for a good team, a personnel guy in Puerto Rico - and yeah, the media stuff doesn't hurt given the media obligations here.  

    2. You can't REALLY sit here and say the rosters of the most recent teams were good enough to match up with the best in the league.  This does not absolve Cora of some blame, but this is clearly a personnel thing.  

    3. Even if we wanted to buy this crazy diversity theory - it would not explain why the team rehired Cora after the suspension.

    4. I guarantee you that Alex Cora is not the reason Trevor Story forgot how to hit a baseball.  Seriously.  

    On point 2:

    2022- team of expiring contracts and starting pitchers that couldn't stay healthy (or had a history of doing so), stayed close near the deadline but the CBO chose to do nothing of significance except trade the starting catcher 

    2023- Kluber was the Opening Day Starter, the 2b with the most appearances had -0.2 bwar (Arroyo), the SS with the most appearances had -0.6 bwar (Kiké)

    2024 - another season with no plan for 2b, early injury took out SS for the year, pitching was healthier but faded badly after the All Star break which was unsurprising giving the lack of career innings thrown by the starters

    2023 was obviously the worst setup of the previous three teams. The other two are similar, but had two unique issues. The '22 team should have just sold off prior to the deadline when they were securely in a playoff position. Instead, they went over the CBT because of the dumb JBJ trade. The '24 team seemed primed to compete, but another Story and Casas extended vacation exposed a lot of their depth issues at the high minors. Without a plan at 2b, they became too weak up the middle overnight. Hamilton did have a hot stretch in the middle of the season, but it was bookended by equally brutal stretches. Were these teams ready for the playoffs coming out of Spring Training? They had an outside shot at it, BUT NEEDED EVERYTHING TO BREAK RIGHT. That means they were closer to a .500 team than we wanted to believe. 

    Cora said after the game yesterday that Milwaukee played better team fundamental baseball than we did. He said the game was close, but we didn’t play good, and we got to do better. Right? At least he didn’t say we competed well. This is 4 years in a row now we’ve heard these things, so why change the status quo?🤭🤭

    8 hours ago, Jasonbay44 said:

    If the argument for Cora being a good manager is winning a World Series with the 2018 team, that isn’t a great one. That team was absolutely stacked with talent.

    However, he does deserve credit for some of the moves he made, especially during the run. IE. Pinch hitting for a young Devers who was having a good playoffs with Eduardo Nunez and Nunez delivering a 3 run homer was ballsy. 

    He was good in '21 as well. He's been given a pretty tough hand from Bloom and Breslow. Looking at the lineups he's had to run out, especially in the middle of the field, it's not surprising that they've been a middling team. If you give him an above average team, he can make in game moves to put them over the top. If you give him a .500 team, they are going to stay .500. 

    1 minute ago, Old Red said:

    Cora said after the game yesterday that Milwaukee played better team fundamental baseball than we did. He said the game was close, but we didn’t play good, and we got to do better. Right? At least he didn’t say we competed well. This is 4 years in a row now we’ve heard these things, so why change the status quo?🤭🤭

    My concern is that fundamentals don't start the second you reach MLB. These are things that should be worked on as they are in the lower levels of the org. I worry that there's more concern about focusing on maxing exit velo than spending a few extra minutes to go over sac bunts and other things that have been lost over the past 30 years. The lack of fundamentals aren't strictly a Red Sox issue, it's a problem all across MLB.

    11 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

    My concern is that fundamentals don't start the second you reach MLB. These are things that should be worked on as they are in the lower levels of the org. I worry that there's more concern about focusing on maxing exit velo than spending a few extra minutes to go over sac bunts and other things that have been lost over the past 30 years. The lack of fundamentals aren't strictly a Red Sox issue, it's a problem all across MLB.

    That may all be true, but bad fundamentals have made the Red Sox a 500 team, or below now for 4 years in  row, and nothing has changed, or worked to get batter.

    8 hours ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

    Counterpoint to what?  Seager and Semien were both better than Devers and Duran when they went to Texas.  That is why Boche signed up in Texas.  He also got deGrom.  Cora came to Boston with Mookie, Bogey, Benny, Price, Sale and they added JD and Kimbrell.  The 2018 Red Sox were much, much better than the 2023 roster of the Rangers and Boche won with less but there was a huge jump in wins with Boche that is evidence of the impact of adding players and a great manager.  The 2017 Red Sox with an excellent manager that had pitching experience was a very strong roster that won the division that just needed someone to replace Papi and no cheating from Houston to win in 2018.  DD got JD to replace Papi and the rest is history. 

    FYI.... You could have managed the 2018 and won more than 108 games!!

    John Farrell managed a nearly identical team in 2017 and won 93 games and went out in the first round (whatever weight you want to give the chaotic postseason).  Alex Cora took that group (well that group plus JD Martinez) - won 108 games and went 11-3 against two fellow 100-win teams and the 2nd best team in the NL.  2018 was a good group on paper sans dout ... but the managerial change took it from a good team to a historically great single season wagon.  In 2019 it faded away for the same reason most seasons go to pot - pitcher injuries. 

    4 minutes ago, Old Red said:

    That may all be true, but bad fundamentals have made the Red Sox a 500 team, or below now for 4 years in  row, and nothing has changed, or worked to get batter.

    Fundamentals aren't the biggest reason the team is a .500 team. If the 2023 team was a strong fundamental team, they still don't make the playoffs. 

    21 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

    He was good in '21 as well. He's been given a pretty tough hand from Bloom and Breslow. Looking at the lineups he's had to run out, especially in the middle of the field, it's not surprising that they've been a middling team. If you give him an above average team, he can make in game moves to put them over the top. If you give him a .500 team, they are going to stay .500. 

    and honestly, that 2021 team was closer to a .500 team than a 90ish win one in a lot of ways.  

    This season has been frustrating because the underlying stuff has actually not been bad.  The defense is a lot better than it has been, Crochet has been everything you'd want, and Bregman when he was healthy was excellent.  Part of me think this is nothing that a couple of hitting hot streaks can't fix - but it also feels like waiting for a bus that might not show up.  

    5 minutes ago, sk7326 said:

    John Farrell managed a nearly identical team in 2017 and won 93 games and went out in the first round (whatever weight you want to give the chaotic postseason).  Alex Cora took that group (well that group plus JD Martinez) - won 108 games and went 11-3 against two fellow 100-win teams and the 2nd best team in the NL.  2018 was a good group on paper sans dout ... but the managerial change took it from a good team to a historically great single season wagon.  In 2019 it faded away for the same reason most seasons go to pot - pitcher injuries. 

    Always good to have a voice of sanity here. 

    27 minutes ago, Old Red said:

    Cora said after the game yesterday that Milwaukee played better team fundamental baseball than we did. He said the game was close, but we didn’t play good, and we got to do better. Right? At least he didn’t say we competed well. This is 4 years in a row now we’ve heard these things, so why change the status quo?🤭🤭

    I get what you're saying, it sounds all too familiar, but I'm not sure what else he's supposed to say.  He could go all Hal McRae, but I don't think that would accomplish much either.

     

    5 minutes ago, sk7326 said:

    and honestly, that 2021 team was closer to a .500 team than a 90ish win one in a lot of ways.  

    This season has been frustrating because the underlying stuff has actually not been bad.  The defense is a lot better than it has been, Crochet has been everything you'd want, and Bregman when he was healthy was excellent.  Part of me think this is nothing that a couple of hitting hot streaks can't fix - but it also feels like waiting for a bus that might not show up.  

    Hard to wait on a hot streak if the Sox are going to call up a bunch of young guys. This team is giving 2014 vibes (young guys added, but the team isn't there yet and it may take another year or two to really figure out). 

    10 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

    Fundamentals aren't the biggest reason the team is a .500 team. If the 2023 team was a strong fundamental team, they still don't make the playoffs. 

    Being fundamentally bad is not the biggest reason the 500 has been a 500, or below team for 4 years in a row now, but it certainly hasn’t helped.

    4 minutes ago, Old Red said:

    Being fundamentally bad is not the biggest reason the 500 has been a 500, or below team for 4 years in a row now, but it certainly hasn’t helped.

    We haven't been exceptionally good at anything, when you get right down to it.

    4 minutes ago, Old Red said:

    Being fundamentally bad is not the biggest reason the 500 has been a 500, or below team for 4 years in a row now, but it certainly hasn’t helped.

    It hasn't helped and it makes for an ugly game to watch. 💯

    I'm willing to buy into a conspiracy theory that the Red Sox organization has bought in too much on purely data-driven approaches at the expense of other areas of the game.   I'm even willing to agree that the Jim Rice incident was concerning.

    1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

    We haven't been exceptionally good at anything, when you get right down to it.

    Some of the home run celebrations have been good! 

    Laundry Cart: 5/5

    Marathon Medal: 2/5

    Plastic Weights: 1/5

    Decapitated Wally Head: 6/5

    2 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

    I'm willing to buy into a conspiracy theory that the Red Sox organization has bought in too much on purely data-driven approaches at the expense of other areas of the game.   I'm even willing to agree that the Jim Rice incident was concerning.

    They've laid off a lot of scouts and are deferring to the models. We'll see how it works out in the long run, but I think a team with a lot of money should use scouting AND data together. It's not either or! 

    I've been a big Cora supporter, as I was with Tito, but sometimes a change is needed, even if just "change for change's sake."

    I'm not saying I'm on the fire Cora bandwagon, yet, but I'm as close as ever, and the wagon is already weighted down with posters and fans.

    47 minutes ago, Old Red said:

    That may all be true, but bad fundamentals have made the Red Sox a 500 team, or below now for 4 years in  row, and nothing has changed, or worked to get batter.

    Can we meet in the middle that bad fundamentals have made contributed to the Sox being a 500 team or below

    I dont want to dismiss your point, but if presented as the sole reason, I cant get behind it.  It was also (in my eyes) complacency with mediocrity (e.g. not aggressively pursuing deadline upgrades, keeping mediocre players like Verdugo around for too long...)

    32 minutes ago, Old Red said:

    Being fundamentally bad is not the biggest reason the 500 has been a 500, or below team for 4 years in a row now, but it certainly hasn’t helped.

    Nevermind, looks like you were already there (see my previous post)

    25 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

    I'm willing to buy into a conspiracy theory that the Red Sox organization has bought in too much on purely data-driven approaches at the expense of other areas of the game.   I'm even willing to agree that the Jim Rice incident was concerning.

    Who are you, Jesse the Body?




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