Red Sox (May) vs Yankees (Rodon): 8/24/25, 7:10pm

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Fangraphs say 16 runs saved and 16 Outs Above Average in just 907 innings. He might be at 20 had he played CF full time.

If you count those as RBIs, he'd be second on the team in RBIs. If you counted them as runs scored, he'd be our runs leader by a lot.

A run saved defensively is equal to a run scored offensively, which you described much better.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

Moon, you're the real Stats Masterson.

It stems from my OCD, but numbers don't crowd my enjoyment of the game on a personal level. I played the game, a lot. Later, I played softball for many years, which is not the same, but some of the basics apply to both.

I love the game.

I was much better at basketball and football, but my love is baseball.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

7 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It stems from my OCD, but numbers don't crowd my enjoyment of the game on a personal level. I played the game, a lot. Later, I played softball for many years, which is not the same, but some of the basics apply to both.

I love the game.

I was much better at basketball and football, but my love is baseball.

I was average when I played highschool baseball and basketball. Otoh, I was a very good bowler. I bowled in many leagues over the years and averaged about 185. I only bowled in one league a week, I never practiced and I even used rented shoes.

The truth is I just never loved bowling enough to take it seriously. I bowled in leagues mainly for the beer.

[moonslav59]

16 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

A run saved defensively is equal to a run scored offensively, which you described much better.

I sucked at hitting but was very good on D and baserunning. I walked enough to help me stay a starter.

I've always loved defense, so maybe I'm biased.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

I sucked at hitting but was very good on D and baserunning. I walked enough to help me stay a starter.

I've always loved defense, so maybe I'm biased.

My highschool baseball coach told me don't ever lose your glove.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

6 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

My highschool baseball coach told me don't ever lose your glove.

Btw, I used a Wilson Nellie Fox glove that was just a little bit bigger than my hand. I still have it.

[moonslav59]

8 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

I was average when I played highschool baseball and basketball. Otoh, I was a very good bowler. I bowled in many leagues over the years and averaged about 185. I only bowled in one league a week, I never practiced and I even used rented shoes.

The truth is I just never loved bowling enough to take it seriously. I bowled in leagues mainly for the beer.

I improved a lot after high school, but going to Notre Dame made it impossible to ever come close to making a team.

They did have a very competitive interhall league, including football with pads and basketball that included all state players left and right, including some foot ball players. My hall won the Football championship my freshman year (I played WR and DB) and my senior year (I was the QB.) We won the B-ball championship my freshman year and I led the team in scoring in the championship game. (The highlight of my sports career.) At baseball, we were not good. My only shining moments were on defense. I remember making an ungodly throw to home plate in the bottom of the ninth (1 run game), just in time to nail the runner, but the catcher dropped it. Such is life.

Another time, I was in CF and a ball wa s*** over my head and to my right. I turned and ran to the exact spot and turned just in time to see the ball like right next to me, and I stabbed my glove out in a downward motion and somehow caught it on the down swoop.  I'm still not sure how that was humanly possible.

I played a lot of basketball and baseball after college, but after I blew out my knee, it was softball only. I used to watch all sports and dabbled in fantasy football, but now I watch only baseball, a lot.

[FredLynn]

34 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

But he has changed it, and is just 24.

When the league OPS is about .719, why would .720 w GG defense and plus baserunning be the cut off or called a "black hole."

I was a JBJ fan, so I guess we'll never come to a compromise, but average offense, great D and plus running is not a bad thing.

I get the idea of wanting more than mediocre or slightly above mediocre, but I just do not think Rafaela is even close to our weakest link. At 24, I also see a chance to get better, as most players do as they reach 25-29. I also see the whole league moving towards higher K rates, lower OBPs and not-so-great D or running skills.

There should be some context. I guess WAR does not carry much weight with you, but even if you think it is flawed and gives too much value to defense and running, you have to think it is very wrong to not notice how he ranks with other Sox players and MLB CF'ers. His WAR would be even higher, if they kept him in CF every game played.

He has the 3rd best fWAR in MLB in CF. He's -0.7 at 2B. Do the math.

You ask how low I would go, and I'd say .650 to .675, as long as the league OPS stays around .720. BTW, MLB CF'ers have a .682 OPS, this year.

There are 29 CF'ers with 180+ PAs in CF. The 15th highest OPS is .720. You think average sucks. It may not be great, but it doesn't suck, when your D is great at a difficult position. (BTW, Rafaela is batting .790 as a CF'er, but I'm going to claim he will hit that as a FT CF'er.) 7 of the top 30 OF'ers by PAs are batting under .675. There is some context.

Maybe I’ll be pleasantly surprised but I don’t see him significantly improving offensively. It’s possible. I’m not expecting it. If he is league average at OPS I’d play him. That’s .720. Otherwise he’s a late inning defensive replacement on my team unless the rest of the team are mashers. 

At the end of the day you have to be able to score runs. We don’t need another JBJ on the Red Sox.

[moonslav59]

8 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

My highschool baseball coach told me don't ever lose your glove.

My ex threw out my glove, but it's not like I was ever going to play again, at that point.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

21 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

My ex threw out my glove, but it's not like I was ever going to play again, at that point.

How much space was it taking up? Never being married is probably why I still have my glove.

However, my parents threw out my Topps baseball card collection while I was in the service. That really hurt.

[moonslav59]

6 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Maybe I’ll be pleasantly surprised but I don’t see him significantly improving offensively. It’s possible. I’m not expecting it. If he is league average at OPS I’d play him. That’s .720. Otherwise he’s a late inning defensive replacement on my team unless the rest of the team are mashers. 

At the end of the day you have to be able to score runs. We don’t need another JBJ on the Red Sox.

I'm not sure there has ever been a team with above average offense at all 9 positions, but I can see wanting that as a goal.

I think SS, Catcher and CF are positions where defense matters so much, that average or slightly below average is not a bad thing, if the D is near GG quality. Baserunning can add some value, too.

To me, Story, Narvaez and Rafaela all fit the near GG label. Story and Rafaela are plus base runners, so being near average or even a little worse is fine, as long as the other slots have no black holes, To me, a black hole is below .650 for a below average defender and .600 for an average one. .700 is no longer a black hole.

This season the cut off for 270 players (9 players x 30 teams) is 250 PAs. Number 135 is at .733, and this excludes att subs and replacement level players that play a lot. The 5th best player (4 better and 4 worse on each team) ranges from .720 to .740, but of course there are positional variances.

The 6th best batter's range is .702 to .720.

7th best:.677 to .702

8th best: .649 to .677

9th best is .542 to .648 with 10 under .600.

Maybe our differences are based on semantics. What "sucks" for you is an average player. For me, it's a bottom 1/3 or 1/4th batter- relative to others.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

19 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I improved a lot after high school, but going to Notre Dame made it impossible to ever come close to making a team.

They did have a very competitive interhall league, including football with pads and basketball that included all state players left and right, including some foot ball players. My hall won the Football championship my freshman year (I played WR and DB) and my senior year (I was the QB.) We won the B-ball championship my freshman year and I led the team in scoring in the championship game. (The highlight of my sports career.) At baseball, we were not good. My only shining moments were on defense. I remember making an ungodly throw to home plate in the bottom of the ninth (1 run game), just in time to nail the runner, but the catcher dropped it. Such is life.

Another time, I was in CF and a ball wa s*** over my head and to my right. I turned and ran to the exact spot and turned just in time to see the ball like right next to me, and I stabbed my glove out in a downward motion and somehow caught it on the down swoop.  I'm still not sure how that was humanly possible.

I played a lot of basketball and baseball after college, but after I blew out my knee, it was softball only. I used to watch all sports and dabbled in fantasy football, but now I watch only baseball, a lot.

You're a hell of a lot more athletic than Alex Speier. Pretty impressive, Moon.

[moonslav59]

6 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

How much space was it taking up? Never being married is probably why I still have my glove.

However, my parents threw out my Topps baseball collection while I was in the service. That really hurt.

The glove was really beat up and looked useless, but I hate defending her. She knew it had sentimental value and I'd never have done anything like that to her.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

The glove was really beat up and looked useless, but I hate defending her. She knew it had sentimental value and I'd never have done anything like that to her.

Sentimental value is priceless.

[moonslav59]

Just now, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

You're a hell of a lot more athletic than Alex Speier.

I was a very aggressive player who always went all out. I was a bit of a hothead, at times, but the weed mellowed me out.

I was a little overweight in HS, but dropped 30 pounds my freshman year and somehow I got way better at everything. I'm not trying to brag, but I figured I was pretty good when I once asked to be subbed out in that championship b-ball game and the guy on the bench said, "Are you crazy? I'm not going in for YOU!"

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

Sentimental value is priceless.

I admit. I still treasure my sports memories more than anything else- even family and travel adventures. (Just don't tell my current wife I said this!) LOL

[FredLynn]

10 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm not sure there has ever been a team with above average offense at all 9 positions, but I can see wanting that as a goal.

I think SS, Catcher and CF are positions where defense matters so much, that average or slightly below average is not a bad thing, if the D is near GG quality. Baserunning can add some value, too.

To me, Story, Narvaez and Rafaela all fit the near GG label. Story and Rafaela are plus base runners, so being near average or even a little worse is fine, as long as the other slots have no black holes, To me, a black hole is below .650 for a below average defender and .600 for an average one. .700 is no longer a black hole.

This season the cut off for 270 players (9 players x 30 teams) is 250 PAs. Number 135 is at .733, and this excludes att subs and replacement level players that play a lot. The 5th best player (4 better and 4 worse on each team) ranges from .720 to .740, but of course there are positional variances.

The 6th best batter's range is .702 to .720.

7th best:.677 to .702

8th best: .649 to .677

9th best is .542 to .648 with 10 under .600.

Maybe our differences are based on semantics. What "sucks" for you is an average player. For me, it's a bottom 1/3 or 1/4th batter- relative to others.

I wouldn’t expect a team completely made up of above average players. I am quite sure that’s never happened. So as I wrote as long as there aren’t any or many black holes on the team we can afford one or two on our hypothetical championship team. 
My sport in college was hockey. I didn’t play for the college team but I think we were probably just as good. It was an independent league and several of the players went on to play professionally at the Jr A level. Not sure if anyone made it to the NHL. I also played chess in HS and won. National title in my division there along with several New England college championships. 
played a little baseball. Nothing significant. I like wat it but until they sped up the game it was so damn slow….it’s better now.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

I was a very aggressive player who always went all out. I was a bit of a hothead, at times, but the weed mellowed me out.

I was a little overweight in HS, but dropped 30 pounds my freshman year and somehow I got way better at everything. I'm not trying to brag, but I figured I was pretty good when I once asked to be subbed out in that championship b-ball game and the guy on the bench said, "Are you crazy? I'm not going in for YOU!"

Just losing 30 pounds is impressive enough..

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

I admit. I still treasure my sports memories more than anything else- even family and travel adventures. (Just don't tell my current wife I said this!) LOL

My lips are sealed.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Rodon, 2nd to Stanton on my Yankem dislike list.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

1 minute ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

Rodon, 2nd to Stanton on my Yankem dislike list.

Rodon makes Rodan good looking.

[FredLynn]

Now let’s sweep these bastards!

The Yankmees are a good fastball hitting team and May has a good sweeper. If he can locate it today we have a good chance to do it.

[FredLynn]

Anthony called out on two balls out of the zone 

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Another s**t HP chUMP.

[Maxbialystock]

That's the key to getting Anthony out--throw near the bottom of the zone or even a little below it.  In this case it only took 4 straight sinkers and no changeups.  

 

[Jasonbay44]

Of course Eaton comes up with opportunity early and fails to come through. Guy just isn’t an MLB player 

[d-money]

f***ing sucks. Hope May is on his game. 

[d-money]

Gotta throw strikes. Be aggressive. 

[Nineintime]

2 minutes ago, d-money said:

f***ing sucks. Hope May is on his game. 

Has to win the corners like he did last outing.  Minimize walks and start strong early

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Funny, that was called a strike on Anthony.