7/10, Phils @ Sox, 4:00PM Eastern game time

[Maxbialystock]

So it's the top of the 8th, the Sox are down 3-2, which to me means the game is still winnable.

 

I understand bringing Taylor out to face Harper, but not why he was left in afterward. Is Ottavino tired? Injured? I mean, why send Sawamura and Whitlock out there to keep the lid on, and then not use Ottavino in the 8th, which is normally his inning?

[moonslav59]

So it's the top of the 8th, the Sox are down 3-2, which to me means the game is still winnable.

 

I understand bringing Taylor out to face Harper, but not why he was left in afterward. Is Ottavino tired? Injured? I mean, why send Sawamura and Whitlock out there to keep the lid on, and then not use Ottavino in the 8th, which is normally his inning?

 

Taylor is second on the Sox in 8th inning appearances. He's been pitching really well for a long time. Taylor, Ottavino and Barnes have been able to allow a hit or walk or two when they come in and then get out of their own mess.

 

I'm not sure how Cora was supposed to know this was the game that would not happen.

[d-money]

This will be a dogfight till the end. Offense was pathetic today. Rays are creeping close to this team.

[Maxbialystock]

Taylor is second on the Sox in 8th inning appearances. He's been pitching really well for a long time. Taylor, Ottavino and Barnes have been able to allow a hit or walk or two when they come in and then get out of their own mess.

 

I'm not sure how Cora was supposed to know this was the game that would not happen.

 

Against Taylor lefty hitters (51 at bats) have an OPS of .427 and have scored 0 runs. Righty hitters (64 at bats) OPS is .785 and have scored 15 runs. Taylor's ERA at home is 5.06 and on the road 0.00.

 

Against Ottavino lefty hitters (47 at bats) have an OPS of .815 and have scored 7 runs. Right hitters (85 at bats) have an OPS of .464 and have scored 5 runs. His at home ERA is 1.35 and road ERA is 4.50.

[moonslav59]

Against Taylor lefty hitters (51 at bats) have an OPS of .427 and have scored 0 runs. Righty hitters (64 at bats) OPS is .785 and have scored 15 runs. Taylor's ERA at home is 5.06 and on the road 0.00.

 

Against Ottavino lefty hitters (47 at bats) have an OPS of .815 and have scored 7 runs. Right hitters (85 at bats) have an OPS of .464 and have scored 5 runs. His at home ERA is 1.35 and road ERA is 4.50.

 

I have absolutely no issue with Cora's choice. Taylor had been lights out.

 

Plus, he had to face 3 batters, anyway.

[illinoisredsox]

I have absolutely no issue with Cora's choice. Taylor had been lights out.

 

Plus, he had to face 3 batters, anyway.

 

Not if he was removed at the end of the 7th inning. Once he came back out for the 8th, he had to face at least 2 hitters (for a total of 3). Although he never really faced a hitter, since all he did was pick the Phillie off without throwing a pitch. Maybe he did have to face 3.

 

But I agree, Taylor was the guy to go to at that point. He just didn't have it today. It happens.

Edited July 11, 2021 by illinoisredsox

[redsoxrules]

Not if he was removed at the end of the 7th inning. Once he came back out for the 8th, he had to face at least 2 hitters (for a total of 3). Although he never really faced a hitter, since all he did was pick the Phillie off without throwing a pitch. Maybe he did have to face 3.

 

But I agree, Taylor was the guy to go to at that point. He just didn't have it today. It happens.

 

That is incorrect, once the inning in complete the 3 batter rule resets. Essentially he could have been pulled after facing one batter in the 8th.

[TylerD]

Taylor is second on the Sox in 8th inning appearances. He's been pitching really well for a long time. Taylor, Ottavino and Barnes have been able to allow a hit or walk or two when they come in and then get out of their own mess.

 

I'm not sure how Cora was supposed to know this was the game that would not happen.

 

This!

 

Bad games happen from everyone once and a while. Chill out folks. Does it suck losing 3 of our last 4? Absolutely it does but such as life. Still first in the division. Just need to get a win today with our Ace going.

[Maxbialystock]

I have absolutely no issue with Cora's choice. Taylor had been lights out.

 

Plus, he had to face 3 batters, anyway.

 

While I can agree keeping Taylor on the mound in the 8th was not an egregious error, I have presented some pretty good stats which show that Ottavino was the better choice after Taylor, who is a lot better vs. lefties than righties, gave up that leadoff single to Harper in the 8th.

 

Not only is Ottavino better against righties, but he sort of owns the 8th inning in close games and even gets to close games, which Taylor has not been asked to do this season.

[Maxbialystock]

This!

 

Bad games happen from everyone once and a while. Chill out folks. Does it suck losing 3 of our last 4? Absolutely it does but such as life. Still first in the division. Just need to get a win today with our Ace going.

 

What is with this "chill out?" The game was last night, and this is the post mortem part of the game thread. I'm simply saying I expected to see Ottavino on the mound in the 8th inning which is actually pretty normal for the Cora this year. Plus he is much better against righty bats than is Taylor.

 

The one argument I would buy that hasn't been advanced is that the Sox were going to lose this game regardless of who was on the mound because the hitters simply weren't hitting. The box score says the Sox were 0 for 6 with RISP. Vazquez scored the Sox 2d run way, way back in the 3d inning when Knapp's pickoff throw went wild.

 

However, Cora did not manage the bullpen as though he thought winning was not in the cards. Thus Sawamura in to finish the 4th and pitch the 5th, Whitlock (statistically the Sox best reliever) to pitch the 6th and 2 outs in the 7th, Taylor to get the last man, Harper, in the 7th, which he did with a great pickoff move, and bringing Taylor back out to get Harper in the 8th. I hasten to add I agreed with all of those moves by Cora. But I still think bringing Ottavino in after Harper got on base was the best move if we think the game was winnable at that point.

[Bellhorn04]

However, Cora did not manage the bullpen as though he thought winning was not in the cards. Thus Sawamura in to finish the 4th and pitch the 5th, Whitlock (statistically the Sox best reliever) to pitch the 6th and 2 outs in the 7th, Taylor to get the last man, Harper, in the 7th, which he did with a great pickoff move, and bringing Taylor back out to get Harper in the 8th. I hasten to add I agreed with all of those moves by Cora. But I still think bringing Ottavino in after Harper got on base was the best move if we think the game was winnable at that point.

 

It's a valid question. I think you could say Cora was 'playing it halfway'. He was willing to use several of his better relievers to chase a comeback win, but didn't want to burn all of them. He wanted to hold back Ottavino and Barnes for today's game.

[moonslav59]

While I can agree keeping Taylor on the mound in the 8th was not an egregious error, I have presented some pretty good stats which show that Ottavino was the better choice after Taylor, who is a lot better vs. lefties than righties, gave up that leadoff single to Harper in the 8th.

 

Not only is Ottavino better against righties, but he sort of owns the 8th inning in close games and even gets to close games, which Taylor has not been asked to do this season.

 

Your points are well-taken. Maybe, he planned to use Ottavino in the 9th, so Barnes would get more rest.

[Maxbialystock]

Your points are well-taken. Maybe, he planned to use Ottavino in the 9th, so Barnes would get more rest.

 

Agree with both you and bellhorn. I like to debate, but I am also convinced Cora is freaking brilliant. It the Sox were ahead 3-2, Ottavino probably would have gotten the nod in the 8th.

 

As it turned out, the Sox never did score that 3d run, and today Cora has both Ottavino and Barnes. I'd like to say he also has the indomitable Andriese, but sadly he is on the IL.

[moonslav59]

Agree with both you and bellhorn. I like to debate, but I am also convinced Cora is freaking brilliant. It the Sox were ahead 3-2, Ottavino probably would have gotten the nod in the 8th.

 

As it turned out, the Sox never did score that 3d run, and today Cora has both Ottavino and Barnes. I'd like to say he also has the indomitable Andriese, but sadly he is on the IL.

 

I'm not against criticizing specific moves by any manager, but I get defensive, sometimes, because like you, I think Cora & Bloom are brilliant.

 

You have some good points, but we don't know everything. I trust Cora had some good reasons.

 

Maybe he wants Barnes to get some extra rest, since he is taking the trip to the AS game.