Chris Sale needs Tommy John Surgery

[Kimmi]

And why do you put him in the position of going against his employer on a matter covered by his contract -- to prove to you his social awareness? No needed resources were wasted on Sale's surgery.

 

I completely disagree about the needed resources.

 

Sale had no problem going against his employer when he cut up the uniforms. Oddly, many people applaud him for that, for sticking up for his teammates. But we don't think he should stick up for all of those fighting the virus by showing a little selflessness?

[Bellhorn04]

The Surgeon General didn’t ban spending money to go to baseball games during non-pandemic years...

 

Most of this discussion seems to be about moral and ethical responsibilities.

[a700hitter]

It's not because they make a lot of money. It's because they have enough money to live a very comfortable life if they never worked another day. That makes their surgery non-essential.

And the judgment call regarding an individual's means to live comfortably enough to forego future earning ability should be a personal one made by that individual. It is pretty arrogant for others to make that judgment on his behalf.

[Kimmi]

Is it true or not?

 

Not really. I can't speak for others, but I do what I can in terms of 'community service', for lack of a better term. I make sacrifices for the good of others when I can, including donations. Does that mean that I have to donate every penny of spare change that I have to a cause and not be able to enjoy something like a baseball game? I don't think that's a point any of us are trying to make.

[a700hitter]

The Surgeon General didn’t ban spending money to go to baseball games during non-pandemic years...

And he didn't ban these surgeries either.

[Thunder]

I think you're making an awfully big stretch here Bell.

 

I don't think it's a stretch at all

[Bellhorn04]

Not really. I can't speak for others, but I do what I can in terms of 'community service', for lack of a better term. I make sacrifices for the good of others when I can, including donations. Does that mean that I have to donate every penny of spare change that I have to a cause and not be able to enjoy something like a baseball game? I don't think that's a point any of us are trying to make.

 

But we're talking about a few surgical masks, and they just found 39 million of them.

 

The effect of Sale's surgery on the cause was factually inconsequential.

 

This is only about how it looks.

[Kimmi]

Most of this discussion seems to be about moral and ethical responsibilities.

 

It is. I'm not trying to sound like I'm on a moral high horse, but I strongly believe that having TJS during this time is wrong.

[Kimmi]

And the judgment call regarding an individual's means to live comfortably enough to forego future earning ability should be a personal one made by that individual. It is pretty arrogant for others to make that judgment on his behalf.

 

Hmm. What happened to not insulting people who disagree with your opinion?

[a700hitter]

Not really. I can't speak for others, but I do what I can in terms of 'community service', for lack of a better term. I make sacrifices for the good of others when I can, including donations. Does that mean that I have to donate every penny of spare change that I have to a cause and not be able to enjoy something like a baseball game? I don't think that's a point any of us are trying to make.

Delaying these surgeries would have contributed nothing to the cause. It's just a lot of arrogance judging someone else as falling short on social awareness in these cases. Everyone should be a little more concerned about what they can do to help the cause in his/her own community rather than casting aspersions on someone's character for getting a surgery. The whole conversation is so much nonsense.

[a700hitter]

Hmm. What happened to not insulting people who disagree with your opinion?

I am not insulting you. I think it is an arrogant stance for anyone to pass judgment on someone else's character in this situation.

[Kimmi]

But we're talking about a few surgical masks, and they just found 39 million of them.

 

The effect of Sale's surgery on the cause was factually inconsequential.

 

This is only about how it looks.

 

Were the masks found before Sale had his surgery? Regardless, every mask counts. If one extra mask saves one person's life, or even save's one person from having to be hospitalized, thereby freeing up a bed and ventilator for someone else, then it's not inconsequential.

 

I have stated that in the big picture, one mask is inconsequential. On an individual level, it is not.

 

And yes, much of it is about how it looks. It looks terrible, and it sounds a bad message.

[a700hitter]

It is. I'm not trying to sound like I'm on a moral high horse, but I strongly believe that having TJS during this time is wrong.

Wrong based on what? You are questioning him from a moral and ethical standpoint. That is the definition of being on a high horse.

[a700hitter]

Were the masks found before Sale had his surgery? Regardless, every mask counts. If one extra mask saves one person's life, or even save's one person from having to be hospitalized, thereby freeing up a bed and ventilator for someone else, then it's not inconsequential.

 

I have stated that in the big picture, one mask is inconsequential. On an individual level, it is not.

 

And yes, much of it is about how it looks. It looks terrible, and it sounds a bad message.

And the Red Sox didn't care about how it would look, but let's not blow this up into an issue of squandering precious needed supplies. That is hyperbole and not at all accurate.

[notin]

Most of this discussion seems to be about moral and ethical responsibilities.

 

In a very specific climate...

[S5Dewey]

Is it true or not?

 

In a world of absolutes of course it's true. It's also true that hindsight is always 20-20.

 

We all walk a line of spending our money on what we think is necessary and what is frivilous - and there's room for both. Life wouldn't be much fun if we only spent our money on bare necessities. There's no doubt that we could all do without things like Spring Training, or to a lesser degree things like going to the movies or going to restaurants.

 

I believe we all have a 'social contract' with society to do things for the betterment of all, but that doesn't mean everything we do has to be for the betterment of all. As I like to say, "All things in moderation. Even moderation."

[notin]

And the Red Sox didn't care about how it would look, but let's not blow this up into an issue of squandering precious needed supplies. That is hyperbole and not at all accurate.

 

That may not be entirely true.

 

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/chris-sale-able-tommy-john-123654344.html

[Elktonnick]

I caution all of us against getting up on the high horse. I don't think any of us do all that we could in the battle against disease and suffering. The coronavirus is the big deal right now, but disease and suffering never take a break.

 

Elktonnick said he has been going to spring training each year for the last few years, I believe. Couldn't the money he spent on that have been put to better use by donating it to cancer research? The same goes for anyone who spends money watching baseball. I think that takes in just about all of us.

 

You are as clueless as Thunder. You have no idea how much I donate to charity each year. Nor do you have any idea how much of my time is spent doing volunteer work in my community. That it is an absolutely idiotic question.

[Thunder]

You are as clueless as Thunder. You have no idea how much I donate to charity each year. Nor do you have any idea how much of my time is spent doing volunteer work in my community. That it is an absolutely idiotic question.

 

You're the clueless one, because you can't tell he was joking to make a point.

 

And I'd appreciate it if you don't take random shots at me. If we're having a discussion, insult me all you want, but by involving me in a separate debate you are once again showing everybody here how childish and immature you are, yet apparently I'm the clueless immature child? Fascinating

[Elktonnick]

You're the clueless one, because you can't tell he was joking to make a point.

 

And I'd appreciate it if you don't take random shots at me. If we're having a discussion, insult me all you want, but by involving me in a separate debate you are once again showing everybody here how childish and immature you are, yet apparently I'm the clueless immature child? Fascinating

 

You are a sophomoric child who has no life experience. Like I told that young Junior Officer asking for a recommendation for promotion. Come back when you have learned the rest of the alphabet.

[Thunder]

You are a sophomoric child who has no life experience. Like I told that young Junior Officer asking for a recommendation for promotion. Come back when you have learned the rest of the alphabet.

 

Explain to me why you think I'm a "sophmoric child" when you brought me into a discussion by taking an unnecessary shot at me. You've done nothing today other than show me that you're the child. Do mature adults take unnecessary shots at somebody when they don't agree with them? Nope. I apologized for the joke, and said I respected your position, yet you can't let this go. You're the one that needs to learn the alphabet.

[Elktonnick]

Explain to me why you think I'm a "sophmoric child" when you brought me into a discussion by taking an unnecessary shot at me. You've done nothing today other than show me that you're the child. Do mature adults take unnecessary shots at somebody when they don't agree with them? Nope. I apologized for the joke, and said I respected your position, yet you can't let this go. You're the one that needs to learn the alphabet.

I do not recall your apology for the joke. If you did then I regret my including you in my retort to Bellhorn who is totally without a clue and inappropriate.

[Thunder]

I do not recall your apology for the joke. If you did then I regret my including you in my retort to Bellhorn who is totally without a clue and inappropriate.

 

https://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/19750-Chris-Sale-needs-Tommy-John-Surgery?p=1315709&viewfull=1#post1315709

 

Hope we're all good now. No hard feelings

[a700hitter]

That may not be entirely true.

 

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/chris-sale-able-tommy-john-123654344.html

The Red Sox considered how it might look and decided to go ahead with it. It was their decision. There is no reason to cast aspersions at Sale's character.

[notin]

You are a sophomoric child who has no life experience. Like I told that young Junior Officer asking for a recommendation for promotion. Come back when you have learned the rest of the alphabet.

 

Age doesn't always equate to "life experiences." Unfair generalization...

[notin]

The Red Sox considered how it might look and decided to go ahead with it. It was their decision. There is no reason to cast aspersions at Sale's character.

 

Not so much Sale as the Sox and MLB (aka "the employers"), which I have said.

 

ElAttrache clearly sides with you on it not being elective (although he also sought out a location that had not banned elective surgeries). Andrews, on the other hand, does not side with you on that matter...

[Thunder]

Age doesn't always equate to "life experiences." Unfair generalization...

 

We took care of it. I'm not offended. It's all good

[notin]

We took care of it. I'm not offended. It's all good

 

I had not seen that. But I can stand down...

[Thunder]

I had not seen that. But I can stand down...

 

You're not wrong. It's a very offensive generalization but it's fair to say that everyone is all worked up right not with all the uncertainty that's currently in our lives, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt

[Elktonnick]

Age doesn't always equate to "life experiences." Unfair generalization...

 

Age is a pretty good predictor of life experiences. There are of course exceptions. For example, my daughters all have lived through two civil wars, lived in five countries, learned a smattering of Arabic, explored the jungles of South America and are fluent in Spanish, all before they were 18. Their life experiences are not the same as my grandchildren who have never lived anywhere but suburbia and known only prosperity.