Cherrington leading candidate for Pirates Job

[a700hitter]

Well, he did draft Michael Kopech, Logan Allen and Jalen Beeks. It's just that his replacement traded them all away...

Who got drafted after those guys?

[notin]

Who got drafted after those guys?

 

Lots of players. Do you mean in the round by other teams? Or later rounds by the Sox?

[moonslav59]

That's exactly the point. If a contract doesn't work out, it's only for a couple of years.

 

I get the point, but Vic was signed while he was already in decline. Basically, we signed him to 3 years post prime and 0 years in prime. I'm not sure that sounds much better than signing a guy to 5 years prime and 5 years post-prime.

[moonslav59]

Let’s not go overboard with the “best trade in team history.” It was a big deal, and certainly had to be a tough sell. And the Sox did shed a lot of salary, but they also got absolutely nothing back.

 

When it comes to best trades in team history, this one falls far, far short of that one with Pavano and Armas.

 

And that other guy. Peter Martin? Or something like that...

 

1) I said "arguably" ...the best.

2) Getting rid of CC alone for nothing made it a top 5 Sox trade. Beckett was apparently a cancer and went 8-14 in 2.3 yrs in LA. As it turned out, even the AGon part of the deal worked out for us. He ended up with a .793 OPS while making big money.

3) It wasn't ever about what we got back, although Webster and DLR were viewed as decent young pitcher. It was about freeing up budget space, and Ben spent wisely on Vic, Uehara, Napoli and Drew and there's no way we win the ring in 2013 without that trade and those signings. (True, we didn't trade for those guys, but the trade made their signings possible.)

4) I have no issue with calling the Pedro trade the best ever, and maybe even the Schilling trade second best, but I rank the Dodger dump an all time top 3 Sox deal with a significant case to be made it was number one.

[Larry Cook]

Congrats to Ben! Except when they okay us, I wish them all the best.

 

If Ben is looking to load Pittsburgh up with some long term bad contracts and sore armed pitchers, then he needs to call “hang ‘em chiam”.

 

Have we got a deal for you, Ben!!!!

[Slasher9]

Congrats to my Ben.

 

That is all.

 

this.

[a700hitter]

Lots of players. Do you mean in the round by other teams? Or later rounds by the Sox?

Jack Flaherty was taken by the Cards with the next pick after the Red Sox took Kopech. Swing and a miss by Ben. He just doesn't know pitching.

[moonslav59]

Jack Flaherty was taken by the Cards with the next pick after the Red Sox took Kopech. Swing and a miss by Ben. He just doesn't know pitching.

 

I guess everyone else who missed JF doesn't know pitching, either.

 

I would not write off Kopech just yet, either.

[notin]

Jack Flaherty was taken by the Cards with the next pick after the Red Sox took Kopech. Swing and a miss by Ben. He just doesn't know pitching.

 

25 teams passed on Mike Trout, including the Angels once. Does this mean none of them know how to scout players?

 

Saying he doesn't know pitching because he passed on a high school pitcher who worked out better is pretty weak evidence. Especially since Kopech might work out better in the long run. There was a time when Kason Gabbard looked like he was going to work out better than Jon Lester, too. But those are the kind of evaluations one makes when they're made too early...

[notin]

Cherngton also took Logan Allen with the 231st overall pick (8th round) of the 2015 draft. Five picks later, the Padres selected Chris Paddack. Apparently he has no idea how to draft pitchers. (sarcasm)

[jacksonianmarch]

Cherington is said to have asked the teams he was interested in whether they wanted a full gut rebuild. He wants to rebuild a system. He’s in Pitt now, meaning they’re about to blow that thing sky high

[notin]

Cherington is said to have asked the teams he was interested in whether they wanted a full gut rebuild. He wants to rebuild a system. He’s in Pitt now, meaning they’re about to blow that thing sky high

 

Starling Marte should probably contact his realtor...

[a700hitter]

Cherngton also took Logan Allen with the 231st overall pick (8th round) of the 2015 draft. Five picks later, the Padres selected Chris Paddack. Apparently he has no idea how to draft pitchers. (sarcasm)

His record at building a pitching program is pathetic. No record. No sarcasm.

[notin]

His record at building a pitching program is pathetic. No record. No sarcasm.

 

He was GM for 3 years and drafted 3 MLB starting pitchers (if you count Beeks as a starter). How often do you think other GMs draft MLB starting pitchers?

 

He was not great at it, but he was not pathetic. The only reason it did not work out for Boston is Dombrowski traded away all three SPs before they reached the majors. Are you actually holding that against him?

 

You want to argue someone got a betetr pitcher later than Kopech? Itr's worth pointint out, another GM thought enough of Kopech to deal Chris Sale for him. Look at it this way. No Kopech? No Sale. No Allen? No Kimbrel. No Beeks? No Eovaldi. Also, likely no 2018 title.

 

He drafted good pitching and has that in his track record. His big problem was he refused to trade any of it away. He was a prospect hoarder.

 

Other than saying "well he didn't draft this guy" that numerous other MLB GMs also passed on, do you have anything to support your claim?

[Bellhorn04]

Ben was GM for 4 drafts wasn't he?

[Slasher9]

Ben was the 2nd best GM in Boston Red Sox history. perhaps you can debate Dan D in front of him but that still leaves him top 3.

I am hopeful C-BlOOM will supplant both of them and become our #2 GM/PoBA of all time. there is a good chance based on his history....

[notin]

Ben was GM for 4 drafts wasn't he?

 

I guess it was 4.

 

And in those 4 years, he drafted 21 pitchers who reached the majors...

[a700hitter]

I guess it was 4.

 

And in those 4 years, he drafted 21 pitchers who reached the majors...

His record on pitching was pathetic, drafting it or acquiring it.

[Elktonnick]

I guess it was 4.

 

And in those 4 years, he drafted 21 pitchers who reached the majors...

Re Pittsburgh the owner is rumored to want a wholesale reorg. I think Cherington' s first move after hiring the field Mgr will be reorg baseball ops. From what I have read. Pittsburgh is a mess. Cherington faces a huge challenge both on and off the field.

[jacksonianmarch]

Pittsburgh is a mess. They outright revolted on their manager

[a700hitter]

Pittsburgh is a mess. They outright revolted on their manager

There is nowhere to go but up.

[jacksonianmarch]

There is nowhere to go but up.

 

Not really. They're gonna drop to Orioles level

[notin]

His record on pitching was pathetic, drafting it or acquiring it.

 

What would be a good record?

[S5Dewey]

 

It's worth pointing out, another GM thought enough of Kopech to deal Chris Sale for him.

I don't entirely disagree with the premise of your post but this ^^ is more than a little bit disingenuous. That whole thing wasn't exactly an arm's length transaction. Sale had effectively talked his way out of town. The only question was how much (or little) they were willing to take to get rid of him.

[Elktonnick]

Pittsburgh is a mess. They outright revolted on their manager

A player and coach got into. a fist fight in the clubhouse then a couple weeks later two relievers went at it.

[jacksonianmarch]

A player and coach got into. a fist fight in the clubhouse then a couple weeks later two relievers went at it.

 

And then a reliever raped a 12 yr old.

[Slasher9]

And then a reliever raped a 12 yr old.

 

oh yeah? looks like the yankees about to get another RP on the cheap....

[jacksonianmarch]

Vazquez is gonna get tried and convicted, then he’ll get deported after his sentence. He’s done

[moonslav59]

Vazquez is gonna get tried and convicted, then he’ll get deported after his sentence. He’s done

 

Maybe the Yanks can work out some sort of work-release or furlough program.

[notin]

I don't entirely disagree with the premise of your post but this ^^ is more than a little bit disingenuous. That whole thing wasn't exactly an arm's length transaction. Sale had effectively talked his way out of town. The only question was how much (or little) they were willing to take to get rid of him.

 

While true, there re two other factors.

 

1) Bad attitude or not, the White sox chose to move Sale. He wasn't the first malcontent in team history, and won't be the last.

 

2) The White Sox still chose the Red Sox package for Sale. They weren't the only team in on him...