Game 7 - nats @ astros - 30-oct-2019

[bkzwhitestrican]

Great post by OT in another thread that i thought should go here:

 

Don't know where to put this but in watching the WS last night, the importance of getting ball and strike calls correct was brought home to me again.

 

MLB had put the umpire behind the plate that had graded best on getting ball and strike calls correct and yet humans blink and can otherwise get things wrong at times. One such time occured in the 7th inning. Greinke had given up a homer to Rendon and had the dangerous Soto at bat. The count was 1 and 1. Greinke threw a sinking pitch to Soto that was well within the strike zone and should be made the count 1 and 2, a pitchers count. Greinke grimaced at the call of ball and then tried to nibble and lost Soto. He was removed from the game and the rest is history.

 

It wasn't the only bum call as Correra was called out on strikes on a pitch that was several inches inside.

 

I know there will be boo-hiss comments from those who would not favor robo-umps but you could make a case that the WS outcome was altered by a bad call when the technology was there to avoid the issue. I don't know if it will be brought up in the news but maybe it should be.

 

I get what he's saying but there were several bad calls on both sides. It just happened that this one was more memorable because the pitches/plays after it led to runs. Had Soto struck out or Kendrick hit that ball foul would anybody even think about that one blown strike call? It's not like that call directly led to a run.

 

Now having said all that, I am very much in favor of robot umps. Either that or take away the strike box for TV viewers.

[Bellhorn04]

One could also debate bringing in Harris vs Osuna or having Cole warmed up near the start of the 7th.

 

Hinch's reasoning for his moves seems pretty sound to me. Sometimes you do things right and the player doesn't do the job.

 

Dave Roberts brought in his Hall of Fame ace in Game 5 against the Nats and look where it got him.

[redsoxrules]

Hinch's reasoning for his moves seems pretty sound to me. Sometimes you do things right and the player doesn't do the job.

 

Dave Roberts brought in his Hall of Fame ace in Game 5 against the Nats and look where it got him.

 

Yes but the track record for Kershaw is that he stinks in the playoffs. If you were the coach would you put him in the game when the game is on the line come playoff time? Based on his previous chokes I doubt you would. Cole has been a beast these playoffs

[Bellhorn04]

Yes but the track record for Kershaw is that he stinks in the playoffs. If you were the coach would you put him in the game when the game is on the line come playoff time? Based on his previous chokes I doubt you would. Cole has been a beast these playoffs

 

Cole gave up 5 runs in Game 1 of the Series to these same Nats, including 2 dingers. Like every pitcher, he doesn't always have it.

 

And how would he do 2 days after throwing 110 pitches? I don't think anyone knows.

[TylerD]

Cole should have gotten into this game, before it got out of hand.

 

What were they saving him for?

 

End of the day you hardly win games with just 2 runs. Astros manager made some bad decisions, but the offense had what.... 15 men on base or more and came up with 2 runs. Astros had their chances to win this by a long way and couldn't. Nats deserved this one.

[a700hitter]

Hinch's reasoning for his moves seems pretty sound to me. Sometimes you do things right and the player doesn't do the job.

 

Dave Roberts brought in his Hall of Fame ace in Game 5 against the Nats and look where it got him.

When you have an pitcher with Greinke's pedigree cruising 2 hits and 2 walks in 6 1/3 innings at 80 pitches, you let him finish that inning. Rendon can crush anyone on their best day. Greinke in that spot was better than anyone Hinch could bring in. The reflexive decision to take him out based on metrics was just dumb.

[Bellhorn04]

When you have an pitcher with Greinke's pedigree cruising 2 hits and 2 walks in 6 1/3 innings at 80 pitches, you let him finish that inning. Rendon can crush anyone on their best day. Greinke in that spot was better than anyone Hinch could bring in. The reflexive decision to take him out based on metrics was just dumb.

 

It was a home run followed by a walk, though. And no room to play with. And Greinke had not been pitching that well this postseason, so I can see why Hinch would be concerned the wheels were about to come off.

[a700hitter]

It was a home run followed by a walk, though. And no room to play with. And Greinke had not been pitching that well this postseason, so I can see why Hinch would be concerned the wheels were about to come off.

It was a smart move not to give in to Soto. The ump missed a strike pitch to Soto. Greinke was at 80 pitches and his stuff and command was not diminishing. When a guy with his track record is in a groove, you ride that horse. He was better than any bullpen option at that point.

[TylerD]

It was a bad move in my opinion. Go to the Astros board, not a single poster agreed with the decision. And look it was awful.... Regardless don't think it matters.... Astros put up 2 runs... Just wasn't enough to win last night regardless of the pitching.

[Bellhorn04]

It was a bad move in my opinion. Go to the Astros board, not a single poster agreed with the decision.

 

When it happened or after the fact, though?

[a700hitter]

When it happened or after the fact, though?

I was against it in real time. I also believe that Martinez made a mistake removing Corbin who was dealing. Corbin was better than any of his bullpen options. He had a big lead at that point, so it didn't really matter.

[TylerD]

When it happened or after the fact, though?

 

When it happened, lots were saying they didn't agree. Granted you would think Osuna was a safe choice... he is a deadly closer, but regardless. Don't think it mattered who was out there. Was the nats night. For the record I was against the decision as well when they pulled him, thought it was stupid. And even more stupid we didn't see Cole at all. Not one of Hinch's best games that's for sure.

[Bellhorn04]

When it happened, lots were saying they didn't agree. Granted you would think Osuna was a safe choice... he is a deadly closer, but regardless. Don't think it mattered who was out there. Was the nats night. For the record I was against the decision as well when they pulled him, thought it was stupid. And even more stupid we didn't see Cole at all. Not one of Hinch's best games that's for sure.

 

I don't even care that much, frankly LOL Glad it's not a Red Sox move we're second-guessing.

[Maxbialystock]

I guess it's OK second-guessing Greinke's removal, but on the other hand subsequent events showed the Astros bullpen stunk last night when they had a reputation for being very good. The much-maligned Nationals bullpen, on the other hand, was terrific for four innings.

 

I also disagree on the whining about the balls and strikes when the most eventful call that some say was wrong was the runner interference call.

 

Despite the usual whining about umpire's imperfections, the simple fact is that the better team, the more deserving team, won. On paper the Astros had the better overall team, but the Nationals had the good pitching (and enough hitting) when they needed it for those 4 wins. This is why the WS MVP is Strasburg. Kind of reminds me of Johnny Podres in the 1955 WS when the Dodgers won their first--and against the darn Yankees. I think Podres won 3 games, 1 in relief.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Maxbialystock

[TylerD]

I don't even care that much, frankly LOL Glad it's not a Red Sox move we're second-guessing.

 

Ya agreed. Sometimes at the end of the day you just have to believe it was the other teams time. The Nats player a good game and deserved it. Astros won 2 years ago and went back this year. Nothing to be ashamed about.

[Maxbialystock]

The Nats did two unusual things to win: they won four road games and lost all three home games in the WS; they won the WS despite having to win the wild card game first. I might add that they beat two pretty good teams--the Dodgers in the NLDS and the Astros in the WS--and they did so by winning the final two games of both series. They were down 2-1 to the Dodgers in a 5 game series, and 3-2 to the Astros in a 7 game series.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think the whining about the umpires and/or the decisions by the Nationals manager are a poor attempt to mask the central reality of the World Series (and the playoffs for that matter).

[Bellhorn04]

The more I think about it, the more I think the whining about the umpires and/or the decisions by the Nationals manager are a poor attempt to mask the central reality of the World Series (and the playoffs for that matter).

 

It's just standard baseball fan behavior, no?

[TylerD]

I hate this time of year, no baseball. I'm gonna rewatch the 04 series against the Yankees and pretend it's brand new

[a700hitter]

The Nats did two unusual things to win: they won four road games and lost all three home games in the WS; they won the WS despite having to win the wild card game first. I might add that they beat two pretty good teams--the Dodgers in the NLDS and the Astros in the WS--and they did so by winning the final two games of both series. They were down 2-1 to the Dodgers in a 5 game series, and 3-2 to the Astros in a 7 game series.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think the whining about the umpires and/or the decisions by the Nationals manager are a poor attempt to mask the central reality of the World Series (and the playoffs for that matter).

^ This is thinking? It seems like whining about the opinions of others. Just sayin.

[moonslav59]

7 road wins is pretty amazing.

 

I guess home field advantage is just a crap shoot.

[a700hitter]

7 road wins is pretty amazing.

 

I guess home field advantage is just a crap shoot.

I don't think we will ever see that happen again.

[moonslav59]

I don't think we will ever see that happen again.

 

I think no series ever had 5 road wins in the first 5 games.

 

No major sport had 6, until the 7 this year.

[a700hitter]

I think no series ever had 5 road wins in the first 5 games.

 

No major sport had 6, until the 7 this year.

1996 NYY vs Atl

[moonslav59]

1996 NYY vs Atl

 

I thought I heard them say, last night, none had 6, but you are right.

[Bellhorn04]

I thought I heard them say, last night, none had 6, but you are right.

 

1996 was 5 in a row.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

When you have an pitcher with Greinke's pedigree cruising 2 hits and 2 walks in 6 1/3 innings at 80 pitches, you let him finish that inning. Rendon can crush anyone on their best day. Greinke in that spot was better than anyone Hinch could bring in. The reflexive decision to take him out based on metrics was just dumb.

 

Totally correct: taking Grienke out was stupid and the umpire did miss a strike call on that pitch to Soto. Grienke was cruising--he deserved the opportunity to finish the inning and was a better choice than Harris, who was tired according to Hinch. To be sure, you don't take Grienke out for a tired reliever. If you take Grienke out for Cole, I can better understand the move, but you don't take him out for a tired reliever.

 

Keep Grienke in, and there is a good chance he finishes the 7th inning with the lead and then Cole pitches the 8th and 9th. The Astros should be celebrating another W.S. title.

 

Hinch is lucky he has the 2017 W.S. title under his belt, otherwise people would be calling for his job.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Fan_since_Boggs

[OH FOY]

https://985thesportshub.com/2019/10/31/mccarthy-the-nerds-cost-the-astros-the-world-series-and-it-was-glorious-to-watch/

 

Good article. For me at least.

3 Games on the Road to the Super Bowl (and win it), in the NFL as a Wild Card , is right there, with what the Nationals did. Just individual's perspective.

Edited November 3, 2019 by OH FOY!

[Maxbialystock]

^ This is thinking? It seems like whining about the opinions of others. Just sayin.

 

Yes, admittedly. The thinking part is that it was a pretty terrific WS which was good for MLB.

 

I live on the outskirts of DC (Fairfax County) and am bombarded with inane comments about how these poor fans have suffered for almost a millenium--in their case, 14 years--before finally, finally winning the big one. The real suffering fans were those of the Washington Senators who were so bad and so unsupported they lost two franchises, one of which is still in Minnesota and the other still in Texas. But the Senators did have one great asset--sportswriter Shirley Povich.