Sale to IL with elbow injury

[Slasher9]

Watch “Beyond the Curve” for a great documentary about Flat Earthers. Although admittedly the documentary does ignore the present state of the Sox farm...

 

Behind the curve.

Watching it now.

Fascinating

[harmony]

I think Price would get way more than $18M/3, if he was a FA this winter.

Innings-limited David Price has pitched only 105.1 innings this year, not enough qualify for the FanGraphs fWAR rankings:

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=&age=&filter=&players=&startdate=&enddate=

 

Among all pitchers this year Price ranks 49th with 2.3 fWAR, valued at $18.2 million:

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=&age=&filter=&players=&startdate=&enddate=&page=2_30

 

One website lists Price with a negative value of $44.8 million, which subtracted from the $96 million he's owed, leaves about $51 million over three years, or $17 million a season.

 

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trade-simulator/

 

With a 4.25 ERA over an abbreviated 105.1 innings and an IL-stint, a 34-year-old Price might be hard-pressed to land a three-year contract at $18 million per.

 

A decent comp might be Cubs lefthander Cole Hamels, a pending free agent who is 20 months older than Price. Hamels, with his own IL stint this year, has posted 2.4 fWAR, valued at $19.1 million, in 109.2 innings.

Edited August 19, 2019 by harmony

[jacksonianmarch]

Keuchel is younger and better yet couldn’t land what you’re saying for Price. The markets got stingier for older, lesser players.

[cp176]

It is very parallel to Flat Earth theory. Despite the mountains of evidence, some people just believe the Sox farm system is as good as any other team’s because, well, they want to.

 

The Sox farmsystem does suck. That doesn’t mean it has no Major Leaguers in it anywhere. But it does mean there are likely very few who will ever make an impact.

 

But we can all sit back and hope we have the next Aristides Aquino...

 

I know right notin. A moron who truly believes that the earth is flat and maybe that we did not land on the moon is of course an accurate comparison to anyone who might think that our farm system isn't as bad as it has ever been - another big lol on that one.

What I see is just another huge exaggeration to try to prove a very debatable issue through condescension once again. it is what we see in our world today - gross exaggeration which hopefully quiets those with opposing views. I would call it a genius move by not so genius people.

[notin]

I know right notin. A moron who truly believes that the earth is flat and maybe that we did not land on the moon is of course an accurate comparison to anyone who might think that our farm system isn't as bad as it has ever been - another big lol on that one.

What I see is just another huge exaggeration to try to prove a very debatable issue through condescension once again. it is what we see in our world today - gross exaggeration which hopefully quiets those with opposing views. I would call it a genius move by not so genius people.

 

Slow down. Who said we landed on the moon?

[Bellhorn04]

Slow down. Who said we landed on the moon?

 

You don't know the real truth about things unless you watch Ancient Aliens.

[Bellhorn04]

Keuchel is younger and better yet couldn’t land what you’re saying for Price. The markets got stingier for older, lesser players.

 

J. A. Happ got 2/34 plus a vesting option for another year at 17.

 

Keuchel misread the market or overpriced himself, methinks.

[notin]

You don't know the real truth about things unless you watch Ancient Aliens.

 

Or read anything by David Icke...

[Bellhorn04]

Sale makes the fateful visit to Dr. Andrews today.

[moonslav59]

Keuchel is younger and better yet couldn’t land what you’re saying for Price. The markets got stingier for older, lesser players.

 

Keuchel had a QO attached to his name.

[moonslav59]

I know right notin. A moron who truly believes that the earth is flat and maybe that we did not land on the moon is of course an accurate comparison to anyone who might think that our farm system isn't as bad as it has ever been - another big lol on that one.

What I see is just another huge exaggeration to try to prove a very debatable issue through condescension once again. it is what we see in our world today - gross exaggeration which hopefully quiets those with opposing views. I would call it a genius move by not so genius people.

 

When I chose the words "Flat earthers" I did not mean to associate the context of people with their heads in the sand, although I do think a little denial is at play with some who think our farm will rise from the ashes without getting any top picks or high international spending pools. I thought, "What is the opposite of a cliff dweller?" I thought of saying, "Plateau dweller" or "Hill people," but flat earthers sounded better.

 

It was not meant as an insult to anyone's intelligence.

[Bellhorn04]

When I chose the words "Flat earthers" I did not mean to associate the context of people with their heads in the sand, although I do think a little denial is at play with some who think our farm will rise from the ashes without getting any top picks or high international spending pools. I thought, "What is the opposite of a cliff dweller?" I thought of saying, "Plateau dweller" or "Hill people," but flat earthers sounded better.

 

It was not meant as an insult to anyone's intelligence.

 

You seem to think that if we re-set the tax in 2020 we can be contenders again in 2021. So does that make you a cliff dweller or a non cliff dweller?

[notin]

You seem to think that if we re-set the tax in 2020 we can be contenders again in 2021. So does that make you a cliff dweller or a non cliff dweller?

 

I think it does give them a better chance and willingness to spend. Don’t you?

[cp176]

When I chose the words "Flat earthers" I did not mean to associate the context of people with their heads in the sand, although I do think a little denial is at play with some who think our farm will rise from the ashes without getting any top picks or high international spending pools. I thought, "What is the opposite of a cliff dweller?" I thought of saying, "Plateau dweller" or "Hill people," but flat earthers sounded better.

 

It was not meant as an insult to anyone's intelligence.

 

Oh i'm ok with anything you say Moon. I just am slightly opposed to all of these weird little statements people tend to make these days in an attempt to shove people into some sort of stereotype. How about this - even though I am quite conservative that doesn't mean that I am not liberal in my thinking. As for the intelligence part, not a problem. I'm pretty sure just as all of us likely are that i know where i stand with respect to the brightness scale. i just don't care to spend much time trying to convince people of my obvious superior intellect!

[cp176]

Slow down. Who said we landed on the moon?

 

 

Well i guess if you don't believe that, I would have to say that your head must at least be part way up Uranus.

[notin]

Well i guess if you don't believe that, I would have to say that your head must at least be part way up Uranus.

 

I was kidding.

 

The Fake Moon Landing conspiracy is among the funniest, because as far as I can tell, it benefits no one. If you watch the documentary about Flat Earthers, they frequently reference the NASA conspiracies about how they're keeping the true shape of the Earth quiet. What they never say is why or who benefits...

[cp176]

I was kidding.

 

The Fake Moon Landing conspiracy is among the funniest, because as far as I can tell, it benefits no one. If you watch the documentary about Flat Earthers, they frequently reference the NASA conspiracies about how they're keeping the true shape of the Earth quiet. What they never say is why or who benefits...

 

notin - had a hunch all along notin that you were kidding.

[cp176]

notin - had a hunch all along notin that you were kidding.

 

 

i did kind of think that you would get a kick out my Uranus statement.

[notin]

i did kind of think that you would get a kick out my Uranus statement.

 

It just tells me you’re a dad;)

[Slasher9]

I was kidding.

 

The Fake Moon Landing conspiracy is among the funniest, because as far as I can tell, it benefits no one. ..

 

you obviously forgot about the Cold War between USSR and USA. the space race and the race to the Moon was yuuuuuuuuge.

[moonslav59]

You seem to think that if we re-set the tax in 2020 we can be contenders again in 2021. So does that make you a cliff dweller or a non cliff dweller?

 

I've always said that if we plan well, we can keep the down time (or cliff) to 1 or 2 years.

 

2019 and 2020= 2 years, but really only 2020 counts, since we didn't rebuild or reset this year.

 

I'm being hopeful, but I realize 2022 or 2023 might be more realistic.

 

I do think, if we reset, build the farm for 2023 and beyond, and then spend large without making any mistake signings, we can compete in 2021. I'm not sure about being a top 4-5 contender, but I try to be optimistic.

[Bellhorn04]

I've always said that if we plan well, we can keep the down time (or cliff) to 1 or 2 years.

 

2019 and 2020= 2 years, but really only 2020 counts, since we didn't rebuild or reset this year.

 

I'm being hopeful, but I realize 2022 or 2023 might be more realistic.

 

I do think, if we reset, build the farm for 2023 and beyond, and then spend large without making any mistake signings, we can compete in 2021. I'm not sure about being a top 4-5 contender, but I try to be optimistic.

 

So you're a non cliff dweller then. Nothing wrong with that.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

J. A. Happ got 2/34 plus a vesting option for another year at 17.

 

Keuchel misread the market or overpriced himself, methinks.

 

This is a good point. Happ sucks and he got 17m. Price should get at least 17m per year. And unlike Happ, Price is a World Series hero. That matters. It wasn't C.Sale who carried the starting rotation in the World Series, it was David Price.

 

Thus, if the Red Sox kick in 42m, they should be able to move Price, as the acquiring team would then owe Price 18m per year. Obviously, you trade Price to a team with Playoff/World Series aspirations. I was thinking about the Brewers or Phillies. Price is a better fit for the NL at this stage of his career. Maybe the Cardinals. If I'm not mistaken, the Cardinals tried to sign Price when he entered free agency.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Fan_since_Boggs

[moonslav59]

This is a good point. Happ sucks and he got 17m. Price should get at least 17m per year. And unlike Happ, Price is a World Series hero. That matters. It wasn't C.Sale who carried the starting rotation in the World Series, it was David Price.

 

Thus, if the Red Sox kick in 42m, they should be able to move Price, as the acquiring team would then owe Price 18m per year. Obviously, you trade Price to a team with Playoff/World Series aspirations. I was thinking about the Brewers or Phillies. Price is a better fit for the NL at this stage of his career. Maybe the Cardinals. If I'm not mistaken, the Cardinals tried to sign Price when he entered free agency.

 

Happ did not suck before 2019. He had several good years in a row and was pretty healthy.

[harmony]

This is a good point. Happ sucks and he got 17m. Price should get at least 17m per year. And unlike Happ, Price is a World Series hero. That matters. It wasn't C.Sale who carried the starting rotation in the World Series, it was David Price.

 

Thus, if the Red Sox kick in 42m, they should be able to move Price, as the acquiring team would then owe Price 18m per year. Obviously, you trade Price to a team with Playoff/World Series aspirations. I was thinking about the Brewers or Phillies. Price is a better fit for the NL at this stage of his career. Maybe the Cardinals. If I'm not mistaken, the Cardinals tried to sign Price when he entered free agency.

Could be tough to find a team that views J.A. Happ as a wise investment at $17 million per year coming off a 2018 season with an ERA of 3.65 in 177.2 innings.

 

In the three previous seasons, Happ had an ERA of 3.44 in 518 innings while Price has an ERA of 3.77 in 356 innings since the start of the 2017 season.

Edited August 19, 2019 by harmony

[Fan_since_Boggs]

How about 15m and JD Martinez (I'm assuming he isn't opting out) to the Twins for a prospect? The Twins get Martinez at an affordable price and he replaces the much older N.Cruz. The Red Sox save money by moving Martinez's contract and get a quality prospect in return.

[moonslav59]

So you're a non cliff dweller then. Nothing wrong with that.

 

My guess is, not counting this year, we will not be highly competitive for 2-3 years. It could (and maybe should) get real bad for 1-2 years.

 

If we guess right on about all our signings and Sale, price & JD are strong, which is unlikely all happen, we can compete in 2021.

 

Call me what you will, but I see a cliff. I expect a cliff. I hope we use the cliff to rebuild the farm.

 

[Fan_since_Boggs]

After trading Price and Martinez.

 

1b: Dalbec

2b: Hernandez/Chatman

SS: Bogaerts

3b: Devers

C: Vazquez

LF: Benintendi

CF: Duran

RF:???

DH: Ockimey/Shaw

 

If the REd Sox are going to rebuild, they might as well give Ockimey a chance at DH, but only against RHP. Along with trading Martinez and Price, I guess the Red Sox trade Betts as well (or should they keep him and sign him long term?). I'm trading Chavis in a deal for a starting pitcher. Bradley = gone.

 

While the lineup still looks pretty good, esp. if the Red Sox resign Betts, the starting rotation is obviously weak (assuming C.Sale needs TJ Surgery):

Eavoldi

Rodriguez

???

???

???

 

Maybe Houck takes one of the rotation spots? If you're rebuilding, maybe you make moves like that. I'm not sure, however, if the Red Sox see Houck as a long term bullpen arm or SP.

[moonslav59]

Could be tough to find a team that views J.A. Happ as a wise investment at $17 million per year coming off a 2018 season with an ERA of 3.65 in 177.2 innings.

 

I know Happ is older than Eovaldi, hence the shorter contract, but he had good numbers for 4 years running:

2015-2018

58-29 3.48 (FIP 3.78)

690 IP (avg: 173 IP per season)

120 ERA+

1.214 WHIP

3.21 K/BB

 

[moonslav59]

After trading Price and Martinez.

 

1b: Dalbec

2b: Hernandez/Chatman

SS: Bogaerts

3b: Devers

C: Vazquez

LF: Benintendi

CF: Duran

RF:???

DH: Ockimey/Shaw

 

If the REd Sox are going to rebuild, they might as well give Ockimey a chance at DH, but only against RHP. Along with trading Martinez and Price, I guess the Red Sox trade Betts as well (or should they keep him and sign him long term?). I'm trading Chavis in a deal for a starting pitcher. Bradley = gone.

 

While the lineup still looks pretty good, esp. if the Red Sox resign Betts, the starting rotation is obviously weak (assuming C.Sale needs TJ Surgery):

Eavoldi

Rodriguez

???

???

???

 

Maybe Houck takes one of the rotation spots? If you're rebuilding, maybe you make moves like that. I'm not sure, however, if the Red Sox see Houck as a long term bullpen arm or SP.

 

It's Travis not Shaw.

LF could be Travis with Beni in CF and Duran in RF, assuming no Betts.

Lin can play OF.