Sale to IL with elbow injury

[jacksonianmarch]

Real or fake? I’m intrigued.

[S5Dewey]

Real or fake? I’m intrigued.

 

Yep. 10 days on the IL retroactive to August 11. I don't know what we'd do without some non-troll posting this on TalkSox 2 minutes after it appears on the Red Sox site.

[FredLynn]

Real or fake? I’m intrigued.

 

Or irrelevant.

As long as its not a serious injury that threatens NEXT year, its irrelevant.

Edited August 17, 2019 by FredLynn

[harmony]

Chris Sale to visit Dr. James Andrews, according to Adam Kaufman of WBZ News Radio:

 

 

And from the Boston Globe's Pete Abraham:

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by harmony

[jacksonianmarch]

Clearly I don’t want him hurt. When I saw the news initially I thought it was a convenient way to shut him down. But this sounds more serious than that. Hopefully he’s not headed for TJS

[fxkatt]

1) That the season's not over has much to do with Sale's last two outings. 2) This news to me thus means the season is over. (esp with the mixed news about Price) 3) I expected something like this because I had a real sense that the great effort Sale put out might somehow put him on the IL.

[moonslav59]

This news sucks more than the current standings.

[redsoxrules]

And that's why you wait till he plays this full season before you extend him

[Swiharts Ghost]

This news sucks more than the current standings.

 

Ok let's cut the s*** we all know this is the worst case scenario How long is TJ to recover? a year ? So we won't even see another Sale start if he does the operation Friday until next September ? We need another Ace folks and there's only one way to get one .GoodbyeBenny or worse

[Swiharts Ghost]

I know this insane but has anyone watched Thad Ward pitch ? 96 disgusting breaking ball very verrrry raw but talent is clearly there .Shoupd we adopt the Rays gameplan and use these pitchers a couple innings start using openers ? We do have talent but it'may need to be rushed ? Don't kill me .

[jacksonianmarch]

For most SP’s, the recovery is 15 months before seeing the rotation again and usually 18 months before being fully back to prior. Relievers can come back in 12 months assuming everything goes perfectly, which is doesn’t always

[fxkatt]

Unless this has just come down... no news till Mon-Tues on Sale's injury/condition. But it sure doesn't sound promising.

[Slasher9]

Miami clinic in the offseason. Back in time for ST

[Fan_since_Boggs]

And that's why you wait till he plays this full season before you extend him

 

Definitely. This is looking more and more like a huge Dombrowski blunder.

 

If Sale needs TJ Surgery, you really have to rethink where the organization goes from here. Without Sale, a rebuild makes a lot more sense. . . .

[jacksonianmarch]

Definitely. This is looking more and more like a huge Dombrowski blunder.

 

If Sale needs TJ Surgery, you really have to rethink where the organization goes from here. Without Sale, a rebuild makes a lot more sense. . . .

 

If Sale misses 2020, then a rebuild is almost assured. You’ll have two holes in the rotation to fill and instead of it being just the 4 slot, you’d need to fill the 1 and 4 slot. Sale hasn’t pitched like an ace this year (peripherals yes, performance against the good squads no) but he was going to lead your rotation into 2020. 2020 was the last year of the window anyway. This could jump start it.

 

Right now the Sox sit at either 19 or 20 in draft order (ties with CHC) and if they were in the NL, would be tied for the second wild card right now. If the Sox trail off and fade, they might slip below MIL, NYM, and PHI in record. That’s get them 16 in draft order. While the talent from 11-20 isn’t what it is from 1-10, the escalating draft pool will help the next GM pick some good players

[jung]

The way this news was framed and offered by DD and then Cora is not encouraging at all. Sale is not even being allowed to talk to the media and nobody but nobody would think getting a second opinion from Dr Andrews is good news. You go to him when the initial opinion is not encouraging.

 

With Porcello going, Nate as fragile as a carton of eggs, Price sort of iffy physically and Sale more than iffy, 2020 will be gone anyway if in fact Sale is headed for TJ. It might be gone at this point even if Sale does not have TJ.

 

If it were me, I would keep Beni and get everything I could get for Mookie. Mookie IMO is not staying here anyway and Mookie won't lift us to a reasonable 2020 run without the pitching to get it done.

[Bellhorn04]

And that's why you wait till he plays this full season before you extend him

 

Wrong. If he plays the whole season, he becomes a free agent.

 

It may have been a blunder to extend him because of his medical issues.

 

But when people say you should wait until the end of the season to extend him, they don't know what they're talking about.

[OH FOY]

Nobody fore sees injuries, come on guys, lets be real. Lets get next year CY Young award Winner now if that's the case.

[jung]

Does anybody remember if Sale had closed the door on negotiating during the 2019 season? I don't remember if that was taken off the table. There are instances when either the player or the organization does that. But I just do not remember if that was the case here.

 

It should have been obvious just from the last couple seasons that Sale was wearing down. Wearing down is not injury but it is wearing down and that has consequences. I had posted several times mainly in game threads that Sale in the last few starts was overthrowing to hit velo that he hit naturally before this season....suddenly BANG....there goes the elbow. His motion basically sucks for throwing hard over an extended career. It just does. Same for his physical characteristics.

[Bellhorn04]

Does anybody remember if Sale had closed the door on negotiating during the 2019 season? I don't remember if that was taken off the table. There are instances when either the player or the organization does that. But I just do not remember if that was the case here.

 

Players hardly ever sign significant extensions during the season. Can you remember any?

 

There were some that were announced right after the season started, but that was for luxury tax manipulation.

[moonslav59]

Wrong. If he plays the whole season, he becomes a free agent.

 

It may have been a blunder to extend him because of his medical issues.

 

But when people say you should wait until the end of the season to extend him, they don't know what they're talking about.

 

Exactly. And, if Sale had won theCy young this year, we couldn't have afforded him. Let's not forget most felt he. Signed for less money and years had he been a FA last winter.

 

In hindsight, it looks like a big mistake and kudos to those coming out of the word work saying "I told you so". You guesses right on this one. Every big signing is a big risk. We got this one wrong.

 

We need to get over it, move on, reset and shoot for a return to glory as quickly as possible- hopefully by including some serious farm rebuilding in the plans.

 

Thank you DD but good bye.

[S5Dewey]

C'mon guys. This can't come as a complete surprise to anyone. Anyone who'd seen him pitch knew that his motion practically screamed "ELBOW INJURY!" Many of us were holding our collective breaths during the 2018 season, especially when he went down with (alleged) shoulder issues.

 

Here's what went wrong in The Master Plan IMO:

The Master Plan was for Sale to remain healthy through the "window period" of 2018-2020 and we'd worry about him in 2021 when the time came to reset some. Then this season started circling the drain when three of our starting pitchers didn't get out of the gate until the rest of the horses where at the quarter-pole, and things went downhill from there. However, even then there was still the 2020 season ahead with the only serious pitching issue being Porcillo. After all, Sale was healthy (we thought) and Price was pitching better. The pen is what it is and most of those guys are replaceable with players of like salaries if we chose to.

 

Now that circling whirlpool has about emptied the sink with Sale's injury (and if there is anyone here who isn't thinking "TJ Surgery" please raise their hand).

 

My guess is that there is some serious brainstorming in the FO right now as JH, DD, LaRussa & Co. decide what to do now and when to do it.

[jung]

Players hardly ever sign significant extensions during the season. Can you remember any?

 

There were some that were announced right after the season started, but that was for luxury tax manipulation.

 

I would say that 5 years is what made it "significant" and given where Sale has been headed, the Sox would likely have been wiser to have given him more money for a far shorter term. 5 years is really only an extension because he was already under contract. But in truth we really signed him for term as long as it would have been for a new contract.

 

Frankly, I think the way the Sox handled the Sale contract was another instance of valuing the 2018 contributions of a player to a WS too heavily and paying for it through the nose. Nate was that, Fat Ass Pearce was surely that and Henry literally came out and said that was a factor in the Sale extension. Whether Sale has TJ or not, none of what we have seen with Chris suggested a 5 year added commitment to him. IMO these rotation signings (most specifically Nate and Sale) have sealed our fate on Mookie.

 

As it stands right now it appears hard to imagine we will be able to pitch with any truly competitive team in 2020 which kind of makes a deal with Mookie for really big money extraneous. Its not just Mookie projecting himself as a top dollar contract in this case either. We are almost pushing Mookie out the door.

[Bellhorn04]

Frankly, I think the way the Sox handled the Sale contract was another instance of valuing the 2018 contributions of a player to a WS too heavily and paying for it through the nose. Nate was that, Fat Ass Pearce was surely that and Henry literally came out and said that was a factor in the Sale extension. Whether Sale has TJ or not, none of what we have seen with Chris suggested a 5 year added commitment to him. IMO these rotation signings (most specifically Nate and Sale) have sealed our fate on Mookie.

 

Sale also contributed heavily in 2017 and has been a perennial Cy Young contender. I see no parallel between him and Steve Pearce.

 

What this all comes down to is the Sox evaluations of the health of Sale's arm. Those are certainly subject to scrutiny!

[moonslav59]

Had we not extended Sale, and he pitched well this year, but we lost him to free agency, we'd be hearing Lester comps left and right.

[S5Dewey]

Exactly. And, if Sale had won theCy young this year, we couldn't have afforded him. Let's not forget most felt he. Signed for less money and years had he been a FA last winter.

 

In hindsight, it looks like a big mistake and kudos to those coming out of the word work saying "I told you so". You guesses right on this one. Every big signing is a big risk. We got this one wrong.

 

We need to get over it, move on, reset and shoot for a return to glory as quickly as possible- hopefully by including some serious farm rebuilding in the plans.

 

Thank you DD but good bye.

 

Let's take a breath here.

 

This isn't the end of the world, even if Sale's injury is the "worst case scenario". To put the best spin on it, it may be a blessing in disguise. If we lose Sale for 2020 he's still going to come back for 2021-2025. I now see a rebuild for 2020 & 2021, keeping Beni, Devers, Bogaerts & Vaz with everyone else being replaceable. It does solve our salary problems to some degree and it allows The Cliff Dwellers to say 'I told you so'.

 

2020 won't be much fun, especially with the non-trolls around reminding us how bad the team is but we can very well be ramping up again in 2021 and able to make a semi-serious run again in 2022 and being very good again in 2023-2025.

[Bellhorn04]

Had we not extended Sale, and he pitched well this year, but we lost him to free agency, we'd be hearing Lester comps left and right.

 

No question. We'd be hearing from all quarters about how we f'd up again.

[moonslav59]

Let's take a breath here.

 

This isn't the end of the world, even if Sale's injury is the "worst case scenario". To put the best spin on it, it may be a blessing in disguise. If we lose Sale for 2020 he's still going to come back for 2021-2025. I now see a rebuild for 2020 & 2021, keeping Beni, Devers, Bogaerts & Vaz with everyone else being replaceable. It does solve our salary problems to some degree and it allows The Cliff Dwellers to say 'I told you so'.

 

2020 won't be much fun, especially with the non-trolls around reminding us how bad the team is but we can very well be ramping up again in 2021 and able to make a semi-serious run again in 2022 and being very good again in 2023-2025.

 

I agree100%.

 

The non cliff dwellers wil have an out. They will be able to claim there would never have been a cliff had Sale never got hurt.

[Bellhorn04]

The non cliff dwellers wil have an out. They will be able to claim there would never have been a cliff had Sale never got hurt.

 

"The non cliff dwellers". If any normal person is reading this they must be thinking, 'What are these lunatics talking about?' LOL

[jacksonianmarch]

Not really. The fall off the cliff started with Sale pitching all but the last six weeks