5/2 @ Chicago

[dgalehouse]

you dont believe in the mental aspect of baseball? especially pitching? or hitting?

are you more comfortable pitching with 2 outs and no one on?

are you a little bit let down after your teammate makes an error and instead its man on first, 1 out?

is bogie playing in a different spot for double play defense?

is vaz reluctant to call offspeed in the 9th with man on first? (burner)?

does braz change his 'routine' in between pitches with 1 on vs 0 on?

is a hitter more confident with a man on base?

is he hunting for a certain pitch based on analytics of what the pitcher will do with a man on base vs no one on?

call BS all you want. if you think the game ends up exactly the same way had Devers not committed the error there isnt really much more to debate...

 

A whole lot of nothing there . You are right . I can't debate with B.S. What happened , happened . Speculation and wishful thinking does not change reality .

[Slasher9]

A whole lot of nothing there . You are right . I can't debate with B.S. What happened , happened . Speculation and wishful thinking does not change reality .

 

so just to confirm...no game has ever changed because of an error? got it.

[TylerD]

At the end of the day it’s a pointless argument. Slasher definitely has a point. Games are determined constantly by errors and when momentum goes. It really goes. Just look at the Cubs/Bucker game. Nearly every fan in Chicago will tell you to this day that changed the dynamic of the game. It’s not crazy talk. Lots of people believe a game is lost on error or a stupid play.

 

However I still think Brasier blew it. Giving up that home run was absolutely brutal regardless of the error. It’s past. Time to move on. Give Barnes the closing role.

[Maxbialystock]

At the end of the day it’s a pointless argument. Slasher definitely has a point. Games are determined constantly by errors and when momentum goes. It really goes. Just look at the Cubs/Bucker game. Nearly every fan in Chicago will tell you to this day that changed the dynamic of the game. It’s not crazy talk. Lots of people believe a game is lost on error or a stupid play.

 

However I still think Brasier blew it. Giving up that home run was absolutely brutal regardless of the error. It’s past. Time to move on. Give Barnes the closing role.

 

I agree the error was a big deal, but absolutely do not agree it's time to replace Brasier. He has thrown 210 pitches or so, and made that one big mistake. Devers has had 103 total chances and has 9 errors.

 

Besides, Cora has already used Brasier in non-save situations, and Barnes has 2 saves. So the point about who is the closer is moot. FWIW, I like Brasier a whole lot more than the guy we had last year. I think he had a beard, and he did his level best to sabotage the Sox in the postseason, but now wants to be paid a king's ransom.

[dgalehouse]

so just to confirm...no game has ever changed because of an error? got it.

 

Of course , I never said that no game ever changed because of an error . Glad you got it though . You started by blaming pitching from the stretch and defensive alignment . Moonslav seconded the motion . That was nonsense . Then you switched to a whole lot of psychological gobbledygook . The fact still is that the error did not lose the game . The home run did. I'm done .

[TylerD]

I agree the error was a big deal, but absolutely do not agree it's time to replace Brasier. He has thrown 210 pitches or so, and made that one big mistake. Devers has had 103 total chances and has 9 errors.

 

Besides, Cora has already used Brasier in non-save situations, and Barnes has 2 saves. So the point about who is the closer is moot. FWIW, I like Brasier a whole lot more than the guy we had last year. I think he had a beard, and he did his level best to sabotage the Sox in the postseason, but now wants to be paid a king's ransom.

 

You and me both Max. Last time I said I didn’t want Kimbrel back and personally thought he was over rated for what he is asking. I was attacked by a few members. It’s a subject I just leave well enough alone now. Still no part of me wants Kimbrel back.

[jung]

errors completely change the complexion of the game. pitch sequence will be completely different. stretch vs windup. defensive positioning. i would bet 99 out of 100 times we win last nights game if devers gets that 2nd out.

 

Completely agree. Honestly I don't how anybody could think otherwise.

[jung]

At the end of the day it’s a pointless argument. Slasher definitely has a point. Games are determined constantly by errors and when momentum goes. It really goes. Just look at the Cubs/Bucker game. Nearly every fan in Chicago will tell you to this day that changed the dynamic of the game. It’s not crazy talk. Lots of people believe a game is lost on error or a stupid play.

 

However I still think Brasier blew it. Giving up that home run was absolutely brutal regardless of the error. It’s past. Time to move on. Give Barnes the closing role.

 

It appears that Cora is still judging his 8th and 9th inning pitchers by who is actually coming to the plate. i have no issue with Brasier/Barnes remaining the closers. I also have no issue with Cora deciding to give Barnes the tougher bats to work through in those two innings. The Sox are not likely to blow somebody into town to take that role at this point and frankly I would be somewhat disappointed if they did .....until possibly the trade deadline. If anything, they need somebody to hand innings to earlier in the game with ducks on the pond. Handing Work or Hembree stints with ducks on the pond is like playing Russian Roulette. Glad to see Cora only does it in rare instances. But I would not do it at all if I were him.

 

The Sox infield is swiss cheese at the moment. Brasier will have to learn to absorb the error or the missed or botched play in what is clearly a high leverage situation because he is going to face what he got handed last night again whether we like it or not. Frankly I am only marginally convinced that Barnes would have handled it any better.

Edited May 3, 2019 by jung

[Bellhorn04]

Completely agree. Honestly I don't how anybody could think otherwise.

 

Because nothing's that simple, that's why. You can find countless examples of one-out errors that didn't lead to runs. And you can find countless examples of two-out, nobody on rallies.

 

The Win Probability thing is the most reliable measurement here because it factors in all those countless other games.

[jung]

Because nothing's that simple, that's why. You can find countless examples of one-out errors that didn't lead to runs. And you can find countless examples of two-out, nobody on rallies.

 

The Win Probability thing is the most reliable measurement here because it factors in all those countless other games.

 

Did you watch how Brasier actually threw the baseball from that moment onward? He was reminiscent of Erod when he "breaks down" and edges closer and closer to a period when everything he is throwing is either a pitch the hitter just ignores completely or that has HIT ME written all over it.

Edited May 3, 2019 by jung

[Bellhorn04]

Did you watch how Brasier actually threw the baseball from that moment onward? He was reminiscent of Erod when he "breaks down" and edges closer and closer to a period when everything he is throwing is either a pitch the hitter just ignores completely or that has HIT ME written all over it.

 

Brasier would have to be incredibly weak mentally to melt down that completely and that fast because of a single error behind him.

[TylerD]

It appears that Cora is still judging his 8th and 9th inning pitchers by who is actually coming to the plate. i have no issue with Brasier/Barnes remaining the closers. I also have no issue with Cora deciding to give Barnes the tougher bats to work through in those two innings. The Sox are not likely to blow somebody into town to take that role at this point and frankly I would be somewhat disappointed if they did .....until possibly the trade deadline. If anything, they need somebody to hand innings to earlier in the game with ducks on the pond. Handing Work or Hembree stints with ducks on the pond is like playing Russian Roulette. Glad to see Cora only does it in rare instances. But I would not do it at all if I were him.

 

The Sox infield is swiss cheese at the moment. Brasier will have to learn to absorb the error or the missed or botched play in what is clearly a high leverage situation because he is going to face what he got handed last night again whether we like it or not. Frankly I am only marginally convinced that Barnes would have handled it any better.

 

I'm not going to speculate..... We don't know how Barnes would have done... It's impossible. And we won't know how he does until he is given the closing role for a while. Make the change Cora!

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

The error caused Brasier to split his concentration between the runner on 1st and the batter. That's never a good thing.

[jung]

Brasier would have to be incredibly weak mentally to melt down that completely and that fast because of a single error behind him.

 

No weaker than other pitchers in this league. Do we actually want to make the case that the way Brasier reacted last night is some sort of anomaly? Plenty of MLB pitchers, especially those unused to being sort of "mugged" by the team behind them have exactly the same reaction in a high leverage situation. Brasier just kept digging a deeper and deeper hole, pitch by pitch from that moment on up to the point when burying a pitch in the dirt would have brought the runner home from 3rd on a wild pitch. At that point, Brasier was a puddle.

[jung]

I'm not going to speculate..... We don't know how Barnes would have done... It's impossible. And we won't know how he does until he is given the closing role for a while. Make the change Cora!

 

He has the job. So does Brasier. Myself I much prefer what Cora is doing in giving Barnes the tougher outs between the 8th and 9th innings and giving Brasier the easier outs of the two pitchers. I am pretty well convinced that in most instances where the tougher bats are scheduled for the 9th, Barnes will close.

[TylerD]

He has the job. So does Brasier. Myself I much prefer what Cora is doing in giving Barnes the tougher outs between the 8th and 9th innings and giving Brasier the easier outs of the two pitchers. I am pretty well convinced that in most instances where the tougher bats are scheduled for the 9th, Barnes will close.

 

True. However scary if Brasier buckles under the pressure in the 9th against not a great lineup.... But I will chalk it up to a one off as he has been very solid for us.... Even Kimbrel had quite a few heart attack closes for us so meh.

[jung]

True. However scary if Brasier buckles under the pressure in the 9th against not a great lineup.... But I will chalk it up to a one off as he has been very solid for us.... Even Kimbrel had quite a few heart attack closes for us so meh.

 

You know what I wish? I wish that Catchers were less reluctant to head out to the mound in situations like the one Brasier found himself in last night. If they have the mound visits to burn, screw the coaches. Head out there. Tell him to "take a deep breath, calm down, your stuff is great, I know because I am catching it. JUST THROW THE f***ING THING!"

[a700hitter]

Get Kimbrel!

[a700hitter]

Febles said that the thinking is that Devers'problem is not knowing when to be aggressive in the field. He referred to that as his "internal clock". This could be something that experience will correct, but in the meantime, Cora needs to get his ass off the field late in close games.

[TylerD]

You know what I wish? I wish that Catchers were less reluctant to head out to the mound in situations like the one Brasier found himself in last night. If they have the mound visits to burn, screw the coaches. Head out there. Tell him to "take a deep breath, calm down, your stuff is great, I know because I am catching it. JUST THROW THE f***ING THING!"

 

Well said. I agree!