Harper and Machado

[Bellhorn04]

Ths might reinvigorate a little alte action into a dull off-season. The Phillies are already 4 deep in the outfield before signing Harper. At least one and maybe two of McCutchen, Altherr, or Williams could be moved. The could move Odubel Cabrera also, but that doesn't open up a corner slot.

 

Personally, there's nothing there that quickens my pulse. Once Harper signs there are only 3 things left for me this offseason:

 

1) Who gets Kimbrel.

2) Who gets Buchholz.

3) Does DD break down and acquire a reliever.

[notin]

Personally, there's nothing there that quickens my pulse. Once Harper signs there are only 3 things left for me this offseason:

 

1) Who gets Kimbrel.

2) Who gets Buchholz.

3) Does DD break down and acquire a reliever.

 

 

For me, it’s

 

1) Does Boston get another reliever?

2) Do the Sox replace the lost 2b depth and try to fill Cora’s desire for a defensive 3b?

3) Do the Sox try to expand outfield depth or SS depth? Admittedly, there isn’t much left for SS..

[moonslav59]

What would have happened if Kimbrel accepted the Red Sox qualifying offer--how would the Red Sox offseason been different? Maybe the Red Sox don't resign Eovaldi? Or maybe the Red Sox simply decide to go over the luxury tax thing again?

 

Yes, either no Eovaldi or we go over the max line for one year (more). I think the Sox were very impressed with Eovaldi last year. His heart and soul rubbed off on the rest of the team. I can't imagine Cora & DD not doing everything possible to bring back Eovaldi. Maybe, if we had CK and Eovaldi, we'd have not signed Pearce and trade someone else to stay under, but it's hard to see us trading JBJ or Vaz and Nunez to get under the max line.

 

I'm kinda glad he refused the QO, but a one year deal for someone like CK is not a bad thing.

 

[moonslav59]

Maybe so, but that doesn't mean I want them to keep adding top players.

 

If the cost in contract is overwhelming, then I'm all for it. The more the better.

 

[moonslav59]

Ths might reinvigorate a little alte action into a dull off-season. The Phillies are already 4 deep in the outfield before signing Harper. At least one and maybe two of McCutchen, Altherr, or Williams could be moved. The could move Odubel Cabrera also, but that doesn't open up a corner slot.

 

Didn't they just sign McCutchen? If so, isn't there a time frame where he can't be traded?

[moonslav59]

For me, it’s

 

1) Does Boston get another reliever?

Mid season- very likely.

 

2) Do the Sox replace the lost 2b depth...

No, Pedey, Nunez & Holt are enough, and Lin provides emergency depth.

 

...and try to fill Cora’s desire for a defensive 3b?

It's a need, but I think we just grit our teeth and hope Devers keeps improving on D.

 

3) Do the Sox try to expand outfield depth or SS depth? Admittedly, there isn’t much left for SS.

Maybe mid season, if needed, but I think our precious budget money will all go to the pen.

[Bellhorn04]

If the cost in contract is overwhelming, then I'm all for it. The more the better.

 

To each their own.

[dgalehouse]

I grew tired of complaining that the Yankees " bought the pennant " a long time ago . I wouldn't want to go back to those days .

[moonslav59]

I grew tired of complaining that the Yankees " bought the pennant " a long time ago . I wouldn't want to go back to those days .

 

I'm worried we have or will become the target of those same complaints from non Sox fans.

[notin]

Didn't they just sign McCutchen? If so, isn't there a time frame where he can't be traded?

 

I believe it's like July 15th, and he might have a partial or full NTC.

 

Altherr and/or Williams are more likely trade targets, since their salaries and control are not prohibitive to any team.

 

Of course, the Phillies have no pressing needs right now, either. Maybe a fifth SP, but it's not urgent...

[notin]

I'm worried we have or will become the target of those same complaints from non Sox fans.

 

Which is interesting because the only starting position players from outside the system are Martinez and Moreland...

[Bellhorn04]

I grew tired of complaining that the Yankees " bought the pennant " a long time ago . I wouldn't want to go back to those days .

 

I'm worried we have or will become the target of those same complaints from non Sox fans.

 

Things have changed. For a period of years the Yankees were outspending the next highest teams by 30-40%.

 

It doesn't bother me in the least now if we're the highest spending team.

 

Why? Because the main reasons we're the highest spending team or one of the highest are:

 

1) A great fan base who supports the team with their wallets and pays the highest average ticket prices in the game.

2) An excellent owner who is willing to pour the big revenue streams back into the product on the field.

 

It's a perfect storm of goodness for Sox fans and we should just enjoy it while it lasts.

[notin]

For me, it’s

 

 

2) Do the Sox replace the lost 2b depth...

No, Pedey, Nunez & Holt are enough, and Lin provides emergency depth.

 

...and try to fill Cora’s desire for a defensive 3b?

It's a need, but I think we just grit our teeth and hope Devers keeps improving on D.

n.[/b]

 

Maybe, but the Sox need to determine the health of Pedroia and Nunez. It's not exactly improbable both have issues physically. And that leaves Holt at the starting 2B as well as backup IF and backup OF. That might be too much for one player. (Actually it is too much for one player.)

 

Also the "defensive 3b" thing is on Cora's wish list from some article I read at some point. I think he is well aware of the abilities of Devers and the existence of Holt and Nunez and still wanted this role filled.

 

A minor league deal to someone like Logan Forsythe might not be a bad idea. With soxprospects.com listing Tony Renda as the starting 2B in Pawtucket, these's a really good chance he would not be taking precious playing time from a developing prospect.

 

The Sox did sign Esteban Quiroz for a reason at one point. And while they clearly viewed him as expendable this off-season, was that because they felt 2B was all shored up? Or because DD realyl wanted Colten Brewer, a pitcher he had tried to acquire on at least 2 previous occasions?

 

I think more of the latter, with the need for Brewer exceeding the need for Quiroz, but that doesn't mean Quiroz wan't needed.

 

And hey, we all probably though Brandon Phillips was a pointless signing last off-season, too...

[moonslav59]

Which is interesting because the only starting position players from outside the system are Martinez and Moreland...

 

You're assuming Pedey starts.

 

The fact is, our budget blew others away last year and will be ahead of everyone else this year, though not by as much.

 

Plus, our rotation is full or FA signees or trade acquisitions.

 

If we keep this up, we will hear the talk, whether we think it's justified or not.

Edited February 24, 2019 by moonslav59

[dgalehouse]

Things have changed. For a period of years the Yankees were outspending the next highest teams by 30-40%.

 

It doesn't bother me in the least now if we're the highest spending team.

 

Why? Because the main reasons we're the highest spending team or one of the highest are:

 

1) A great fan base who supports the team with their wallets and pays the highest average ticket prices in the game.

2) An excellent owner who is willing to pour the big revenue streams back into the product on the field.

 

It's a perfect storm of goodness for Sox fans and we should just enjoy it while it lasts.

 

Exactly. If the small time Charlies want to sing the blues , let them spend the bucks and improve their team . Let them sell out the ballpark every night . There are no poverty cases among MLB owners.

[moonslav59]

Maybe, but the Sox need to determine the health of Pedroia and Nunez. It's not exactly improbable both have issues physically. And that leaves Holt at the starting 2B as well as backup IF and backup OF. That might be too much for one player. (Actually it is too much for one player.)

 

Also the "defensive 3b" thing is on Cora's wish list from some article I read at some point. I think he is well aware of the abilities of Devers and the existence of Holt and Nunez and still wanted this role filled.

 

A minor league deal to someone like Logan Forsythe might not be a bad idea. With soxprospects.com listing Tony Renda as the starting 2B in Pawtucket, these's a really good chance he would not be taking precious playing time from a developing prospect.

 

The Sox did sign Esteban Quiroz for a reason at one point. And while they clearly viewed him as expendable this off-season, was that because they felt 2B was all shored up? Or because DD realyl wanted Colten Brewer, a pitcher he had tried to acquire on at least 2 previous occasions?

 

I think more of the latter, with the need for Brewer exceeding the need for Quiroz, but that doesn't mean Quiroz wan't needed.

 

And hey, we all probably though Brandon Phillips was a pointless signing last off-season, too...

 

I'm not saying I am happy with our extended depth at 2B and OF, but I don't see it as a priority right now. We can always pick up someone like Kinsler mid season, if needed.

 

"Finding out" about the health of Pedey and Nunez is nearly impossible. We'll know it when we see it. If both are hobbled, then yes, we need to add depth, but ST'ing should help us know more. We also have to know that at any moment, one or both could go down. I'm fine with Holt and Lin filling in until we trade for more depth.

 

If we keep Swihart around, somehow, we'll have some more depth. Chavis offers some 3B/1B depth, but his defense is suspect.

 

I think we built a pretty solid team with good depth and flexibility on the 25 man roster. Our AAA depth is not good, and we all know why, but it is what it is. I think DD is being smart by holding back on signing anyone and keeping enough budget space to make deals once we determine where the need is greatest.

 

[notin]

The AAA depth is what I’m talking about. It’s not like the lineup in Pawtucket is loaded with prospects who need playing time. Chavis and maybe Travis and Ockimey, and that’s about it. The Sox could and probably should fill another position or two down there with some of the unemployed MLB veterans still looking for work, like DD did with the pitching staff...

[moonslav59]

The AAA depth is what I’m talking about. It’s not like the lineup in Pawtucket is loaded with prospects who need playing time. Chavis and maybe Travis and Ockimey, and that’s about it. The Sox could and probably should fill another position or two down there with some of the unemployed MLB veterans still looking for work, like DD did with the pitching staff...

 

No arguments, here.

 

I thought you were talking about adding someone who would add to the budget.

 

I'm not sure we need to do much better than Centeno, Lin, Chavis, Travis, Renda, G Hernandez and even Brentz. They all look like typical AAAA players. Who is out there, right now, wnho is a significant upgrade over these guys and won't cost us a bump is budget costs?

 

[Jasonbay44]

He's a cancer.

 

His contract will weigh them down for many years. (I plan on being alive and a Sox fan for the remainder of Machado's deal.)

 

When we beat the Yanks again, it would have been even sweeter.

 

 

He does some dumb s***, but he isn't a cancer in the clubhouse like some people are saying, almost all of his former teammates on the Orioles and Dodgers loved him. His contract may "weigh them down" in the future, but for the present, it makes them the world series favorite. I don't care if I like him or not, I don't want one of the best players in baseball signing with the Yankees because in 5 years, after signing and he helps them appear in numerous playoff games and potentially world series, it'll hurt them.

 

Dodgers teammates loved him:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-white-sox-dodgers-manny-machado-20190215-story.html

Dodgers teammates loved him.

 

Steve Pearce said he was one of the best teammates he ever had and they are incredibly close friends and hangout all the time

https://weei.radio.com/blogs/john-tomase/manny-machado-red-sox-first-baseman-steve-pearce-loves-former-orioles-teammate

 

Numerous other Orioles, including Jonathan Schoop, who became best friends with Machado, also said he was a great teammate and broke down crying when Manny was traded

http://www.masnsports.com/steve-melewski/2018/07/jonathan-schoop-on-his-emotional-goodbye-with-manny-machado.html

 

Is Machado, a douche, dirty, that stuff on the field towards opponents? maybe, sure. But a cancer? He has never been a cancer to his own teammates and absolutely would make any team he signed with better.

[notin]

No arguments, here.

 

I thought you were talking about adding someone who would add to the budget.

 

I'm not sure we need to do much better than Centeno, Lin, Chavis, Travis, Renda, G Hernandez and even Brentz. They all look like typical AAAA players. Who is out there, right now, wnho is a significant upgrade over these guys and won't cost us a bump is budget costs?

 

 

 

Minor league deals. Now maybe a reliever to the budget, but I can see why DD isn't doing it. Sure there is a very good chance Bud Norris or Ryan Madson or ?? would make the team, but the fear is probably that they might only be marignally better, or possbily even worse than one from the Brewer/Tapia/Putnam/Mejia crowd, but would take their roster spot anyway. There is probably a reason no one is targeting Bud Norris for their MLB roster even at this point in the game...

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Machado would have allowed the Yankees to trade Andujar for a valuable starting pitcher while greatly upgrading their defense at 3b. Thus, signing Machado would have been a significant upgrade in terms of the Yankees overall talent-level and value--transferring Andujar's value to the starting staff. To be sure, the Yankees would be better with Machado than without. The upgrade in value would have cost a lot of money (300 million) but not any talent.

 

In contrast, the Paxton deal cost the Yankees some serious talent in Sheffield. I don't mind those moves--the Yankees gain something but also lose something.

[notin]

Or the Yankees could have slid Andujar across the diamond to first base. He wasn’t exactly giving Yankee fans Graig Nettles flashbacks over there, and very few people confuse Bird and Voit with Lou Gehrig...

[moonslav59]

He does some dumb s***, but he isn't a cancer in the clubhouse like some people are saying, almost all of his former teammates on the Orioles and Dodgers loved him. His contract may "weigh them down" in the future, but for the present, it makes them the world series favorite. I don't care if I like him or not, I don't want one of the best players in baseball signing with the Yankees because in 5 years, after signing and he helps them appear in numerous playoff games and potentially world series, it'll hurt them.

 

Dodgers teammates loved him:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-white-sox-dodgers-manny-machado-20190215-story.html

Dodgers teammates loved him.

 

Steve Pearce said he was one of the best teammates he ever had and they are incredibly close friends and hangout all the time

https://weei.radio.com/blogs/john-tomase/manny-machado-red-sox-first-baseman-steve-pearce-loves-former-orioles-teammate

 

Numerous other Orioles, including Jonathan Schoop, who became best friends with Machado, also said he was a great teammate and broke down crying when Manny was traded

http://www.masnsports.com/steve-melewski/2018/07/jonathan-schoop-on-his-emotional-goodbye-with-manny-machado.html

 

Is Machado, a douche, dirty, that stuff on the field towards opponents? maybe, sure. But a cancer? He has never been a cancer to his own teammates and absolutely would make any team he signed with better.

 

I never said "clubhouse." His non hussle and A-hole antics on the field are cancerous and lead the young players on his team down the wrong path.

 

I wouldn't want him on the Sox for $8M a year x 10 years.

 

So, of course having the Yanks getting him at $300+M/10 would make me happy.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Or the Yankees could have slid Andujar across the diamond to first base. He wasn’t exactly giving Yankee fans Graig Nettles flashbacks over there, and very few people confuse Bird and Voit with Lou Gehrig...

 

They could have done that. However, it is so easy to find 1b. I would rather trade Andujuar for an SP and take my chances with Voit and Bird. If Voit and Bird don't work out, the Yankees can find a serviceable 1b somewhere else.

 

Also, who knows how much value Andujar will have a few months from now. If he has a sophomore slump, his trade value will be completely shot based on the fact that he sucks defensively. The Yankees may look back and wonder why they didn't trade Andujar when they had the opportunity to get something good for him.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Jasonbay44]

I never said "clubhouse." His non hussle and A-hole antics on the field are cancerous and lead the young players on his team down the wrong path.

 

I wouldn't want him on the Sox for $8M a year x 10 years.

 

So, of course having the Yanks getting him at $300+M/10 would make me happy.

Like who? Use one example of a player playing with Machado and acting like that. Most of the young guys he played with said he was easily approachable and helpful and a good teammate. All of his antics were doing things to the opposing team, he has never been labeled as a cancer on the field for the team he's playing for.

[Bellhorn04]

The rumor mill now has it that the Dodgers are making a surprise late push for Harper.

[moonslav59]

Like who? Use one example of a player playing with Machado and acting like that. Most of the young guys he played with said he was easily approachable and helpful and a good teammate. All of his antics were doing things to the opposing team, he has never been labeled as a cancer on the field for the team he's playing for.

 

Name one that has not.

 

It's unprovable, but it you think he sets a good example for the young players on his team that see the star of their team act like he does on the field, then we'll have to just agree to disagree.

 

Look, I had issues with Papi not running out grounders, but with his fragile legs, I gave him a pass. Plus, he didn't play dirty.

 

I would not like Machado on our team, even if he hit 50 HRs. I believe he is a cancer. I believe he will decline for the last 5 years of his deal and be a budget burden even in his prime years.

 

I have no issues with anyone who looks beyond the antics and still likes him, but he's not the type of player I'd want on my team.

 

[moonslav59]

Dodgers now in on Harper.

 

If they get him, they'll have 3 LHBs to fill the LF-1B slots (Muncy, Bellinger and Pederson)- all kill righties, but benching Pederson vs LHPs would not be a bad idea.

 

They'd probably trade Pederson.

[notin]

Dodgers now in on Harper.

 

If they get him, they'll have 3 LHBs to fill the LF-1B slots (Muncy, Bellinger and Pederson)- all kill righties, but benching Pederson vs LHPs would not be a bad idea.

 

They'd probably trade Pederson.

 

I am starting to get the feeling that Harper will still be negotiating his contract and meeting with new teams on Opening Day, 2020...

[moonslav59]

I am starting to get the feeling that Harper will still be negotiating his contract and meeting with new teams on Opening Day, 2020...

 

I think he signs today or Tuesday...Wednesday at the latest. It's Keuchel and Kimbrel I wonder about.