The Alex Cora Managerial Decision Thread

[Maxbialystock]

Here's another one from me:

 

You can pitch 5.2 shutout innings and not get a QS.

 

But if you were able to get one more out, even if you gave up 2 or 3 runs in the process, you'd get a QS.

 

As with many stats there's an arbitrary nature to it...

 

Of course it's arbitrary. You gotta draw a line somewhere. I like that standard because it requires a starter to go 2/3 of a game and to limit the damage to 3 runs, which I agree is an ERA of 4.5 but is earned by facing the same lineup a minimum of twice and sometimes three times, which is no mean feat. At the same time, you don't have to be a 10 K complete game ace to get a quality start.

 

Yesterday ERod did go 5.2 and gave up 0 runs, but he also loaded the bases in the 6th, had thrown 110 pitches, and badly needed someone to come in and bail him out. I loved what ERod did and said so on the game thread,but I'm also fine with that not being an official quality start.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Maxbialystock

[Dojji]

Personally I'm never too upset when the 4 and 5 starters go 5+. Their job at that spot in rotation is simply not to be overmatched and give the team a chance to win, if you can get more from the 4th and 5th guy than that, it's pretty much gravy in my mind.

 

Far as I'm concerned, Eddie did his job. He kept the scoreboard clean so that Cora could use the lower options in his bullpen to finish the game rather than taxing the key relief arms, and pushed into the 6th inning. For a mid-echelon starter, that's exactly Eddie's job description. The fact that he hung up 5 zeros is a bonus that made the game easier for the offense. I'll take it.

[Maxbialystock]

Personally I'm never too upset when the 4 and 5 starters go 5+. Their job at that spot in rotation is simply not to be overmatched and give the team a chance to win, if you can get more from the 4th and 5th guy than that, it's pretty much gravy in my mind.

 

Far as I'm concerned, Eddie did his job. He kept the scoreboard clean so that Cora could use the lower options in his bullpen to finish the game rather than taxing the key relief arms, and pushed into the 6th inning. For a mid-echelon starter, that's exactly Eddie's job description. The fact that he hung up 5 zeros is a bonus that made the game easier for the offense. I'll take it.

 

Agree completely He needed a whole lot of pitches to get those 17 outs, but he more than did his job--and the lineup did theirs, ditto the bullpen.

 

Since this thread is about Cora, I also think he managed this game beautifully. I would never have started JBJ, but the little sucker came through in part because his manager gave him another shot. He also left ERod in just long enough and brought in Hembree--again, not my choice-- got 4 outs and preserved that goose egg for ERod. Then Poyner and Barnes to finish off the shut out.

[Dojji]

Nothing wrong with Cora's performance so far. He's been solid, and put the team in a position to make the most of their ability to this point. I wasn't really concerned about Cora at the outset, although I did want a more experienced field manager at the time Cora was hired (I wanted DeMarlo Hale). I'm very satisfied with the work he's doing.

 

No knock on Farrell, who is, I've said all along, an average manager at worst, and one who did some good work for us and had to take it hard on the chin when the FO misfired in 14 and 15 but was a good soldier about it -- but Cora does seem to be a few ticks better than average, so the team did improve itself by moving from Farrell to Cora.

[Kimmi]

Patience is a must.

 

But on the other hand, Bradley is 5 for his last 56. Give me 56 at-bats against MLB pitching and I can come within 5 hits of that total. Even the struggling Vazquez has over twice as many hits in his last 56 at bats...

 

Bradley has been extremely feeble and difficult to watch at the plate, there's no denying that. Fortunately, the Sox are keeping pace with the Yankees, so we can afford to be a little more patient with him.

[Kimmi]

I'm really not a fan of QS. It's fine for what it is, but I agree with a lot of the criticisms of it.

 

As you say, it's fine for what it is. IMO, if someone pitches a quality start, then you know he kept the team in the game and gave them a chance, despite what the ERA of 6 runs in 3 innings might look like.

 

Game scores would be a better measure.

[oldtimer]

As you say, it's fine for what it is. IMO, if someone pitches a quality start, then you know he kept the team in the game and gave them a chance, despite what the ERA of 6 runs in 3 innings might look like.

 

Game scores would be a better measure.

 

To me, the starter with a larger number of quality pitches to use has a better chance of getting through the lineup multiple times. That is especially true if the starter also has good command of his pitches and can throw them at any point in the count. E-Rod has his fast ball, multiple versions of his changeup and does throw a slider. He is a nibbler though so the pich numbers build up quickly. Many hitters today adjust on the fly and can sit on one pitch if they know it is coming and have seen it before. Relievers can get by with less since they may only go one inning. I

[notin]

Bradley has been extremely feeble and difficult to watch at the plate, there's no denying that. Fortunately, the Sox are keeping pace with the Yankees, so we can afford to be a little more patient with him.

 

That's really the bigest reason.

 

For all the complaining that Bradley or Bradley and Vazquez are costing this team wins, you'd think the Sox had won a lot less than 68% of their games...

[Kimmi]

To me, the starter with a larger number of quality pitches to use has a better chance of getting through the lineup multiple times. That is especially true if the starter also has good command of his pitches and can throw them at any point in the count. E-Rod has his fast ball, multiple versions of his changeup and does throw a slider. He is a nibbler though so the pich numbers build up quickly. Many hitters today adjust on the fly and can sit on one pitch if they know it is coming and have seen it before. Relievers can get by with less since they may only go one inning. I

 

The thing that's so frustrating with ERod is that far too often, he gets ahead 0-2 on a batter, then the next thing you know, the count is 3-2. Why doesn't he attack the 3rd strike the same way he attacks strike one and strike two?

[mvp 78]

The thing that's so frustrating with ERod is that far too often, he gets ahead 0-2 on a batter, then the next thing you know, the count is 3-2. Why doesn't he attack the 3rd strike the same way he attacks strike one and strike two?

Srsly

[Kimmi]

That's really the bigest reason.

 

For all the complaining that Bradley or Bradley and Vazquez are costing this team wins, you'd think the Sox had won a lot less than 68% of their games...

 

Yup. If one didn't follow the sport outside of reading some of these threads, they'd be shocked to see how well the Sox are doing.

[Maxbialystock]

Yup. If one didn't follow the sport outside of reading some of these threads, they'd be shocked to see how well the Sox are doing.

 

And they would wonder why Cora still had his job because on talksox he does nothing right. Well, nothing that actually gets mentioned. His gaffes begin with the lineups and go downhill from there.

[greenwell]

I heard the other day the redsox are 14-1 in the last game of a series this year. Is this just a statistical anomaly or a credit to Cora keeping them rested? Or is it a matter of staying focused when it matters. I know every game counts the same, but the last game always has a little added significance, either avoid a sweep, win the series or complete a sweep.

[Slasher9]

Here's another Rookie Manager mistake IMO (of course).

it is obvious to everyone on the planet except for Rookie Cora that HanRam is struggling big time at the plate.

1) Rookie Cora continues to bat him in front of JDM (perhaps drop him down in the lineup for a bit????)

2) Rookie Cora continue to start HanRam vs RHP when a LHB + better defensive first baseman is sitting on the bench (MM).

3) Hanleys AB's are so bad right now most managers would sit him against both RHP & LHP for a bit.

4) not only do we have an excellent option at first base (MM) to replace hanley - by allowing hanley to continue to get AB's Rookie Cora is almost guaranteeing Hanley's option vests. perhaps the reason is that Cora is intimidated by the veteran Hanley? Perhaps the reason is Hanley has a secret deal to give Cora 1/2 of his 2019 vested $$$$?

 

whatever the case...Cora is managing this particular situation like a....Rookie Manager without a Clue.

[Bellhorn04]

Here's another Rookie Manager mistake IMO (of course).

it is obvious to everyone on the planet except for Rookie Cora that HanRam is struggling big time at the plate.

1) Rookie Cora continues to bat him in front of JDM (perhaps drop him down in the lineup for a bit????)

2) Rookie Cora continue to start HanRam vs RHP when a LHB + better defensive first baseman is sitting on the bench (MM).

3) Hanleys AB's are so bad right now most managers would sit him against both RHP & LHP for a bit.

4) not only do we have an excellent option at first base (MM) to replace hanley - by allowing hanley to continue to get AB's Rookie Cora is almost guaranteeing Hanley's option vests. perhaps the reason is that Cora is intimidated by the veteran Hanley? Perhaps the reason is Hanley has a secret deal to give Cora 1/2 of his 2019 vested $$$$?

 

whatever the case...Cora is managing this particular situation like a....Rookie Manager without a Clue.

 

He has his reasons for doing it. We just don't know exactly what they are yet.

[mvp 78]

Here's another Rookie Manager mistake IMO (of course).

it is obvious to everyone on the planet except for Rookie Cora that HanRam is struggling big time at the plate.

1) Rookie Cora continues to bat him in front of JDM (perhaps drop him down in the lineup for a bit????)

2) Rookie Cora continue to start HanRam vs RHP when a LHB + better defensive first baseman is sitting on the bench (MM).

3) Hanleys AB's are so bad right now most managers would sit him against both RHP & LHP for a bit.

4) not only do we have an excellent option at first base (MM) to replace hanley - by allowing hanley to continue to get AB's Rookie Cora is almost guaranteeing Hanley's option vests. perhaps the reason is that Cora is intimidated by the veteran Hanley? Perhaps the reason is Hanley has a secret deal to give Cora 1/2 of his 2019 vested $$$$?

 

whatever the case...Cora is managing this particular situation like a....Rookie Manager without a Clue.

 

He's said ever since he was hired that he loves Hanley. He's going to give Hanley a long leash for better or worse. I think he believes Hanley will hit his way out of it.

[Station 13]

He's said ever since he was hired that he loves Hanley. He's going to give Hanley a long leash for better or worse. I think he believes Hanley will hit his way out of it.

 

He can play Hanley, just cannot put him in the middle of the order.

[mvp 78]

He can play Hanley, just cannot put him in the middle of the order.

 

Third in the order isn't a big deal. He's been better than Nunez/JBJ/Vaz. If they got more from one of the bottom third, Hanley could be moved down.

 

To me, the bigger case is just to play Moreland more.

[oldtimer]

Third in the order isn't a big deal. He's been better than Nunez/JBJ/Vaz. If they got more from one of the bottom third, Hanley could be moved down.

 

To me, the bigger case is just to play Moreland more.

 

Because of Moreland there are a lot of options. For instance Bogie leadoff and Betts third, with Moreland where bogie is now. Just put Moreland 3rd is another possibility against right handed pitching. There are many more possibilities. I like a guy with some speed in the table setting role and some power in the 3, 4 and 5 holes. I think Cora was trying to do that, except that Hanley has gone into a deep slump. Time for some different thinking.

[Maxbialystock]

Here's another Rookie Manager mistake IMO (of course).

it is obvious to everyone on the planet except for Rookie Cora that HanRam is struggling big time at the plate.

1) Rookie Cora continues to bat him in front of JDM (perhaps drop him down in the lineup for a bit????)

2) Rookie Cora continue to start HanRam vs RHP when a LHB + better defensive first baseman is sitting on the bench (MM).

3) Hanleys AB's are so bad right now most managers would sit him against both RHP & LHP for a bit.

4) not only do we have an excellent option at first base (MM) to replace hanley - by allowing hanley to continue to get AB's Rookie Cora is almost guaranteeing Hanley's option vests. perhaps the reason is that Cora is intimidated by the veteran Hanley? Perhaps the reason is Hanley has a secret deal to give Cora 1/2 of his 2019 vested $$$$?

 

whatever the case...Cora is managing this particular situation like a....Rookie Manager without a Clue.

 

We get it. You hate HanRam and want him benched or batted 11th or whatever. You are certainly entitled to your opinion as we all are.

 

But when you then use that to paint Cora as an inexperienced, actually, a lousy manager you need to have more than that because managers are evaluated on wins and losses and absolutely not on their lineups.

 

Right now the Sox have the best winning percentage and the most wins in MLB. Their hitting this year is much better than last year and 2d best in MLB. And all that has happened while HanRam has been in a slump, ditto JBJ, Ditto Vazquez/Leon, and Nunez almost in a slump and certainly not as good as last year.

 

I happen to like Moreland in the lineup instead of HanRam or JBJ, take your pick, but more than that I want to win games not only now but for the rest of the season and, if possible, the postseason. So, me, I give this manager a lot of slack because overall the team so far is way better than I expected. If you had a single honest bone in your body, you would agree this team is better than expected even though it has flaws.

[Slasher9]

He's said ever since he was hired that he loves Hanley. He's going to give Hanley a long leash for better or worse. I think he believes Hanley will hit his way out of it.

 

see #1 on my list.

[Slasher9]

We get it. You hate HanRam and want him benched or batted 11th or whatever. You are certainly entitled to your opinion as we all are.

 

 

incorrect again max. I love hanram. in fact, if you look at the hanram thread from before the season there were a few of us that were very much oK with hanley being on our team. before the hot april. my opinion is as stated....it has nothing to do with "hate" for hanley. as I actually like the dude.....

[Slasher9]

Third in the order isn't a big deal. He's been better than Nunez/JBJ/Vaz. If they got more from one of the bottom third, Hanley could be moved down.

 

To me, the bigger case is just to play Moreland more.

 

will be interesting to see the lineup when pedroia comes back. I would expect hanley to be dropped in the order at that point...

[mvp 78]

will be interesting to see the lineup when pedroia comes back. I would expect hanley to be dropped in the order at that point...

 

Maybe they ease Pedey in 7th for a few days? IDK. Pedey is definitely better than Hanley at this point.

[Maxbialystock]

incorrect again max. I love hanram. in fact, if you look at the hanram thread from before the season there were a few of us that were very much oK with hanley being on our team. before the hot april. my opinion is as stated....it has nothing to do with "hate" for hanley. as I actually like the dude.....

 

Fine. You actually like HanRam. If so, why no slack for Cora? And why no answer to the question, is this team not playing way better than you expected?

Edited May 24, 2018 by Maxbialystock

[Slasher9]

Fine. You actually like HanRam. If so, why no slack for Cora? And why no answer to the question, is this team not playing way better than you expected?

I have plenty of slack for Cora. this thread is about his decisions. thus far I have pointed out 5 of his decisions that I disagree with. apparently you agree with all of his decisions (which is your right - just like it's my right to point out what I deem poor decisions). as for the record...I don't think anyone anticipated a 17-2 start. I think many of us felt the offense would be better with JDM and rebounds from some of our current roster.

[Kimmi]

And they would wonder why Cora still had his job because on talksox he does nothing right. Well, nothing that actually gets mentioned. His gaffes begin with the lineups and go downhill from there.

 

I have really liked what Cora has done so far. I was reading today about a bet he made with Devers for every walk he drew and every opposite field HR he hit. That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about when it comes to being a good manager.

[Maxbialystock]

I have plenty of slack for Cora. this thread is about his decisions. thus far I have pointed out 5 of his decisions that I disagree with. apparently you agree with all of his decisions (which is your right - just like it's my right to point out what I deem poor decisions). as for the record...I don't think anyone anticipated a 17-2 start. I think many of us felt the offense would be better with JDM and rebounds from some of our current roster.

 

I would believe you when you say you give him plenty of slack if you could cite just one example when you stated on talksox that he managed a single game well or even that he made one good decision in one specific game.

 

I think you are on record as saying MLB home plate umps should do better than 87% correct calls on balls and strikes. The Sox have played 50 games so far. Assuming at least 10 decisions for each game--including lineups, pitching decisions, placement of fielders, baserunning signals, etc, etc--that's 500 decisions so far. But you focus on the 5 ones you don't like and all of which can be defended and ignore the other 99% that apparently were OK.

 

I admit I'm completely on the other side of this. I give any manager a lot of slack because of their greater experience and access to trends, stats, players stengths/weaknesses, the context of the season, etc. On top of that, I believe a MLB manager has less ability to affect what happens on the field than any NFL coach or NBA coach or even NHL coach in their domains.

 

On the other hand, I do agree there is a psychological dimension to MLB managing and that managers can indirectly have a positive or negative effect on his players.

 

Ultimately, however, it boils down to wins and losses. And in the first 50 games this season Cora has been the best manager in MLB.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Maxbialystock

[Slasher9]

If I don’t post a mistake in this thread that I believe he made then I agree with his decisions or at the very least understand what he was thinking. So that leaves a TON of Cora decisions that I have agreed with

[jacksonianmarch]

Now that Hanley is gone, I do forsee the sox trying to sneak Swihart into the OF mix. JBJ got a big vote of confidence not being sent down and with Hanley out of the picture, CF is his unless he continues to suck. The other option is to throw Swihart out in LF and move Beni to CF