Stanton: I KNEW there was a reason I didn't like Jeter!

[Carter]

Let me preface: I have always hated the Yankees. Even before I learned that the Phil/KC A's served as a f***ing AAA team for them for decades, I hated them. But in recent years as they slid into suckage I found myself going soft; actually pulling for them to do better.

 

Well, that s*** is over. Jeter is a f***ing mole for the Yanks and I can't believe there is so little about that discussed by the taking heads. Is NY paying off every sports writer in America???

 

So what are you guys gonna do to keep pace in the East

[Bellhorn04]

Jeter defends himself: "I'm just a patsy!"

[harmony]

Despite the anticipated widespread criticism, the Miami front office made the right business decision.

 

I suspect the Marlins will exceed modest expectations on the field next year.

[Bellhorn04]

Despite the anticipated widespread criticism, the Miami front office made the right business decision.

 

I suspect the Marlins will exceed modest expectations on the field next year.

 

Depends how you define 'modest' I guess.

[moonslav59]

So what are you guys gonna do to keep pace in the East?

 

Put out a hit on him?

[Carter]

Jeter defends himself: "I'm just a patsy!"

 

 

********...Jeter says nothing, shows up for nothing and does nothing... except MOLE.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Carter

[jacksonianmarch]

I can understand fans not getting basic business sense, but the Stanton thing isn't on Jeter. Jeter had two deals in place, one with StL and another with SF. He accepted the packages and all he needed was Stanton to waive his NTC. He didn't. He came back with a list of 4 teams. The Cubs couldn't afford him as they had their own issues with payroll (especially the ridiculously bad contract of Heyward out there). The Astros are too busy trying to save cash to re-sign their impending FA's after 2018. The Dodgers are really trying to cut payroll in response to a likely opt out of their star pitcher. The Dodgers offer was amusing. AdGon and Kazmir for Stanton and $30 mil. No prospects, just dead contracts from players who probably aren't ever playing again plus $30 mil. When you consider the two viable options were the garbage LA offer and the Yankees offer, you see why Stanton is in pinstripes

[Bellhorn04]

Jeter only has a 4%, or 1/25th, shareholding of the team, I'm not sure how many people realize this.

[moonslav59]

I can understand fans not getting basic business sense, but the Stanton thing isn't on Jeter. Jeter had two deals in place, one with StL and another with SF. He accepted the packages and all he needed was Stanton to waive his NTC. He didn't. He came back with a list of 4 teams. The Cubs couldn't afford him as they had their own issues with payroll (especially the ridiculously bad contract of Heyward out there). The Astros are too busy trying to save cash to re-sign their impending FA's after 2018. The Dodgers are really trying to cut payroll in response to a likely opt out of their star pitcher. The Dodgers offer was amusing. AdGon and Kazmir for Stanton and $30 mil. No prospects, just dead contracts from players who probably aren't ever playing again plus $30 mil. When you consider the two viable options were the garbage LA offer and the Yankees offer, you see why Stanton is in pinstripes

 

He had to cut $30M.

 

Trading Gordon, Ozuna, Vargas and Prado could have done that. He probably could have traded Stanton with 51 HRs at the deadline for more than he got from Cashman.

[jacksonianmarch]

He had to cut $30M.

 

Trading Gordon, Ozuna, Vargas and Prado could have done that. He probably could have traded Stanton with 51 HRs at the deadline for more than he got from Cashman.

 

Yes, they had to cut $30 mil, but what would they have been left with? They were a sub .500 team with a great offense, absolutely awful pitching staff, no farm system and no money to spend. Would you rather it be Giancarlo Stanton and the bumbling Marlins rumbling into stadiums losing 100 games but having Giancarlo hit 60 bombs? That's ridiculous. Once they determined that they had to trade off assets rather than add, they had to rebuild. Their farm was something like #28 in the game. It wont be after the rest is burnt to the ground for sure

[notin]

Yes, they had to cut $30 mil, but what would they have been left with? They were a sub .500 team with a great offense, absolutely awful pitching staff, no farm system and no money to spend. Would you rather it be Giancarlo Stanton and the bumbling Marlins rumbling into stadiums losing 100 games but having Giancarlo hit 60 bombs? That's ridiculous. Once they determined that they had to trade off assets rather than add, they had to rebuild. Their farm was something like #28 in the game. It wont be after the rest is burnt to the ground for sure

 

Isn't that what they are now?

 

They dealt two of their 3 best players and got two minor league pitchers, only one of whom is remotely MLB-ready.

 

They could have waited to deal Stanton in July. They would pay only one half his salary this year, and Stanton might have expanded his acceptable teams. It's not like his list had any thought in it; all he did was name the four teams that played in the LCS last year.

 

By rushing the whole process, the Marlins let Stanton dictate everything and they dealt a reigning MVP for less prospects than it takes to get a half of a season of a closer...

[Bellhorn04]

They could have waited to deal Stanton in July. They would pay only one half his salary this year, and Stanton might have expanded his acceptable teams. It's not like his list had any thought in it; all he did was name the four teams that played in the LCS last year.

 

By rushing the whole process, the Marlins let Stanton dictate everything and they dealt a reigning MVP for less prospects than it takes to get a half of a season of a closer...

 

Waiting to deal him would have entailed some significant risk. He could have gotten hurt or off to a bad start.

 

And in the history of baseball how many teams have made a deadline trade for a $275 million contract?

 

Remember they put him on waivers this year and no one claimed him.

 

This way at least they were guaranteed to dump most of the contract.

[jacksonianmarch]

Exactly. His stock was never higher coming off a 59 HR season

[moonslav59]

Yes, they had to cut $30 mil, but what would they have been left with? They were a sub .500 team with a great offense, absolutely awful pitching staff, no farm system and no money to spend. Would you rather it be Giancarlo Stanton and the bumbling Marlins rumbling into stadiums losing 100 games but having Giancarlo hit 60 bombs? That's ridiculous. Once they determined that they had to trade off assets rather than add, they had to rebuild. Their farm was something like #28 in the game. It wont be after the rest is burnt to the ground for sure

 

I can see why Jeter is now dumping everyone: they suck.

 

However, with Stanton's long term contract, they could have cut $30M elsewhere. They already have, actually.

 

Keeping Stanton could have done 3 things:

 

1) Keep some semblance of entertainment value for the team, at least until they trade him later.

2) If the team rebuilds and can contend in 2,3 or 4 years, Stanton is still there.

3) Stanton's trade value might be higher in July, and he might have expanded the teams he'd play for to just about anyone contending.

 

(I get the fact that he could have lost value due to injury or only having 15 HRs at the deadline, but I'd play the odds.)

 

Just because he hit 59 HRs this year, doesn't mean his trade value was highest and a rush trade had to be made. There was no rush. The $30M had already been slashed with other trades.

[moonslav59]

Exactly. His stock was never higher coming off a 59 HR season

His stock fell when he named just 4 teams, and 3 had little interest.

 

Had Jeter told Stanton, "Look, we already cut $30M, I'm keeping you here, GS would have folded and expanded the list. He'd probably be in SF right now or within a month. .

[notin]

Waiting to deal him would have entailed some significant risk. He could have gotten hurt or off to a bad start.

 

And in the history of baseball how many teams have made a deadline trade for a $275 million contract?

 

Remember they put him on waivers this year and no one claimed him.

 

This way at least they were guaranteed to dump most of the contract.

 

Yes, he could have gotten hurt. But they were limited to one team to trade him to. Better off keeping him. Considering he only named LCS teams, he would have likely expanded his preferences if other teams were in the picture in July.

 

Are you really going to play games with the contract figure? When A-Rod got dealt, a contract like that looked crazy and ominous. Now, it's market value. Two players should easily top that figure next season, and by a lot. Stanton makes close to $30mill per. What do you think Betts is going to get in 3 years?

[jacksonianmarch]

His stock fell when he named just 4 teams, and 3 had little interest.

 

Had Jeter told Stanton, "Look, we already cut $30M, I'm keeping you here, GS would have folded and expanded the list. He'd probably be in SF right now or within a month. .

 

Or he could have continued to collect his massive salary and either stayed on for the duration or opted out. The Marlins investors need to make some money in 2018. I don’t blame them. The best way is a total tear down.

[notin]

Or he could have continued to collect his massive salary and either stayed on for the duration or opted out. The Marlins investors need to make some money in 2018. I don’t blame them. The best way is a total tear down.

 

So the best way was to trade away the contract that was a show of good faith to the fans? The fans who buy tickets and watch local broadcasts?

 

It was like saying "Hey Marlins fans? Remember when we gutted this team before but we wanted to show you we were serious about baseball so we gave Stanton that megacontract? Well... f*** you."

 

That franchise will be out of Florida within 3 years. Any fans they have left visiting fans....

[jacksonianmarch]

They can’t leave in 3 years as they just got a new ballpark and that usually means a LONG lease. Thing is, they tore down twice before even when they were winning. The fans don’t come whether they win or lose. They will make revenue sharing money while losing and build up again.

[Bellhorn04]

Are you really going to play games with the contract figure? When A-Rod got dealt, a contract like that looked crazy and ominous. Now, it's market value.

 

Funny, I thought you were the same guy who has repeatedly condemned Dombrowski for the Miggy and Verlander contracts. Now you're suggesting it's A-OK for most teams to take on Stanton's contract?

[Bellhorn04]

Two players should easily top that figure next season, and by a lot. Stanton makes close to $30mill per. What do you think Betts is going to get in 3 years?

 

I'll believe that Harper and Machado are going to easily top Stanton's contract when I see it. I don't get why everyone thinks the inflation rate for baseball salaries is going to continue to escalate. This last CBA seemed to indicate otherwise.

[notin]

Funny, I thought you were the same guy who has repeatedly condemned Dombrowski for the Miggy and Verlander contracts. Now you're suggesting it's A-OK for most teams to take on Stanton's contract?

 

Neither of those contracts were for 28yo reigning MVPs who were signed to show fans the team was serious about baseball as a show of good faith. Do you think Cabrerea's contract represents current market value for a 35yo 1b?

[Bellhorn04]

Neither of those contracts were for 28yo reigning MVPs who were signed to show fans the team was serious about baseball as a show of good faith. Do you think Cabrerea's contract represents current market value for a 35yo 1b?

 

No, but I think there's a pretty good chance Stanton's contract won't look so good in 5 years either.

 

My point is just that there aren't very many teams who can take on that kind of money and risk.

 

I don't think if the Twins, for example, were in the race in July this year you could add them to the list of possible suitors for Stanton at the deadline.

[Carter]

Interesting info...all of it, but it won't change my mind. FWI i personally breathed a sigh when he turned down St. Louis. Will these teams ever learn?

[jacksonianmarch]

Cabrera’s deal goes to 42 IIRC. That’s a stupid deal regardless. Stanton’s deal goes to 38. While not ideal, there’s a good chance Stanton is still showing elite power by then. He just might not have any other useful characteristics by then

[notin]

Cabrera’s deal goes to 42 IIRC. That’s a stupid deal regardless. Stanton’s deal goes to 38. While not ideal, there’s a good chance Stanton is still showing elite power by then. He just might not have any other useful characteristics by then

 

And there is always a chsnce Stanton opts out. He'll be younger when he opts out than Cabrera was when he signed that deal....

[Bellhorn04]

And there is always a chsnce Stanton opts out. He'll be younger when he opts out than Cabrera was when he signed that deal....

 

Correct, but the opt-out only adds more risk for the team holding the contract. The opt-out means you're only guaranteed to have his services for 3 years, but if he goes downhill you're stuck with his 25 million AAV on the books for 10 years.

[moonslav59]

Or he could have continued to collect his massive salary and either stayed on for the duration or opted out. The Marlins investors need to make some money in 2018. I don’t blame them. The best way is a total tear down.

 

I agree, but the premise was they needed to just cut $30M: Jeter chose to cut more.

 

They could have set their sites on 3 years from now while they still has Stanton as the foundation. However, that was not my reasoning for my suggestion. My reasoning was that Stanton hates losing, and would have widened the team list for trades to the point where Jeter could have maximized the return. I firmly believe this, but it is just conjecture on my part.

 

Jeter misplayed his hand, and coincidentally (I doubt it) it helped his ex-team immensely.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree, but the premise was they needed to just cut $30M: Jeter chose to cut more.

 

They could have set their sites on 3 years from now while they still has Stanton as the foundation. However, that was not my reasoning for my suggestion. My reasoning was that Stanton hates losing, and would have widened the team list for trades to the point where Jeter could have maximized the return. I firmly believe this, but it is just conjecture on my part.

 

Jeter misplayed his hand, and coincidentally (I doubt it) it helped his ex-team immensely.

 

Jeter is a 4% owner - what makes you think he's the one calling the shots?

[Carter]

Jeter is a 4% owner - what makes you think he's the one calling the shots?

 

Do you think Miami needed to sell DJ that 4%? They hired him on the perception of his perceived "cashet"... It is hard to tell to what degree he's involved in trades and such. Would he have leaked that he had no part in this deal if he didn't? What's best for the look of the organization; buck passers that they all are?

 

I must admit that his lack of participation/attendance in team functions reminds me of Phil Jackson (minus the tweets)