Yankees make blockbuster deal with CWS

[jacksonianmarch]

Yankees deal Tito Polo, Blake Rutherford, Ian Clarkin and Tyler Clippard for Tommy Kahnle, David Robertson, and Todd Frazier.

 

This is a weird deal for us. We got great value, but I'm not sure why we made this deal. Frazier was effectively a throw in who has been playing much better of late. He's a rental who probably slots in at 1b against righties and 3b against lefties. He does make our lineup deeper for 2017

 

Tommy Kahnle has three years of control after this one. We drafted him and Colorado took him in the Rule V four years ago. He's got big velocity and has immense K numbers. He was looking to be the closer in Chicago when Robertson got dealt.

 

David Robertson has one year of control left and hasn't slowed down. He's been a mid tier closer in Chicago and is having a damn good year.

 

We gave up some good talent, although nothing our big league squad will miss. Rutherford was our 1st rounder last year. He's holding his own in A ball, but as a corner OFer he's shown next to no power. He's been passed in the organization at the same level by Estevan Florial who is also a year younger. The hit tool is plus and he looks to eventually become a high average LFer with a good eye and some speed. I think we sold high on him, especially in a system where we are incredibly deep in the OF.

 

Tito Polo was acquired in the Ivan Nova deal last year. He's a short statured OFer capable of playing CF. He has plus speed and has showed more with the hit tool this year than expected. He made it to AA this year.

 

Ian Clarkin was one of our three first rounders in 2013 (Judge and Jagielo being the others). The lefty has been slowed by injuries but has finally put together a healthy season in high A. He's been very good. He was drafted with the hope of gaining more velocity, but with his injuries, he's effectively become a "crafty lefty" who tops out in the low 90s. While Ian as a lefty with a great curve, he's got big league back of the rotation potential, but he's blocked in this deep system.

 

In terms of value, we got great value for 3 prospects who are blocked in the system. I love the Kahnle reaquisition. DRob gives us another closer option with experience here should Chapman and Betances not get their s*** together. We now have Warren, Chapman, Betances, Green, Kahnle, and Robertson in our pen for this year and next. That's a dominant pen. Frazier has been much better since June 1 and adds depth to our lineup but is effectively a rental

[BstHcpr]

If they make the postseason, that bullpen will be extremely hard to score runs off. They are starting to look like last year's Guardians team, but with a deeper pen.

[OH FOY]

And here's what the Fans don't seem to understand. The Market. If Kahnle, keeps improving, you could flip Chapman, or Kahnle, he has 3 years of Team control, and get haul back in Prospects.

The best value to Trade to get very good Prospects back now is Relievers. You want to build back your Farm, get Relievers. Every year at the July 31st Deadline Teams are giving up huge Talent in the Minors, for 1 Reliever.

Edited July 19, 2017 by OH FOY!

[jacksonianmarch]

Cash shortened the game to 3 innings if he wants to come playoff time. This team is deadly in the pen and if Betances and Chap right their ship, we will be much better due to this deal

[Carpin]

New at this forum, used to post a lot in another RS forum now closed

 

About the topic, Rosenthal suggested the NYY might trade Betances +others as a three team package for a top of the rotation arm like Sonny G. from the A's, sounds interesting, but with Betances struggling right now they would be selling low on him.

 

What do you think?

[jacksonianmarch]

I wouldn't be surprised to be totally honest, but selling low on him is assinine. If I were Cash, I'd roll with what we've got. If Betances is the price for Gray, I'd hold. Betances is a shutdown, lights out reliever. Gray is a former ace in a small body with a history of injuries. If I had to deal Dellin to get an ace level starter, I'd hold out for more

 

 

It sounds like we're going to bring Green, Warren, Holder or Smith to the rotation and see what happens.

[moonslav59]

Todd Frazier has been worse in the second half every single season in his career. That seems like it can not be a fluke.

 

He's off to a bad start, career wise, so one should expect he might have his worst second half of his career this year. I'm glad the Yanks overpaid for him, not us.

 

Frazier's 1st half/2nd half splits:

 

Career: .825/.718

'17 .779/.321 (13 PAs)

'16 .782/.749

'15 .922/.664

'14 .873/.717

'13 .730/.708

'12 .901/.775

'11 n/a/ .733

 

I'm glad he's on the Yanks and not here, especially at that high price.

 

[jacksonianmarch]

You understand that the high price was paid for the relievers and not just for Frazier, right?

[Bellhorn04]

It was definitely a package deal.

[BstHcpr]

You understand that the high price was paid for the relievers and not just for Frazier, right?

 

A lot of people don't seem to realize how good Kahnle is.

[jacksonianmarch]

Or how good Robertson has been. Kahnle is arguably the biggest get in this deal. He's performing better than Betances and his FIP is down in the 1.40 range.

 

When he was coming up, the rave reports on his stuff were there. Sits high 90s in the pen, touches 100. Lights out slider. No command. Hence why he was unprotected a few years back. It took him a few years, but now his walk rate is awesome and his K rate is insane. Add that to a high Gb% and you have a dominant reliever who doesn't give up homers or walks and strikes out people all the time. Plus, he'll be arb eligible for the first time next year

[jacksonianmarch]

It was definitely a package deal.

 

Frazier's cost in this deal was minimal. Rutherford and Clarkin were dealt to get Kahnle and DRob

[OH FOY]

The game has been shortening up since the 100 Pitch count. 7, 8, 9, Innings are the difference in games. 6 innings is about the norm in games for Starters. The good GM's realize Relievers who shorten the game is the future. You need a deep BP for this. Yanks have one now. And they got their worst ones out in Clippard. Edited July 19, 2017 by OH FOY!

[jacksonianmarch]

Well we couldn't get starters so shortening the game is the way to do

[OH FOY]

Starters who hold teams to 4 runs or under for 6, it gets to a BP battle, you get to other teams weaker BP, and yours is strong. Starters wont matter, then. Games will be won in the 7,8,9 innings.

[jacksonianmarch]

Games will be won in the 6-9 as our offense will likely wear down non ace starters, even if they're performing well. I love that this trade isn't just for 2017

[bkzwhitestrican]

Except when our starter gives up 6 and our offense scores 0.

[Spudboy]

How was this trade a "Blockbuster"?

 

Yeah, I see a bunch of players having been moved so in that sense it was significant.

 

But did this trade fundamentally or significantly change the composition of either team?

[jacksonianmarch]

It made our bullpen much longer and gave us an option at CIF who should significantly outplay the production we've received from said location

[Carpin]

Todd Frazier has been worse in the second half every single season in his career. That seems like it can not be a fluke.

 

He's off to a bad start, career wise, so one should expect he might have his worst second half of his career this year. I'm glad the Yanks overpaid for him, not us.

 

Frazier's 1st half/2nd half splits:

 

Career: .825/.718

'17 .779/.321 (13 PAs)

'16 .782/.749

'15 .922/.664

'14 .873/.717

'13 .730/.708

'12 .901/.775

'11 n/a/ .733

 

I'm glad he's on the Yanks and not here, especially at that high price.

 

 

Hey Moon, long time no chat (hope you remember me from BDC)

 

Even with Frazier's history in the second half he is an upgrade from what we currently have, I wouldn't said the Yanks "overpaid", it was a a good trade, too many are focusing on him but the real gain was the BP, if Chapman/Betances can go back to their dominant versions, it will be game over after 5 or 6 innings

[Carpin]

By the way, I hate to see Rutherford go.

 

But we have Florial in the minors, keep an eye on this guy I believe he will be a top 10 prospect in all baseball next year

[moonslav59]

You understand that the high price was paid for the relievers and not just for Frazier, right?

 

Yes, I understand.

 

I could come up with a lot of stuff on why Robertson was the wrong idea, too, but he has at least shown strength in the second half of recent seasons.

 

His K rate, BB rate and WHIP are all better than his career norms this year.

 

Maybe it wasn't as big an "overpay" as I implied, but Robertson & Frazier would have put us over the luxury tax. Maybe they'd have taken Pablo (and cash) like they took on Clippard.

 

I still wanted no part of Frazier.

 

I'd wish you luck, but you know why I can't.

 

[moonslav59]

Hey Moon, long time no chat (hope you remember me from BDC)

 

Even with Frazier's history in the second half he is an upgrade from what we currently have, I wouldn't said the Yanks "overpaid", it was a a good trade, too many are focusing on him but the real gain was the BP, if Chapman/Betances can go back to their dominant versions, it will be game over after 5 or 6 innings

 

Good to see you here, Carpin. I hope you stick around.

 

I shouldn't have called it an overpay, but I'm glad we didn't try to match or better the offer.

[jacksonianmarch]

You didn't even mention Kahnle

[Spudboy]

It made our bullpen much longer and gave us an option at CIF who should significantly outplay the production we've received from said location

 

Okay. Cash added functional parts that should help. I get that. I just believe that that word does not best describe the deal.

[moonslav59]

You didn't even mention Kahnle

 

I'm not sure he's for real.

 

If he can continue as he has done this year, the deal will be much better than I originally thought, but TK had a WHIP over 1.500 for two straight years. Maybe 2017 isn't a fluke, but I wouldn't cringe, if the Yanks bring him in to face Betts in the playoffs.

 

I'm looking through the eyes of a Sox fan, and I think this deal would not have been good for us, IMO.

 

It might end up helping the Yanks a lot, or it could barely make a difference this year but hurt your future.

[jacksonianmarch]

Cash added two high strikeout arms in the pen with closer capability. If Frazier wasn't in this deal, it's still solid value for the prospects we dealt. If Frazier gives us anything, then great

[jacksonianmarch]

I'm not sure he's for real.

 

If he can continue as he has done this year, the deal will be much better than I originally thought, but TK had a WHIP over 1.500 for two straight years. Maybe 2017 isn't a fluke, but I wouldn't cringe, if the Yanks bring him in to face Betts in the playoffs.

 

I'm looking through the eyes of a Sox fan, and I think this deal would not have been good for us, IMO.

 

It might end up helping the Yanks a lot, or it could barely make a difference this year but hurt your future.

 

His problems have always been the walks. He's avoided those this year. He's 27 with closer stuff. Yeah, maybe he loses his command, but he doesn't get hit at all. He's for real, the question is, is he 1.40 FIP good. Not sure, but he's been one of the best relievers in baseball this year. We got him and a solid closer who is still in his prime and under contract for next year. Frazier could be released and this is great value. We dealt from far down the chain of our prospect list to make this deal. This barely dents our farm

[moonslav59]

His problems have always been the walks. He's avoided those this year. He's 27 with closer stuff. Yeah, maybe he loses his command, but he doesn't get hit at all. He's for real, the question is, is he 1.40 FIP good. Not sure, but he's been one of the best relievers in baseball this year. We got him and a solid closer who is still in his prime and under contract for next year. Frazier could be released and this is great value. We dealt from far down the chain of our prospect list to make this deal. This barely dents our farm

 

The fit was better for you guys. Robertson's salary would crunch us too much this year and maybe next.

 

I would have liked to have gotten 2 good RP'ers though. We still might.

[a700hitter]

Screw them. They are a couple of years away. They will win this division if we give it to them.