8/28 vs Royals

[mvp 78]

And Barnes was looking good at the time.

 

He's the veritable box of chocolates.

 

HOW'S THAT FOR A TIMELY REFERENCE!

[Bellhorn04]

He's the veritable box of chocolates.

 

HOW'S THAT FOR A TIMELY REFERENCE!

 

He's just another squealer in our pigpen.

[Maxbialystock]

Farrell has a long reliever, Buchholz. He's pitched well. This was a situation for him. Buch actually NEVER has pitch long relief this year.

 

It is rare that a long reliever goes in for the 6th inning, and in this case Buchholz did pitch the night before. Also, Buchholz pitched 3 innings of long relief at the Angels on July 31 and was given the win for his efforts.

 

Let's not forget that, when ERod went out for the 6th, he had thrown less than 70 pitches and held the Royals to 2 runs. I think he gave up 2 walks and a double to load the bases and then got his first out, a short fly to LF. At that point--when Barnes went in--the Royals had scored no runs. Barnes actually did his job with the first Royals hitter he faced, who hit a comebacker right to Barnes. Unfortunately it was a high Baltimore chop that allowed the runner to score from 3B and the hitter to get to 1B safely even though Barnes fielded it cleanly. Then the first pitch triple on a 98 mpg fastball right down the middle that the .128 Royals hitter hammered over JBJ's head. Score was now 6-4 KC so Sox still in it. Then another lucky Royals hit on the dribbler that Barnes also fielded cleanly but could not prevent the score from 3B and the hitter getting to 1B. Then a hit batsman, I think. Finally Ross come in to ensure that those two new Barnes baserunners scored to make it 10-4 KC.

 

Barnes and Ross may not be closers, but should have been able to get two outs in the 6th without letting 8 runs score. You want to blame the manager, but I blame those two and, in Barnes's case, on bad luck on the two short grounders that turned into singles. Plus there can be absolutely no question that ERod should have gone out to pitch the 6th.

[Maxbialystock]

Don't forget the manager. Yost pull Ventura when he look like s***. Farrell let Rodriguez load the bases.

 

Yost actually has a bullpen. Farrell doesn't.

[Kimmi]

Farrell has a long reliever, Buchholz. He's pitched well. This was a situation for him. Buch actually NEVER has pitch long relief this year.

 

I read somewhere that Farrell doesn't like to bring Buchholz into the game with runners on base? Because Buch is used to starting, Farrell likes him to start an inning clean.

[Kimmi]

It's just one game.

 

Yesterday, we looked like a WS team.

 

Every AL team has serious weaknesses.

 

Voice of reason.

[Maxbialystock]

Back to Barnes--one further thought. He came in with one man out, the Sox up 4-2, the bases loaded, and the hope he could induce a GIDP to get the Sox out of the inning. He actually came really close with that comebacker, except that it bounced so high it was unplayable in terms of getting an out. He had to be frustrated. Then he throws his patented 98 mph fastball to a guy hitting .128 who promptly nails it deep to CF for a triple that drives in 3 more runs, putting the Royals up by 2, followed by another comebacker which is so soft it too turns out to be unplayable even though Barnes made a good effort to go home with it.

 

We think of that 6th inning as kind of a deluge, but to Barnes it was--I'm guessing here--mostly bad luck. He might even argue he did his job by inducing the comebacker for the possible, even likely GIDP but which turned out to be a clean single, a run in. and the bases still loaded. Then he does the right thing to the .128 hitter by throwing a very hard strike, which turns into a disaster.

 

I'm not defending Barnes so much as saying baseball has quirks and can be tough on hitters and pitchers alike. Like when Benintendi makes that spectacular grab over the wall which could have injured him, but did not. Then the very next night he makes a little baserunning error which leads to trying to avoid a tag which leads to a knee injury (the replay looked to me like an ankle injury) which might have him out for the season even though the MRI's, etc say no real damage.

 

Maybe quirky isn't the right word for baseball. Maybe the right word is hard.

[a700hitter]

Back to Barnes--one further thought. He came in with one man out, the Sox up 4-2, the bases loaded, and the hope he could induce a GIDP to get the Sox out of the inning. He actually came really close with that comebacker, except that it bounced so high it was unplayable in terms of getting an out. He had to be frustrated. Then he throws his patented 98 mph fastball to a guy hitting .128 who promptly nails it deep to CF for a triple that drives in 3 more runs, putting the Royals up by 2, followed by another comebacker which is so soft it too turns out to be unplayable even though Barnes made a good effort to go home with it.

 

We think of that 6th inning as kind of a deluge, but to Barnes it was--I'm guessing here--mostly bad luck. He might even argue he did his job by inducing the comebacker for the possible, even likely GIDP but which turned out to be a clean single, a run in. and the bases still loaded. Then he does the right thing to the .128 hitter by throwing a very hard strike, which turns into a disaster.

 

I'm not defending Barnes so much as saying baseball has quirks and can be tough on hitters and pitchers alike. Like when Benintendi makes that spectacular grab over the wall which could have injured him, but did not. Then the very next night he makes a little baserunning error which leads to trying to avoid a tag which leads to a knee injury (the replay looked to me like an ankle injury) which might have him out for the season even though the MRI's, etc say no real damage.

 

Maybe quirky isn't the right word for baseball. Maybe the right word is hard.

Maybe the right word for Barnes is stinks. Barnes is more middle inning fodder than a late inning high leverage guy.

[mvp 78]

Maybe the right word for Barnes is stinks. Barnes is more middle inning fodder than a late inning high leverage guy.

 

Nope. Baseball boils down to quirks and luck. Talent and good coaching does not matter or have much of an effect.

[Bellhorn04]

Nope. Baseball boils down to quirks and luck. Talent and good coaching does not matter or have much of an effect.

 

All the things you mentioned play their part.

[Maxbialystock]

Maybe the right word for Barnes is stinks. Barnes is more middle inning fodder than a late inning high leverage guy.

 

At the point Barnes entered the game, the Sox had pitched 5 innings and still needed 4 innings and 12 outs. I think the 6th is more middle inning than late.

 

When you say, "middle inning fodder," you essentially mean not worth much, and the problem with that idea is that too many in the current bullpen could be included--Tazawa, Barnes, Ross, Abad, and maybe even Buchholz who is probably a better starter than reliever. That leaves just Kimbrel and Ziegler who are reliable or semi-reliable.

 

Let's not forget that most on this board, probably including you, also believe Farrell stays with his starters too long.

 

So, when you add all those things up--limit the starters, use the bullpen early and often, just two reliable (maybe three) relievers--you have a problem. Nevertheless, it is usually Farrell who is blamed when the pitching--some combination of starters and relievers--gives up too many runs.

 

I on the other hand see managing this team's pitchers as akin to a high wire act, trying to find the right balance between what is available and what is needed.

[mvp 78]

All the things you mentioned play their part.

 

No, just quirks and luck. Talent and good coaching does not matter anymore.

 

Is the game quirky? You betcha! Is luck involved? Of course, you'd be a fool to state otherwise.

 

Talent and coaching are overstated. It doesn't matter if the manager makes the wrong call because they players should be able to overcome it. It doesn't matter if one team has more talent because the managers should be able to make the proper call to make up for the talent gap. If that call is wrong, well the players should be able to overcome it anyway.

[a700hitter]

At the point Barnes entered the game, the Sox had pitched 5 innings and still needed 4 innings and 12 outs. I think the 6th is more middle inning than late.

 

When you say, "middle inning fodder," you essentially mean not worth much, and the problem with that idea is that too many in the current bullpen could be included--Tazawa, Barnes, Ross, Abad, and maybe even Buchholz who is probably a better starter than reliever. That leaves just Kimbrel and Ziegler who are reliable or semi-reliable.

 

Let's not forget that most on this board, probably including you, also believe Farrell stays with his starters too long.

 

So, when you add all those things up--limit the starters, use the bullpen early and often, just two reliable (maybe three) relievers--you have a problem. Nevertheless, it is usually Farrell who is blamed when the pitching--some combination of starters and relievers--gives up too many runs.

 

I on the other hand see managing this team's pitchers as akin to a high wire act, trying to find the right balance between what is available and what is needed.

Yes, I do consider Ziegler and Kimbrel as our only reliable bullpen options, and my biggest problems with Farrell have centered around situations where he has waited too long to use Ziegler and Kimbrel. Farrrell is an idiot. Remember that when you watch the games, and don't be surprised when he trips while he chews gum.

[mvp 78]

Yes, I do consider Ziegler and Kimbrel as our only reliable bullpen options, and my biggest problems with Farrell have centered around situations where he has waited too long to use Ziegler and Kimbrel. Farrrell is an idiot. Remember that when you watch the games, and don't be surprised when he trips while he chews gum.

 

The players should be able to catch him before he falls on his ass.

[Maxbialystock]

Yes, I do consider Ziegler and Kimbrel as our only reliable bullpen options, and my biggest problems with Farrell have centered around situations where he has waited too long to use Ziegler and Kimbrel. Farrrell is an idiot. Remember that when you watch the games, and don't be surprised when he trips while he chews gum.

 

As I tried to explain, if you want to get your starters out early, let's say, after 6 innings, and you only have 2 reliable relievers, you can't get there from here. Heck, I think you complained when ERod went out for the 6th the night before last. Did you intend for Ziegler and Kimbrel to cover the final four innings? And how often would you expect to use just those two and no one else to ensure a win? My point is that the choices available to Farrell aren't as easy as you make them out to be.

 

This situation contrasts perfectly with the 2013 playoffs when the Sox pitching staff ERA was 2.00 and the bullpen was pretty much lights out, giving up, I think, 2 runs in 16 innings of work. In the playoffs, knowing you will only play so many games and, more importantly, you will have plenty of off days, you don't need a deep bullpen. Right now the Sox are finishing up 23 games in 23 days, and you seem to be unaware of that.

[a700hitter]

As I tried to explain, if you want to get your starters out early, let's say, after 6 innings, and you only have 2 reliable relievers, you can't get there from here. Heck, I think you complained when ERod went out for the 6th the night before last. Did you intend for Ziegler and Kimbrel to cover the final four innings? And how often would you expect to use just those two and no one else to ensure a win? My point is that the choices available to Farrell aren't as easy as you make them out to be.

 

This situation contrasts perfectly with the 2013 playoffs when the Sox pitching staff ERA was 2.00 and the bullpen was pretty much lights out, giving up, I think, 2 runs in 16 innings of work. In the playoffs, knowing you will only play so many games and, more importantly, you will have plenty of off days, you don't need a deep bullpen. Right now the Sox are finishing up 23 games in 23 days, and you seem to be unaware of that.

i didn't complain when ERod went out for the 6th inning. Again, you never get the facts right. I do think Farrell left him too long as he was clearly imploding. When the starter is clearly imploding prior to the 7th inning, the manager doesn't have a lot of good choices, but he can't leave the imploding starter out there to blow up the game. He has to go to his box of chocolates in the bullpen and hope that he can get a good inning or 2 before going to Ziegler and Kimbrel.

[Slasher9]

we havent seen the BP give us a "good inning or two" in some time. i guess that's farrell's fault too. do you expect ziegler warming up during the bottom of the 5th while the sox are up just in case erod (or whatever starter) gives up 3 quick hits in the top of the 6th and so called "imploding"? how many times do you think ziegler (or any reliever you want to insert) can get up and down in a game? in a week? in a month? in a season? how many times when you switch from "Farrell left the starter in too long" to "Farrell overuses the bullpen"?

[Slasher9]

how fast do some of you think a Relief Pitcher can warm up? seems like you think it takes 3 or 4 throws.....or maybe some of you think that a Relief Pitcher can warm up 3 or 4 times a game before actually being called upon and then be effective.

[Slasher9]

Pedroia has been our best hitter lately and missed the past 2 games. i blame John Farrell for killing Pedroia's father-in-law.

[Slasher9]

why isn't Farrell having Ziegler warm up right now just in case big d!ck pom pom has a rough first inning and gives up 3 quick singles??? surely ziegler can get 24 outs and get us to kimbrell.....

[a700hitter]

Pedroia has been our best hitter lately and missed the past 2 games. i blame John Farrell for killing Pedroia's father-in-law.

He should go to jail. He can't manage from there.

[mvp 78]

He should go to jail. He can't manage from there.

 

He's white so he'd probably be out by the playoffs anyway.

[mvp 78]

how fast do some of you think a Relief Pitcher can warm up? seems like you think it takes 3 or 4 throws.....or maybe some of you think that a Relief Pitcher can warm up 3 or 4 times a game before actually being called upon and then be effective.

 

It's the player's fault they can't warm up faster, honestly.

[Slasher9]

based on the posts i have seen over the coarse of this season they were honest questions. of course answering them honestly might ruin some narratives....

[SoxnCycles]

based on the posts i have seen over the coarse of this season they were honest questions. of course answering them honestly might ruin some narratives....

 

Nope, can't have that!

 

Honestly, Farrell makes enough dumb moves.

I don't get why some fans feel the need to make up more.

[a700hitter]

Nope, can't have that!

 

Honestly, Farrell makes enough dumb moves.

I don't get why some fans feel the need to make up more.

I only point out the really obvious ones. I don't have time to give him a performance review every game.

 

Edit: And I almost always point out his mistakes in real time, so claims of hindsight are not valid.

[mvp 78]

based on the posts i have seen over the coarse of this season they were honest questions. of course answering them honestly might ruin some narratives....

 

Says the David Price guy...

[mvp 78]

I only point out the really obvious ones. I don't have time to give him a performance review every game.

 

Edit: And I almost always point out his mistakes in real time, so claims of hindsight are not valid.

 

You complained after the fact so the complaints are invalid because of rules...

[a700hitter]

Says the David Price guy...

Price does make $30 million/year, so he left himself open.

[mvp 78]

Price does make $30 million/year, so he left himself open.

 

https://twitter.com/DAVIDprice24/status/770304667020656642