6/7 @ The San Francisco Baseball Giants

[a700hitter]

It included Rubby DelaRosa aka Pedro Jr.

He stinks. Ask Fred.

[mvp 78]

He stinks. Ask Fred.

 

He's been ok this year.

[a700hitter]

He's been ok this year.

He had a good stretch or 2 last year too. Then he would blow up-- right around the time I would pick him up for my fantasy team.

[iortiz]

You not see any CC Sabathia starts last year?

 

A Sober CC pitches way better than Porcello.

[iortiz]

iortiz will never let facts get in the way of a good argument.

Which facts? What good argument?

 

There's no way that Porcello was/has been/is better than Shields.

[VA Sox Fan]

He stinks. Ask Fred.

 

Puke, vomit....etc etc......

[mvp 78]

Which facts? What good argument?

 

There's no way that Porcello was/has been/is better than Shields.

 

How is Shields pitching today?

 

Shields had pitched worse against the NL West than Porcello against the AL East.

[VA Sox Fan]

He stinks. Ask Fred.

 

Yeah. Ask the internet bully. Why bring that name up? Why?

[iortiz]

How is Shields pitching today?

 

Shields had pitched worse against the NL West than Porcello against the AL East.

 

LOL! James Shields is the least of my concerns. He will never wear the Red Sox uniform. It came up because U? brought him to the table. Also, I think that most of us wanted him for a reasonable price, included your boy U?.

 

On the other hand, who worries me is Rick Porcello, he is going to be around here for a while.

[a700hitter]

How is Shields pitching today?

 

Shields had pitched worse against the NL West than Porcello against the AL East.

As bad as Shields has been this season, he has been about the same as Porcello, but with less long balls.

[mvp 78]

As bad as Shields has been this season, he has been about the same as Porcello, but with less long balls.

 

No. Shields' ERA is worse. Shields' WHIP is way worse.

[iortiz]

No. Shields' ERA is worse. Shields' WHIP is way worse.

 

The argument behind the discussion was that he was pitching really good and way better than Porcello before his last start against SEA. He was at that moment a 3.0 ERA pitcher.

 

On the other hand do you really want to keep beating this dead horse? James Shields is not available anymore. We need another pitcher. I was suggesting a guy like Zimmermann or Teheran.

[mvp 78]

Dead horse? You were talking about it, not me.

[iortiz]

As I said, while I was talking about Porcello -- who is in our team-- somehow U? brought him. Go figure.

[a700hitter]

No. Shields' ERA is worse. Shields' WHIP is way worse.

For as bad as people are saying that Shields has been, his performance has been pretty much in line with Porcello who has been drawing rave reviews. The difference is not as big as you are making it out to be.

[a700hitter]

If Porcello and Shields regress to their norms as the stat people like to say, Shields should have the better numbers this season.

[User Name]

If Porcello and Shields regress to their norms as the stat people like to say, Shields should have the better numbers this season.

 

You're certainly ignoring the age factor here. Again, father time catches up with everyone.

[User Name]

How is Shields pitching today?

 

Shields had pitched worse against the NL West than Porcello against the AL East.

 

Those are facts. Not reinventing the wheel here.

[User Name]

For as bad as people are saying that Shields has been, his performance has been pretty much in line with Porcello who has been drawing rave reviews. The difference is not as big as you are making it out to be.

 

What? Even before tonight, he had a worse ERA, WHIP and had given up more homers while pitching in a terrible stadium for hitters. That's a ridiculous argument.

[iortiz]

What? Even before tonight, he had a worse ERA, WHIP and had given up more homers while pitching in a terrible stadium for hitters. That's a ridiculous argument.

 

If he was worse than Porcello why did you want him in Red Sox uniform?

 

Also, the point was that he was way better before his start against SEA.

 

As always you don't like to see the facts.

[a700hitter]

What? Even before tonight, he had a worse ERA, WHIP and had given up more homers while pitching in a terrible stadium for hitters. That's a ridiculous argument.

4.28 ERA to 4.04 ERA-- we are not talking about different tier pitchers. LOL!! I didn't say that Porcello hasn't done better to this point, but you are the one being ridiculous if you think Porcello is at a different level. They have 60-70 inning under their belt -- regression to their norms will take care of any superior results that Porcello is currently enjoying.

[User Name]

4.28 ERA to 4.04 ERA-- we are not talking about different tier pitchers. LOL!! I didn't say that Porcello hasn't done better to this point, but you are the one being ridiculous if you think Porcello is at a different level. They have 60-70 inning under their belt -- regression to their norms will take care of any superior results that Porcello is currently enjoying.

 

The problem is that you're just not accounting for the difference in age and pitching environment. Petco ain't Fenway, and 34 ain't 27, especially on an arm with as much mileage as Shields'

 

This is where stats help: ERA+ normalizes for factors like stadium, Porcello has a 109 ERA+, while Shields has a 90 ERA+ (does not include tonight's outing). In other words, Shields has been 10% worse than league average, while Porcello has been 9% better. There's just no argument.

[a700hitter]

The problem is that you're just not accounting for the difference in age and pitching environment. Petco ain't Fenway, and 34 ain't 27, especially on an arm with as much mileage as Shields'

 

This is where stats help: ERA+ normalizes for factors like stadium, Porcello has a 109 ERA+, while Shields has a 90 ERA+ (does not include tonight's outing). In other words, Shields has been 10% worse than league average, while Porcello has been 9% better. There's just no argument.

Shields might be hitting the end of the road. He is up there in age. He should hit the end of the road before Porcello. That being said, until fairly recently Shield has been the better pitcher. Comerica Park is a pretty pitcher friendly environment, and Shields pitched a lot of years in Tampa which wasn't kind to pitchers. Shields trajectory may be pointing sharply down at this point. We will see, because his new ballpark is a bit of a launching pad. Up till now, I would still pick Shields to hand the ball or Porcello. Just my opinion.

[a700hitter]

The problem is that you're just not accounting for the difference in age and pitching environment. Petco ain't Fenway, and 34 ain't 27, especially on an arm with as much mileage as Shields'

 

This is where stats help: ERA+ normalizes for factors like stadium, Porcello has a 109 ERA+, while Shields has a 90 ERA+ (does not include tonight's outing). In other words, Shields has been 10% worse than league average, while Porcello has been 9% better. There's just no argument.

I think that you are missing my point. I am not arguing that Shields has been pitching better than Porcello at this point of the season. My point is that Porcello is getting a lot of positive reviews of his performance and Shield has been doing poorly and getting criticism for it, but the difference is just not that big. Unless father time is claiming Shields, regression should reverse any numerical advantage that Porcello is enjoying.

 

IMO, they are both crap so far this season.

[iortiz]

As I said, It is fair to say that most of us think/thought that Shields is/was better than Porcello --included U?--, otherwise why would we want him if he is/was worse? It simply doesn't make sense to land Shields if he is/was worse than Porcello.

 

Of course, Shields is a bet. He is getting older but his last 3 years and his starts before SEA suggested the he could be a safe bet.

 

On the other hand, after his start vs SEA and tonight against WSN, can we say that he is already done? or these two starts were just bad days? IDK but honestly I do not care because he is not an option for our team.

Edited June 9, 2016 by iortiz

[Palodios]

Why not both?