Christian Vazquez

[harmony]

Swihart had 6 PAs in 2011 but never caught an inning. Hes' essentially played in 5 professional seasons (2012 to 2016). He only caught in 4 seasons before 2016.

 

His first "real" season saw him catch only 546 innings: his last season only 182. Swihart has 3275 total innings behind the plate (minors + Majors).

 

Zunino broke into professional baseball the same year as Swihart (2012). He has 4,146 innings behind the plate in his 5 professional seasons combined (minors+ majors). That's about 25% more than Swi.

Good catch on Blake Swihart's brief non-catching debut in 2011.

 

In 2012 Swihart played 93 games, including 66 as a catcher, at Single A Greenville while Zunino played 44 games, including 31 as a catcher, between Low A Everett and Double A Jackson (skipping Single A Clinton and High A High Desert), posting a combined .360/.447/.689/1.137 line in 190 plate appearances. Of course, Swihart is one year younger than Zunino.

[Fisk]

Good catch on Blake Swihart's brief non-catching debut in 2011.

 

In 2012 Swihart played 93 games, including 66 as a catcher, at Single A Greenville while Zunino played 44 games, including 31 as a catcher, between Low A Everett and Double A Jackson (skipping Single A Clinton and High A High Desert), posting a combined .360/.447/.689/1.137 line in 190 plate appearances. Of course, Swihart is one year younger than Zunino.

zunino is not going to have a better career then Swihart you you probably would not get one expert to say that. But you can continue enjoying his 40% strikeout rate and if having a good year his 200 average.

[harmony]

zunino is not going to have a better career then Swihart you you probably would not get one expert to say that. But you can continue enjoying his 40% strikeout rate and if having a good year his 200 average.

Will do.

 

I have yet to find 2017 WAR projections that place Blake Swihart ahead of Mike Zunino*.

 

Perhaps someone can help me.

 

I hope Blake Swihart has a long productive MLB career despite my reservations.

 

* despite Zunino's unembellished projected strikeout rate of 29-32 percent and projected batting average of around .221

Edited February 9, 2017 by harmony

[Fisk]

Will do.

 

I have yet to find 2017 WAR projections that place Blake Swihart ahead of Mike Zunino (despite Zunino's unembellished projected strikeout rate of 29-32 percent and projected batting average of around .221).

 

Perhaps someone can help me.

It's projected not what he had done, again his sample size is large enogh with that 40 % strikeout rate and 195 career average enjoy him. As a Mariner fan you have every right to be excited about Zunino, I just find it a little odd that you would come on a redsox site and in almost every post knock on a sox player.

[harmony]

It's projected not what he had done, again his sample size is large enogh with that 40 % strikeout rate and 195 career average enjoy him. As a Mariner fan you have every right to be excited about Zunino, I just find it a little odd that you would come on a redsox site and in almost every post knock on a sox player.

Where is the 40 percent strikeout rate?

 

No need to embellish Mike Zunino's high strikeout rate ... I would never embellish the stats of a Red Sox player or any other player.

[Fisk]

Where is the 40 percent strikeout rate?

 

No need to embellish Mike Zunino's high strikeout rate.

 

It's probably 37%

[moonslav59]

Good catch on Blake Swihart's brief non-catching debut in 2011.

 

In 2012 Swihart played 93 games, including 66 as a catcher, at Single A Greenville while Zunino played 44 games, including 31 as a catcher, between Low A Everett and Double A Jackson (skipping Single A Clinton and High A High Desert), posting a combined .360/.447/.689/1.137 line in 190 plate appearances. Of course, Swihart is one year younger than Zunino.

 

One year younger and about 1,000 innings less catching at the professional level.

 

I don't know Zunino's amateur record, but my guess is he had more than 1 or two years catching in HS.

[moonslav59]

Will do.

 

I have yet to find 2017 WAR projections that place Blake Swihart ahead of Mike Zunino*.

 

Perhaps someone can help me.

 

I hope Blake Swihart has a long productive MLB career despite my reservations.

 

* despite Zunino's unembellished projected strikeout rate of 29-32 percent and projected batting average of around .221

 

A lot of these projections strongly rely on last year's numbers.

 

Also, projections for 2017 might have little to do with long term projections. Zunino is a year older and has 25% more professional experience catching than Swihart. That's reason enough to expect a slightly better 2017 season than Swihart.

 

Yes, scouts can be wrong. They've been more wrong with catchers than probably any other non-pitching position, but I do think most scouts would pick Swi over Zun despite 2017 projections..

[moonslav59]

It's probably 37%

 

It's 32.4% in MLB.

 

He had 176 Ks in 789 PAs/ 685 ABs on the farm.

[harmony]

A lot of these projections strongly rely on last year's numbers.

 

Also, projections for 2017 might have little to do with long term projections. Zunino is a year older and has 25% more professional experience catching than Swihart. That's reason enough to expect a slightly better 2017 season than Swihart.

 

Yes, scouts can be wrong. They've been more wrong with catchers than probably any other non-pitching position, but I do think most scouts would pick Swi over Zun despite 2017 projections..

I wonder whether the projections attempt to quantify a catcher's ability to handle a pitching staff.

 

Despite his sub-.200 batting average, Seattle kept trotting Mike Zunino out to catch in 2014 and 2015 because of the high scores Zunino receives from the pitching staff. Blake Swihart, on the other hand, lost his starting gig after six games last year because, according to some, of his questionable ability to handle the Red Sox staff.

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/clubhouse_insider/2017/01/red_sox_mailbag_can_blake_swihart_win_the_starting_catching

 

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/mariners/mariners-2017-spring-position-preview-is-this-the-year-that-mike-zunino-can-put-it-all-together/

 

On a Mariner team that finished second to the Red Sox in wRC+ last year, the ability to handle a pitching staff might be more important than hitting potential. Still, it was an eye-opener to read that ZiPS projects 2017 OPS+ of 95 for Zunino and only 80 for Swihart. The projections probably consider minor league numbers as well as last year's MLB statistics.

 

I hope Mike Zunino and Blake Swihart have successful years ... and careers.

 

http://m.redsox.mlb.com/news/article/215367144/blake-swihart-aims-to-climb-boston-depth-chart/

 

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/mlb/seattle-mariners/mariners-insider-blog/article131475344.html

Edited February 9, 2017 by harmony

[moonslav59]

I wonder whether the projections attempt to quantify a catcher's ability to handle a pitching staff.

 

WAR does not, so WAR projections must not as well.

[harmony]

WAR does not, so WAR projections must not as well.

Perhaps the defensive metrics help explain the contrasting projections for Mike Zunino and Blake Swihart.

[S5Dewey]

It's projected not what he had done, again his sample size is large enogh with that 40 % strikeout rate and 195 career average enjoy him. As a Mariner fan you have every right to be excited about Zunino, I just find it a little odd that you would come on a redsox site and in almost every post knock on a sox player.

 

This. I stopped reading Harmony's posts some time ago. IMO his points would be better made if he didn't try to take every opportunity to "prove" that the Red Sox players are inferior to the Mariners players. Is there no one else in professional baseball that Mariners players can be compared with?

[harmony]

This. I stopped reading Harmony's posts some time ago. IMO his points would be better made if he didn't try to take every opportunity to "prove" that the Red Sox players are inferior to the Mariners players. Is there no one else in professional baseball that Mariners players can be compared with?

I joined this thread's discussion of Blake Swihart's role with a comparison to Jarrod Saltalamacchia, who never played for the Mariners.

 

I brought Mike Zunino into the discussion on a positive note to compare Zunino's age 25 season (split last year between Triple A and MLB) with Swihart's upcoming age 25 season (likely to be split between Triple A and MLB).

 

Peace be with you.

 

And I'm off to see the Celtics play tonight.

Edited February 10, 2017 by harmony

[moonslav59]

Perhaps the defensive metrics help explain the contrasting projections for Mike Zunino and Blake Swihart.

 

I'm sure that's a big reason 2017 projections have Z > S.

[harmony]

I'm sure that's a big reason 2017 projections have Z > S.

Beyond the Box Score at SB Nation offered more on Mike Zunino:

 

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2017/2/10/14558114/mike-zunino-mariners-catcher-breakout-plate-discipline

[southpaw777]

Here my season prediction...

Vaz starts the year as "The Man" behind the plate. Hes now back to 100% and I say he will seperate himself in ST from Leon, who will be backup and Swi in AAA. Barring any injuries, this is what i see.

I dont think there was a "punishment" in any way to Vaz. I thought it may have been, but I believe it was that he needed to get back to where he was before TJS and AAA was the best place for that. I remember the Baltimore catcher having some issues the following year to build the arm back up, so its no surprise that Vaz had the same issues. Im betting his bat will be better as well.

[S5Dewey]

Here my season prediction...

Vaz starts the year as "The Man" behind the plate. Hes now back to 100% and I say he will seperate himself in ST from Leon, who will be backup and Swi in AAA. Barring any injuries, this is what i see.

I dont think there was a "punishment" in any way to Vaz. I thought it may have been, but I believe it was that he needed to get back to where he was before TJS and AAA was the best place for that. I remember the Baltimore catcher having some issues the following year to build the arm back up, so its no surprise that Vaz had the same issues. Im betting his bat will be better as well.

 

I almost agree with you. My prediction is that the season will start as Leon being our #1 behind the dish and Vaz as our #2. It will become evident sometime before June 1 that Leon is what he was offensively - a ~.200 hitter - and then be crowded out of the #1 spot by Vaz. Then by July 4th we'll be in a tizzy about who our backup catcher is - Leon or Swihart.

[southpaw777]

I almost agree with you. My prediction is that the season will start as Leon being our #1 behind the dish and Vaz as our #2. It will become evident sometime before June 1 that Leon is what he was offensively - a ~.200 hitter - and then be crowded out of the #1 spot by Vaz. Then by July 4th we'll be in a tizzy about who our backup catcher is - Leon or Swihart.

 

My guess is if Vaz has or wins the starting job, it will be his to lose based on performance. If hes hitting say 250 with a decent obp for a catcher of 320-30. We know hes not a slugger but he makes good contact, gets on base and takes walks. If hes doing this with a cs%north of 50% then even if Swi is hitting good I dnt think that alone will beat Vaz out. Now if Swi takes huge steps forward this year with his game calling and overall defensive side of the game, then we will have a battle.

So basically its the same issue we had before Vaz had the TJS. We need to see more of Vaz' bat and we need to see better D overall out of Swi. Depending on how each one performs will dictate what the Sox do.

[moonslav59]

It's so hard to project our catcher situation on opening day. Even with the problems with Leon and Vaz being out of options, I still think, if they are cold in ST'ing and Swihart is tearing up the place, Swi could be our opening day catcher- not likely, but possible.

 

As it stand right now, I see it like this:

 

1) Leon (60% starts)

2) Vaz (40% starts)

3) Swi (AAA)

 

I do think Vaz could pass Leon and win the 60% job.

 

I wonder, if we will go with the personal caddy way of deciding how often a catcher catches.

 

Whoever gets to catch Chris sale could get the 60%, instead of 40% starts role....

 

with Leon--

 

Porcello:

Leon 2.52 in 107 IP

Vaz 3.64 in 94 IP

 

Price

Leon 3.23 in 109 IP

Vaz 4.62 in 97 IP

 

 

with Vaz--

 

ERod

Vaz 4.50 in 22 IP

Leon 4.90 in 79 IP

 

Wright

Vaz 2.72 in 36 IP

Leon 6.46 in 24 IP

 

Pomeranz

Vaz n/a

Leon 5.85 in 20 IP

Holaday 3.32 in 41 IP

 

 

[Kimmi]

Here my season prediction...

Vaz starts the year as "The Man" behind the plate. Hes now back to 100% and I say he will seperate himself in ST from Leon, who will be backup and Swi in AAA. Barring any injuries, this is what i see.

I dont think there was a "punishment" in any way to Vaz. I thought it may have been, but I believe it was that he needed to get back to where he was before TJS and AAA was the best place for that. I remember the Baltimore catcher having some issues the following year to build the arm back up, so its no surprise that Vaz had the same issues. Im betting his bat will be better as well.

 

I don't think Vaz will win the job of starting catcher out of spring training, but my money is on him eventually being the #1 guy behind the plate.

 

Like you, I think that his development took a step backward due to his injury. Now that he's healthy, I think he will be very good, mostly because of his excellent defense.

[Fisk]

I don't think Vaz will win the job of starting catcher out of spring training, but my money is on him eventually being the #1 guy behind the plate.

 

Like you, I think that his development took a step backward due to his injury. Now that he's healthy, I think he will be very good, mostly because of his excellent defense.

 

I would like to see Vaz hit better, great defense but anemic with the bat last year.

[cp176]

I would like to see Vaz hit better, great defense but anemic with the bat last year.

 

If he outhits Leon, he will get the job. If he doesn't outhit him this spring, and still gets the job, then good for him. It will mean that he has become an elite catcher. At the present time, he is on just about the same level as Leon behind the plate.

He is going to have to win the job and if he doesn't outhit him, I don't think he gets the everyday job.

[moonslav59]

If he outhits Leon, he will get the job. If he doesn't outhit him this spring, and still gets the job, then good for him. It will mean that he has become an elite catcher. At the present time, he is on just about the same level as Leon behind the plate.

He is going to have to win the job and if he doesn't outhit him, I don't think he gets the everyday job.

 

Agreed.

 

It might not be hard to outhit Leon, if Sandy reverts to near his "old self".

 

If he pulls even, we could see one traded to allow Swi to come up. Vaz probably would have more trade value at that point (assuming he hits over .650).

[harmony]

Fair enough that the team is not going advertise any doubts they have about Swihart.

 

That said, I don't remember what specific 'noises' were made about Saltalamacchia, but I believe his defense was always in question. That's not the case with Swihart's defense. Swihart was projected to be an above average defensive catcher. The only knocks against him so far is that he doesn't measure up to Vazquez' reputation of being elite defensively and that he hasn't been given the time and opportunity to develop behind the plate.

Blake Swihart and Jarrod Saltalamacchia may share another characteristic:

 

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2017/02/17/notebook-red-sox-catcher-blake-swihart-thrown-for-loop/3KTX6JMAsd2TuvIOZKUEjJ/story.html

 

http://deadspin.com/5539083/jarrod-saltalamacchia-has-a-strange-case-of-the-yips

 

... or not.

[Fisk]

Blake Swihart and Jarrod Saltalamacchia may share another characteristic:

 

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2017/02/17/notebook-red-sox-catcher-blake-swihart-thrown-for-loop/3KTX6JMAsd2TuvIOZKUEjJ/story.html

 

http://deadspin.com/5539083/jarrod-saltalamacchia-has-a-strange-case-of-the-yips

 

... or not.

 

Might be the most annoying poster. Enjoy Zunino

[harmony]

Might be the most annoying poster. Enjoy Zunino

FanGraphs Depth Chart, Steamer and ZiPS suggest that I will:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=13265&position=C

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2017-zips-projections-seattle-mariners/

 

... as Mike Zunino and Blake Swihart likely regress from their 2016 BABIP of .250 and .348, respectively.

 

Swihart could take as a compliment a comp to Jarrod Saltalamacchia, who is entering his 11th MLB season.

 

Saltalamacchia was 18 years, one month, old when he was taken with the 36th pick of the 2003 draft while Swihart was 19 years, two months, old when he was taken with the 26th pick of the 2011 draft. The switch-hitting catchers peaked at No. 17 (Swihart) and No. 18 (Saltalamacchia) in Baseball America preseason prospect rankings.

Edited February 18, 2017 by harmony

[Fisk]

FanGraphs Depth Chart, Steamer and ZiPS suggest that I will:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=13265&position=C

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2017-zips-projections-seattle-mariners/

 

... as Mike Zunino and Blake Swihart likely regress from their 2016 BABIP of .250 and .348, respectively.

If you enjoy 200 hitters who strike out a third of the time good for you.

[a700hitter]

It looks like Swihart might have Mackey Sasser Disease:

 

• Spring Training is off to a rocky start for Red Sox catcher Blake Swihart, as Evan Drellich of the Boston Herald reports. Though it’s obviously still early, Swihart has struggled badly with getting the ball back to the pitcher. As Drellich explains, that’s perhaps of particular concern here: Swihart is reacclimating to life behind the dish after a stint in the outfield (and then on the DL) in 2016 and has always faced questions about his defensive abilities.
  

[a700hitter]

[TABLE=width: 100%]

[TR]

[TD]BLAKE SWIHART IS HAVING THROWING PROBLEMS, BUT RED SOX (AND BLAKE SWIHART) SAY THERE’S NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT

[/TD]

[TD=align: right]02.17.17 at 1:49 pm ET[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

By Rob Bradford

http://fullcount.weei.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Blakeswihart-400x368.jpgBlake Swihart (Nick Turchiaro/USA Today Sports)

FORT MYERS, Fla. — Not a lot of people were around to witness the uncomfortable bullpen session Thursday.But for those who were there, they saw Blake Swihart show an inability to accurately throw the ball back to Rick Porcello on too many occasions. Pitching coach Carl Willis saw it, as did manager John Farrell and catching instructor/bullpen coach Dana LeVangie.

Friday rolled around and while the problems weren’t as dramatic, the inconsistency in Swihart’s throws continued, leading to a collection of media gathered around the catcher to ask him about the issues before he left JetBlue Park for the day.

“I”m not concerned. I’m going back to catching. In the outfield you have a longer arm swing, a longer arm movement. I’m just trying to shorten it back up. They are misfiring, but I’m not too worried about it,” Swihart said. “It’s just a different arm movement. But I’m working every day to shorten it up, get it short and still have good velocity on my ball. … It’s more me just feeling bad for the pitcher that I’m throwing to.”

And then, as the reporters peeled off, Swihart offered one more proclamation.

“You guys shouldn’t be worried about me,” he said.

LeVangie wasn’t about to suggest there was nothing to see over the last few days, even saying when asked that Swihart’s problems were “out of the blue” when appearing Thursday.

But the catching coach did offer some optimism after working with Swihart Friday and then seeing the slow transformation from an outfielder’s arm motion to that of a catcher.

“There were a couple of bad throws today, but to be honest with you we talked about some things and he got better at doing it,” LeVangie said. “It’s still not finished, but there are signs he can get better from it. We were just looking at spin, how it was coming out of his hand. At times he throws a little rotational, and at times he’s allowing his glove to dictate where his arm path should be going. We want his glove front side to dictate more of back to front motion so his arm path stays on line better.

“We want him to throw more like a catcher rather than middle infielder, a shortstop or an outfielder. I saw far more better throws today than I saw yesterday. He’s going to learn how to throw as a catcher. That’s what we’re working on.”

Swihart reiterated that the 11 months between the last time he lived life as a catcher and jumping back into it this week was the cause for the throwing hiccup.

“The last time I caught was, what? The first six games of the season last year,” he said, referencing his move to outfield. Swihart added, “I feel fine. I’m not worried and you guys shouldn’t be worried either. I’m working on my craft and I promise the ball is going to get there.”