Spring training

[Kimmi]

And I might add, the fat jokes are not even particularly funny.

[a700hitter]

I wanted to see Pablo in better condition than he is too.

 

The difference is, I am being open-minded about it. I want to see him play in regular season games before I decide if he deserves the starting position. If he stinks, he gets benched, no problem.

 

Most people immediately assumed the worst about Pablo as a player and as a person, and wrote him off, based on his appearance. The criticism and the fat jokes have been brutal and down right mean.

Poor Pablo. Sniff sniff.

[Kimmi]

You and I have had the benefit of seeing him in person. I don't know if the others have had the same view. To put it bluntly I was surprised how much he has slipped from the ballplayer I saw last year. His is bigger, slower and clearly less agile. Last year he was the worst defensive 3rd baseman in baseball. His current physical condition doesn't help him get any better.

As for Farrell, didn't he say a couple of weeks before everyone reported that Sandoval had lost weight? We all know that wasn't true. So as far Farrell is concerned I don't trust anything he says especially that crap about Sandoval working hard. The proof will be what happens on the field not what comes out of Farrell's mouth.

 

With no disrespect to either you or a700, you cannot get an accurate assessment of any player based off of a handful of innings in spring training games.

[Kimmi]

Apparently, the media cannot even write about him making errors or he gets upset. Sportswriters have to live with these guys for the next 6 months. I can understand their reluctance to write too much about his weight, although there is plenty out there about his weight. Fans of other teams know about the issue. I assume they are getting the information about the media. Also, they don't need to write about something that we can all clearly see.

 

You know darn well that if the reporters knew that Pablo was 20 pounds heavier than he left last season, it would be heavily reported. Don't try to kid yourself otherwise.

 

As far as Pablo being overly sensitive, he has actually handled himself very well. He has been beaten up daily by the fans and by the press and he has taken most of it in stride.

[Dojji]

Under the same treatment I would have lost it weeks ago. Pablo is really getting the rough end right now.

[a700hitter]

With no disrespect to either you or a700, you cannot get an accurate assessment of any player based off of a handful of innings in spring training games.

The guy can't move. It doesn't take a lot of repetitions to come to that conclusion. You only have to put a stop watch on a player once or twice to know if he has speed. You don't need to watch a guy a lot to make a judgment about his agility. I will say this in his favor. He moves well for a fat man. I think it is safe to assume that he would be more agile and quicker if he were 20 lbs lighter.

[Elktonnick]

If you think it is bad now wait until he gets up North, You ain't seen nothing yet. The fans will drive him out of town.

[Kimmi]

On the topic of Farrell being on the hot seat:

 

Shaw or Sandoval? Hot corner is a hot topic for Red Sox

 

For Farrell, it’s a decision with far-reaching implications. The Sox have finished in last place for two consecutive years and again have a payroll over $200 million. If the Sox are not playing well early on, Farrell could be out of a job by Memorial Day.

 

Showing confidence in a player such as Sandoval is not worth getting fired over.

 

Unfortunately, the "sense of urgency" that Farrell feels might lead him to make some rash decisions which are not necessarily the correct decisions. I understand and agree with the idea that some players should be on a short leash, but I still think that they, Pablo in particular, should be given at least the month of April to either prove himself or to fail.

 

Despite the love for Shaw, I think it's in the team's best interest to give Pablo a fair chance and to hope he succeeds.

 

1. There are the obvious financial reasons.

 

2. Shaw is largely untested as a full time major league player. This is not a knock on Shaw. He has won me over, and I think he would be fine. I also honestly (somewhat) feel that he has earned the spot. But what if he flatlines?

 

3. If Shaw becomes our starting 3B, we lose valuable depth, not only at 3B but at LF and 1B. I know we still have Holt, but our depth still takes a hit.

 

4. One of the team's problems last year was too many new/young players on the team. Hanley is a veteran but is playing a brand new position. I think having a veteran player at 3B would be a plus.

 

Of course, this all hinges on Pablo being successful. If he fails to show any improvement after a month or two, then all bets are off. But I do think it's in the team's best interest to give him a fair shot in real games.

[Elktonnick]

With no disrespect to either you or a700, you cannot get an accurate assessment of any player based off of a handful of innings in spring training games.

No but you don't need more than a couple innings to see a man who is hopelessly out of shape and whose gut is lapping over his belt and who can't bend over to pick up a slow roller.

[Kimmi]

Under the same treatment I would have lost it weeks ago. Pablo is really getting the rough end right now.

 

Dojii, you have been one of the few voices of reason lately. Thank you.

[a700hitter]

You know darn well that if the reporters knew that Pablo was 20 pounds heavier than he left last season, it would be heavily reported. Don't try to kid yourself otherwise.

 

As far as Pablo being overly sensitive, he has actually handled himself very well. He has been beaten up daily by the fans and by the press and he has taken most of it in stride.

And of course your speculation is more valid than the speculation of others.

[Dojji]

If you think it is bad now wait until he gets up North, You ain't seen nothing yet. The fans will drive him out of town.

 

Already decided that have you? Whether or not he starts to get the job done as the season warms up?

[a700hitter]

On the topic of Farrell being on the hot seat:

 

 

 

Unfortunately, the "sense of urgency" that Farrell feels might lead him to make some rash decisions which are not necessarily the correct decisions. I understand and agree with the idea that some players should be on a short leash, but I still think that they, Pablo in particular, should be given at least the month of April to either prove himself or to fail.

 

Despite the love for Shaw, I think it's in the team's best interest to give Pablo a fair chance and to hope he succeeds.

 

1. There are the obvious financial reasons.

 

2. Shaw is largely untested as a full time major league player. This is not a knock on Shaw. He has won me over, and I think he would be fine. I also honestly (somewhat) feel that he has earned the spot. But what if he flatlines?

 

3. If Shaw becomes our starting 3B, we lose valuable depth, not only at 3B but at LF and 1B. I know we still have Holt, but our depth still takes a hit.

 

4. One of the team's problems last year was too many new/young players on the team. Hanley is a veteran but is playing a brand new position. I think having a veteran player at 3B would be a plus.

 

Of course, this all hinges on Pablo being successful. If he fails to show any improvement after a month or two, then all bets are off. But I do think it's in the team's best interest to give him a fair shot in real games.

Farrell has no problem making plenty of wrong decisions without being on the hotseat.

[Elktonnick]

I wanted to see Pablo in better condition than he is too.

 

The difference is, I am being open-minded about it. I want to see him play in regular season games before I decide if he deserves the starting position. If he stinks, he gets benched, no problem.

 

Most people immediately assumed the worst about Pablo as a player and as a person, and wrote him off, based on his appearance. The criticism and the fat jokes have been brutal and down right mean.

 

Sandoval is the one who is being disrespectful, to himself his employer, his team mates and the fans. He is the one who showed up looking like a fat slob. He had hi chance. He either gets together quickly or put him on waivers. I am tired of enablers making excuses for the over indulgent overpaid baallplayers

[Kimmi]

The guy can't move. It doesn't take a lot of repetitions to come to that conclusion. You only have to put a stop watch on a player once or twice to know if he has speed. You don't need to watch a guy a lot to make a judgment about his agility. I will say this in his favor. He moves well for a fat man. I think it is safe to assume that he would be more agile and quicker if he were 20 lbs lighter.

 

It is interesting, because the early reports out of camp from the beat writers was that Pablo was moving very well and looked better than last season. Did he lose that ability in a two week period? Or maybe he's working on his footwork or something, which is causing him to appear to be less agile right now, while he's working on it.

 

Again, give him a fair chance in some real games. If he stinks, I'll drive his bus out of town.

[Dojji]

I think the big issue right now with simply dismissing Pablo is that after Shaw, we really have exceedingly limited depth at the third base position.

 

If you don't give Pablo a fair chance, you're essentially putting the season up on a pass/fail judgment based on whether or not Shaw is what he looked like last year and this Spring. Which he might be, but he also might not.

 

If Pablo gets a chance and fails, Shaw is there to back up and provide depth, but if Shaw is your go to guy on day 1 and you have no faith at all in Sandoval, then you have no depth at third base and your only remaining failsafe at the position is Holt.

[a700hitter]

Sandoval is the one who is being disrespectful, to himself his employer, his team mates and the fans. He is the one who showed up looking like a fat slob. He had hi chance. He either gets together quickly or put him on waivers. I am tired of enablers making excuses for the over indulgent overpaid baallplayers

You are right. As a professional, he owed it to his employer and his team mates to come to camp in the best possible shape, especially in light of not earning his money last year. I agree that we will have to wait and see if he rebounds from last year, but are we supposed to be blind to the clear signs that he will not rebound. Are we supposed to ignore his atrocious fielding? Are we supposed to disregard his weight as a negative factor for his performance? No, that would be ridiculous.

[Kimmi]

And of course your speculation is more valid than the speculation of others.

 

Fair enough that I don't know how upset he actually is. But any sensitivity has not manifested itself publicly, except for the one incident with the reporter, which by most accounts, happens often and was blown out of proportion.

[jad]

I don't see those "obvious financial reasons" for playing P.S. You are paying two 3B about $20million. That's what you pay regardless of which one you put on the field. Why does it make "financial" sense to play the more expensive one?

[a700hitter]

It is interesting, because the early reports out of camp from the beat writers was that Pablo was moving very well and looked better than last season. Did he lose that ability in a two week period? Or maybe he's working on his footwork or something, which is causing him to appear to be less agile right now, while he's working on it.

 

Again, give him a fair chance in some real games. If he stinks, I'll drive his bus out of town.

He has trouble getting his balance to make throws on anything other than the most routine of plays. Again, my biggest problem with Sandoval is that his upside is just not great enough to wait for it. He was never that good. Hanley has huge upside with his bat and the guy can still run too. Pablo is just blocking younger better players imo.

[Dojji]

I don't see those "obvious financial reasons" for playing P.S. You are paying two 3B about $20million. That's what you pay regardless of which one you put on the field. Why does it make "financial" sense to play the more expensive one?

 

I agree to an extent, but sunk cost fallacy aside we're stuck with this guy, it makes more sense to see what we can get out of him than it does to simply dismiss whatever asset we may have in sandoval outright. As I said, we actually have very little depth at third base right now, our entire depth at 3b consists of players who could be moved to third base, including Shaw who was considered mostly a 1B prospect at the big league level until we got desperate, as well as possibly guys like Moncada or Swihart that could, one assumes, learn on the job. That's not fantastic depth to be dismissing a veteran starting player after a single poor year.

 

So it's not a financial reason so much as good asset and depth management, to see what we have with Sandoval, remove the emotions of last year from the equation and give him a fair chance, before making him the world's most expensive bench player, than it does to panic (and that's what this is, mindless, unreasoning, emotional PANIC) and move on to plan B without even trying plan A under the lights.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Dojji

[a700hitter]

I think the big issue right now with simply dismissing Pablo is that after Shaw, we really have exceedingly limited depth at the third base position.

 

If you don't give Pablo a fair chance, you're essentially putting the season up on a pass/fail judgment based on whether or not Shaw is what he looked like last year and this Spring. Which he might be, but he also might not.

 

If Pablo gets a chance and fails, Shaw is there to back up and provide depth, but if Shaw is your go to guy on day 1 and you have no faith at all in Sandoval, then you have no depth at third base and your only remaining failsafe at the position is Holt.

We have sufficient depth with Holt if Shaw blows up or gets injured.

[Dojji]

And who's doing all the other things Holt does, if Holt is tied down at third base? Holt also isn't likely to hit like a starting 3B -- he's good for a backup, very good in fact, but Holt is not a starter.

 

If you panic give up on Sandoval out of hand you're putting unreasonable pressure on both Shaw and Holt, and stressing our depth, when both may be unnecessary. Stay the course for a few weeks on Sandoval and evaluate from there. That's all Kimmi and I are saying.

[a700hitter]

And who's doing all the other things Holt does, if Holt is tied down at third base? Holt also isn't likely to hit like a starting 3B -- he's good for a backup, very good in fact, but Holt is not a starter.

How many levels of depth do you want? You could say the same thing if Holt has to play second base every day if Pedroia gets hurt.

[a700hitter]

Also, Hanley could play 3B. He has played 99 games at 3B in his career.

[Dojji]

Except at second base, we have Betts, who's out of practice but does have big league experience at second base and can come up to speed if necessary. Between Pedroia, Holt, and Betts, that's 3 layers of depth. That's good enough. If we dismiss Sandoval, you're pretty much only 2 layers deep at third base, and with no help from the minors.

[a700hitter]

Except at second base, we have Betts, who's out of practice but does have big league experience at second base and can come up to speed if necessary. Between Pedroia, Holt, and Betts, that's 3 layers of depth. That's good enough. If we dismiss Sandoval, you're pretty much only 2 layers deep at third base, and with no help from the minors.

Hanley, who has played 99 games at 3B.

[Dojji]

And has a bum shoulder and can't make the throws anymore.

[a700hitter]

And has a bum shoulder and can't make the throws anymore.

He's a depth option -- essentially 3rd string. Reports are that his shoulder is fine.

[Station 13]

Is Buccholz even in camp? Radio silent on him.