8/12 AL Bottom feeders vs NL Shit Show

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I'd lose my mind watching that game live.............. . .

 

I almost left after the 10 run inning. I only stayed cause there were a good amount of Red Sox fans and enjoying my beers. It helped ease the pain.

[Thunder]

I almost left after the 10 run inning. I only stayed cause there were a good amount of Red Sox fans and enjoying my beers. It helped ease the pain.

 

And no matter what anyone thinks, the stadium is pretty nice. The team may suck, but at least they have a state of the art ballpark, except for that thing that goes off after a HR.

[a700hitter]

I almost left after the 10 run inning. I only stayed cause there were a good amount of Red Sox fans and enjoying my beers. It helped ease the pain.

How did you enjoy your time in the NY metropolitan area? BTW, going to see the Mets was a good move. Nice stadium and they have a truly special pitching staff. I was at the game last night and saw deGrom for the first time in person. I think he might be better than Harvey and Syndegard. They all sit at 95-98 and they all have excellent command of the Zone. I lwas in the upper deck last night behind home plate so I had a great vantage point for how he works the corners. This kid never throws anything over the middle of the plate. If he misses his location, he misses off the corner. Yet, he throws a very high percentage of strikes. I haven't seen Matz, but a few of my season ticket holding friends have told me that they think he may be the best of the bunch. That is hard for me to fathom after seeing the other three.

 

After last night's game, CarGo said that deGrom has the best stuff of any pitcher that he has seen this season by far. He faced Harvey the night before, and he sees some pretty good pitchers in his division. Hitters say that he has a lot of movement.

 

BTW CarGo is back to being the player he was before the injuries. On Monday night, I was at the game and he hit a line drive that I thought had a good chance to find the gap. It didn't have a lot of height so I was pegging it for landing a good 20-30 feet from the warning track, but then it looked like after burners kicked in and this ball was in the stands in a nanosecond. It generated a lot of buzz at the park. My son and I couldn't believe how fast it left the park and neither of us thought it was a home run off the bat. It was no cheapie. It went out to just the left of center field. I think it is about 370 at that point and his ball went over th original wall which is further back. It was one of the most impressive home runs that I have seen in a long time.

 

Back to the Mets pitching. Niese is nothing to sneeze at either. He would be our number 1 and Dillon Gee who can't even make their staff compares very favorably with Porcello.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

How did you enjoy your time in the NY metropolitan area? BTW, going to see the Mets was a good move. Nice stadium and they have a truly special pitching staff. I was at the game last night and saw deGrom for the first time in person. I think he might be better than Harvey and Syndegard. They all sit at 95-98 and they all have excellent command of the Zone. I lwas in the upper deck last night behind home plate so I had a great vantage point for how he works the corners. This kid never throws anything over the middle of the plate. If he misses his location, he misses off the corner. Yet, he throws a very high percentage of strikes. I haven't seen Matz, but a few of my season ticket holding friends have told me that they think he may be the best of the bunch. That is hard for me to fathom after seeing the other three.

 

After last night's game, CarGo said that deGrom has the best stuff of any pitcher that he has seen this season by far. He faced Harvey the night before, and he sees some pretty good pitchers in his division. Hitters say that he has a lot of movement.

 

BTW CarGo is back to being the player he was before the injuries. On Monday night, I was at the game and he hit a line drive that I thought had a good chance to find the gap. It didn't have a lot of height so I was pegging it for landing a good 20-30 feet from the warning track, but then it looked like after burners kicked in and this ball was in the stands in a nanosecond. It generated a lot of buzz at the park. My son and I couldn't believe how fast it left the park and neither of us thought it was a home run off the bat. It was no cheapie. It went out to just the left of center field. I think it is about 370 at that point and his ball went over th original wall which is further back. It was one of the most impressive home runs that I have seen in a long time.

 

Back to the Mets pitching. Niese is nothing to sneeze at either. He would be our number 1 and Dillon Gee who can't even make their staff compares very favorably with Porcello.

 

Yes, definitely a great decision to go the Mets game. Harvey pitched great and I got to see a walk off. The Mets are looking strong this year. I hope the Nationals don't beat them out. You should definitely catch some more games at Citi Field, I know I would. Actually thinking about buying tickets next time the Mets come down to Miami. As a matter of fact, for the first time ever the Red Sox will be playing in Citi Field. They were promoting it at the game I went to. It is late August I believe.

 

New York is amazing. I actually want to move out there. Everyone keeps telling me it is way too expensive. If I did move to NY, it wouldn't be Manhattan. It was definitely my favorite part of the trip, but Queens is nice, Astoria to be exact. Long Island City felt just like my neighborhood. Will never forget where I had my first pie. Made friends with the son of the owner of a place called Subway Inn. It's right on the corner when you get off the Roosevelt Island Tramway. Helped me out a lot in what to do and what not to do. I never took a cab in NY, which is something I really wanted to do for the experience. There are beautiful women everywhere you go. I love taking the subway and putting on my headphones to listen to music. Sucks at night though, but that is understandable. Loved going to museums filled with art. Plenty of parks to see how beautiful the city is. Gantry State plaza was the best one in my opinion. Times Square is overrated, I hate it. Stayed at the Bentley Hotel and it was nice, but never again. The way they run their hotel is horrible. I went to wayyyyy too many bars lol, but it was a blast. Yankees game was quite boring. I went to the game we lost 2-1 on RBIs by A-Rod and Ellsbury, but I am glad I was finally able to watch a game at Yankee Stadium. I ended my trip in Brooklyn but I was so tired, I barely did anything. I wanted to check out the Barclays center, run along the Brooklyn Bridge, etc. My body and wallet said no, lol. I stayed in an apartment in Bushwick, Brooklyn. Brooklyn probably would have been similar to LIC, Queens, so I probably didn't miss much. Only thing I hated in Brooklyn was having to catch the J train because it took forever to get to Manhattan. I went on a sailboat to get a better view of the statue of liberty, one word, RIPOFF. I would have been better off buying a ticket for a ferry to land at the statue of liberty. I also went to Coney Island and went to Luna Park. It turned out being a great decision because I had a lot of fun. NY is a blast and definitely looking forward to going again in the future. No more trips for me though. Traveling is such an expensive habit, but worth every penny. Think next year I'm going to take it easy and just go on a road trip to Tampa and watch the Sox play at the circus, a.k.a The Trop.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

And no matter what anyone thinks, the stadium is pretty nice. The team may suck, but at least they have a state of the art ballpark, except for that thing that goes off after a HR.

 

Everyone likes it here, I hate it. It looks like whoever was in charge of making the stadium, grabbed a 64 box of crayola and added it to the field. It's ugly. Maybe on TV it looks nice, but that is a s***** stadium. The only thing I like is the roof. It was a day game yesterday, but they closed the roof so I didn't have to fight off that horrible Florida sun. Oh and that little pinball HR ******** they have in CF, I hope it blows up. The stadium is in a really s***** area, no wonder why no one shows up to their games. I heard more "Lets go Red Sox" yesterday than the home team. It was easily 70 percent Red Sox fans. Miami baseball is a joke.

[a700hitter]

Yes, definitely a great decision to go the Mets game. Harvey pitched great and I got to see a walk off. The Mets are looking strong this year. I hope the Nationals don't beat them out. You should definitely catch some more games at Citi Field, I know I would. Actually thinking about buying tickets next time the Mets come down to Miami. As a matter of fact, for the first time ever the Red Sox will be playing in Citi Field. They were promoting it at the game I went to. It is late August I believe.

 

New York is amazing. I actually want to move out there. Everyone keeps telling me it is way too expensive. If I did move to NY, it wouldn't be Manhattan. It was definitely my favorite part of the trip, but Queens is nice, Astoria to be exact. Long Island City felt just like my neighborhood. Will never forget where I had my first pie. Made friends with the son of the owner of a place called Subway Inn. It's right on the corner when you get off the Roosevelt Island Tramway. Helped me out a lot in what to do and what not to do. I never took a cab in NY, which is something I really wanted to do for the experience. There are beautiful women everywhere you go. I love taking the subway and putting on my headphones to listen to music. Sucks at night though, but that is understandable. Loved going to museums filled with art. Plenty of parks to see how beautiful the city is. Gantry State plaza was the best one in my opinion. Times Square is overrated, I hate it. Stayed at the Bentley Hotel and it was nice, but never again. The way they run their hotel is horrible. I went to wayyyyy too many bars lol, but it was a blast. Yankees game was quite boring. I went to the game we lost 2-1 on RBIs by A-Rod and Ellsbury, but I am glad I was finally able to watch a game at Yankee Stadium. I ended my trip in Brooklyn but I was so tired, I barely did anything. I wanted to check out the Barclays center, run along the Brooklyn Bridge, etc. My body and wallet said no, lol. I stayed in an apartment in Bushwick, Brooklyn. Brooklyn probably would have been similar to LIC, Queens, so I probably didn't miss much. Only thing I hated in Brooklyn was having to catch the J train because it took forever to get to Manhattan. I went on a sailboat to get a better view of the statue of liberty, one word, RIPOFF. I would have been better off buying a ticket for a ferry to land at the statue of liberty. I also went to Coney Island and went to Luna Park. It turned out being a great decision because I had a lot of fun. NY is a blast and definitely looking forward to going again in the future. No more trips for me though. Traveling is such an expensive habit, but worth every penny. Think next year I'm going to take it easy and just go on a road trip to Tampa and watch the Sox play at the circus, a.k.a The Trop.

You really did a lot in a short time span. Astoria is a great value. It's minutes from Manhattan and much much cheaper. Lot's of good restaurants and bars far below Manhattan prices. It's a bustling area , but very much a residential neighborhood. LIC is still developing. When I worked there from 2020-2008 it was very industrial, but it has been transitioning to more of business office/residential area, but at night it is desolate. In Astoria, there is a lot of nightlife -- sports bars, restaurants etc and some people just out for a stroll. Brooklyn now has some of the most expensive real estate. I am sorry that my family moved. LOL!!

[a700hitter]

Everyone likes it here, I hate it. It looks like whoever was in charge of making the stadium, grabbed a 64 box of crayola and added it to the field. It's ugly. Maybe on TV it looks nice, but that is a s***** stadium. The only thing I like is the roof. It was a day game yesterday, but they closed the roof so I didn't have to fight off that horrible Florida sun. Oh and that little pinball HR ******** they have in CF, I hope it blows up. The stadium is in a really s***** area, no wonder why no one shows up to their games. I heard more "Lets go Red Sox" yesterday than the home team. It was easily 70 percent Red Sox fans. Miami baseball is a joke.

My niece was a Marlins season ticket holder for years. She was a season ticket holder in 2003 when they won. Her favorite player was Josh Beckett. He was supposedly pretty nice with the fans and I think he would hang out and drink at local places. She has been to one game at the new place. It's too far a drive for her and she told me that they put it in the worst place possible in that part of FLA. I am not familiar with the neighborhood. She told me that people wouldn't attend games there, and I put stock in her opinion as she has been living in that part of Florida for around 15 years. You are confirming what she has said, although she liked the stadium a bit more than you. That might be because she drank too much at that game. LOL!!

[Kimmi]

This is why you can't have two rookies in the rotation next season. Kids hit bumps and can be very inconsistent even if they are very talented.

 

This is something we agree on 100%.

[Kimmi]

Yes, definitely a great decision to go the Mets game. Harvey pitched great and I got to see a walk off. The Mets are looking strong this year. I hope the Nationals don't beat them out. You should definitely catch some more games at Citi Field, I know I would. Actually thinking about buying tickets next time the Mets come down to Miami. As a matter of fact, for the first time ever the Red Sox will be playing in Citi Field. They were promoting it at the game I went to. It is late August I believe.

 

Sounds like you had a great time. I have never been to NYC. It's someplace I would love to visit, hopefully in the next few years, but I don't think I could ever live there.

[sk7326]

This is something we agree on 100%.

 

Truth there - but the question is not about whether kids hit bumps (duh!) but whether there is anything to learn that facing AAA hitters can fix. For Rodriguez, I am not sure there is a lot that AAA hitters can offer on that front. He has trouble steering out of a bad inning skid, but that might only really be tackled at the big league level. It is an argument for having a strong bullpen to back him up - but that is obvious. Turning over a lineup the third time around is difficult - hell in the postseason you saw managers flat out not bother to let starters even do it - only way to get reps is to get reps.

[Kimmi]

Truth there - but the question is not about whether kids hit bumps (duh!) but whether there is anything to learn that facing AAA hitters can fix. For Rodriguez, I am not sure there is a lot that AAA hitters can offer on that front. He has trouble steering out of a bad inning skid, but that might only really be tackled at the big league level. It is an argument for having a strong bullpen to back him up - but that is obvious. Turning over a lineup the third time around is difficult - hell in the postseason you saw managers flat out not bother to let starters even do it - only way to get reps is to get reps.

 

I think this is all true and fine in terms of having one rookie in the rotation. I just think that two rookies (or relative rookies) is too big of a risk. While both of them have looked good, Rodriguez and Owens are largely unproven at the big league level. It's not that it can't work, necessarily, it's just not a gamble I'd want to take.

 

An added benefit of keeping the young guys in AAA to start the season is the depth that they provide in case of injury/underperformance. If Rodriguez and Owens are both in the rotation, who is going to give us quality starts when we need 1 or 2 additional starters?

[a700hitter]

I think this is all true and fine in terms of having one rookie in the rotation. I just think that two rookies (or relative rookies) is too big of a risk. While both of them have looked good, Rodriguez and Owens are largely unproven at the big league level. It's not that it can't work, necessarily, it's just not a gamble I'd want to take.

 

An added benefit of keeping the young guys in AAA to start the season is the depth that they provide in case of injury/underperformance. If Rodriguez and Owens are both in the rotation, who is going to give us quality starts when we need 1 or 2 additional starters?

Unless they are rookies of the quality of Mark Prior and Kerry Wood it almost never works out.

[sk7326]

I think this is all true and fine in terms of having one rookie in the rotation. I just think that two rookies (or relative rookies) is too big of a risk. While both of them have looked good, Rodriguez and Owens are largely unproven at the big league level. It's not that it can't work, necessarily, it's just not a gamble I'd want to take.

 

An added benefit of keeping the young guys in AAA to start the season is the depth that they provide in case of injury/underperformance. If Rodriguez and Owens are both in the rotation, who is going to give us quality starts when we need 1 or 2 additional starters?

 

And you have to be realistic too. Rodriguez has over 100 big league innings under his belt. He might not be proven relative to Roger Clemens or Randy Johnson - but he's a big leaguer with the tools to be a hell of a lot more. He is going to be part of the 2016 rotation, and he's a sophomore. Owens is where the more interesting question lies, and I do see your point, and certainly the team needs 7 or so guys they can turn to for the reasons you cite.

 

Now if they go to the market to get a Cueto (just to put a name out there), then you are looking at a pool of starters with Cueto, Buchholz, Rodriguez, Porcello, Owens, Johnson, Wright, Miley, which is less daunting. One of the areas the brass screwed up in 2015 was not just the rotation that started the season, but not churning aggressively. Of course when the team turned into the 2013 Mariners for an entire month, the churn probably would not have helped much unless you could deliver the 1971 Orioles from behind the curtain.

[iortiz]

And you have to be realistic too. Rodriguez has over 100 big league innings under his belt. He might not be proven relative to Roger Clemens or Randy Johnson - but he's a big leaguer with the tools to be a hell of a lot more. He is going to be part of the 2016 rotation, and he's a sophomore. Owens is where the more interesting question lies, and I do see your point, and certainly the team needs 7 or so guys they can turn to for the reasons you cite.

 

Now if they go to the market to get a Cueto (just to put a name out there), then you are looking at a pool of starters with Cueto, Buchholz, Rodriguez, Porcello, Owens, Johnson, Wright, Miley, which is less daunting. One of the areas the brass screwed up in 2015 was not just the rotation that started the season, but not churning aggressively. Of course when the team turned into the 2013 Mariners for an entire month, the churn probably would not have helped much unless you could deliver the 1971 Orioles from behind the curtain.

How much is Cueto going to make?

 

Cueto or guys like him are a pipedream sk. This team won't sign long term contracts at high AVV for durable proven pitchers beginning their 30s.

Edited August 14, 2015 by iortiz

[Kimmi]

And you have to be realistic too. Rodriguez has over 100 big league innings under his belt. He might not be proven relative to Roger Clemens or Randy Johnson - but he's a big leaguer with the tools to be a hell of a lot more. He is going to be part of the 2016 rotation, and he's a sophomore. Owens is where the more interesting question lies, and I do see your point, and certainly the team needs 7 or so guys they can turn to for the reasons you cite.

 

Now if they go to the market to get a Cueto (just to put a name out there), then you are looking at a pool of starters with Cueto, Buchholz, Rodriguez, Porcello, Owens, Johnson, Wright, Miley, which is less daunting. One of the areas the brass screwed up in 2015 was not just the rotation that started the season, but not churning aggressively. Of course when the team turned into the 2013 Mariners for an entire month, the churn probably would not have helped much unless you could deliver the 1971 Orioles from behind the curtain.

 

I agree with you on Rodriguez. He is likely going to be in the starting rotation to start the season, and he should be fine. However, if the FO picked up 2 starting pitchers this offseason and started Rodriguez in AAA, I would not complain.

 

At minimum, I really believe the Sox need to pick up a top of the rotation starter this offseason. It doesn't have to be an "ace" necessarily, but a solid #1 type. If that happens, then as you said, the rotation and the depth look pretty good.

[cp176]

And you have to be realistic too. Rodriguez has over 100 big league innings under his belt. He might not be proven relative to Roger Clemens or Randy Johnson - but he's a big leaguer with the tools to be a hell of a lot more. He is going to be part of the 2016 rotation, and he's a sophomore. Owens is where the more interesting question lies, and I do see your point, and certainly the team needs 7 or so guys they can turn to for the reasons you cite.

 

Now if they go to the market to get a Cueto (just to put a name out there), then you are looking at a pool of starters with Cueto, Buchholz, Rodriguez, Porcello, Owens, Johnson, Wright, Miley, which is less daunting. One of the areas the brass screwed up in 2015 was not just the rotation that started the season, but not churning aggressively. Of course when the team turned into the 2013 Mariners for an entire month, the churn probably would not have helped much unless you could deliver the 1971 Orioles from behind the curtain.

 

 

Go after the big gun 1. Cueto or Price 2. Trade for the next best available arm (all names should be on the table except E-Rod

3. Rodriguez. the 4 and 5 slots could be filled with any combination of Porcello, Miley, Buccholtz, Owens, or Wright. Kelley plus 2 or 3 move to the pen. The best starting 5 should start. If Owens and Rodriguez are in the group then that is the way it should work. Fix the major fielding issues left field, first base for sure and then off you go. If you fire Farrell and staff then don't play little promotion games and keep Cherington. A lot of coaching has to do with making the tough moves.