2015 Red Sox In-Season Thread

[SoxHop]

Cherington also mentioned something about all the transition the players have gone through. Somebody, I can't remember who, brought it up here in one of the threads, and it's a valid point. Some players were transitioning from minors to majors. Some were transitioning to different teams and different leagues. Some were transitioning to different positions. In Castillo's case, he was transitioning to a new country.

 

We can never know how much of an effect that has had on the team's play, or how long it takes all the players to "settle in", but in lieu of being hasty in making a bunch of moves, you have to let those things play out.

 

It's equally important to recognize a bad fit on the team and take your losses as soon as possible so as to not drag out something that will never work.

[a700hitter]

It's equally important to recognize a bad fit on the team and take your losses as soon as possible so as to not drag out something that will never work.

Panda and Hanley are a couple of slugs. Whether or not they put up their career numbers doesn't mean that they will be a good fit or help the team dynamic.

[Kimmi]

Even if they were able to trade them, who do you replace them with?

The team needs at least one pitcher and after eating a portion of each of Sandoval's and Hanley's contracts, you'll need to pay for at least one middle of the order bat.

 

That's a tall order for a team with not a lot of room under the luxury tax threshold.

 

Trading those two would do nothing but create more holes. As of now, the Sox offense has a pretty good core of position players, with a good mixture of young guys and vets. Outside of 1B, they are pretty well set for several years.

 

I would rather the FO keep them intact, and focus on pitching this offseason, but in the rotation and the BP.

[SoxHop]

I predicted 88 wins, I believe, and first place in the division. I thought the pitching would be middle of the pack, the defense would be top 5, and the offense would be top 1 or 2. Obviously, I was very wrong on all counts.

 

Same here pretty much. I thought we would be fighting for first.

 

I was telling everyone that we would hit like crazy, but the pitching was suspect. I thought Porcello and Miley would be the two most reliable, and was hoping two of the other three would be serviceable.

 

Man was I wrong....

[Kimmi]

I guess I'm not comfortable with rationalizing the significant failures of this team.

 

I see no legitimate reason to expect that Fatboy and Hanley will earn their money going forward. Therefore I can see getting rid of them as justified.

 

About this time next year many more people will feel this way.

 

Based on 3 months of play?

[a700hitter]

I'd put Holt at Third, and I'd get a real outfielder to take Hanley's spot. That shouldn't be that difficult.

[Kimmi]

It's equally important to recognize a bad fit on the team and take your losses as soon as possible so as to not drag out something that will never work.

 

Who is it that you are calling a bad fit?

[SoxHop]

Trading those two would do nothing but create more holes. As of now, the Sox offense has a pretty good core of position players, with a good mixture of young guys and vets. Outside of 1B, they are pretty well set for several years.

 

I would rather the FO keep them intact, and focus on pitching this offseason, but in the rotation and the BP.

 

I could be talked in that only if Hanley isn't in the field.

[SoxnCycles]

Trading those two would do nothing but create more holes. As of now, the Sox offense has a pretty good core of position players, with a good mixture of young guys and vets. Outside of 1B, they are pretty well set for several years.

 

I would rather the FO keep them intact, and focus on pitching this offseason, but in the rotation and the BP.

 

Yup.

Even finding a 1b isn't going to be easy.

Here's the eligible 1B FA as of now:

 

Jeff Baker (35)

Chris Davis (30)

Edwin Encarnacion (33) – $10MM club option with a $2MM buyout

Garrett Jones (35)

Justin Morneau (35) – $9MM mutual option with a $750K buyout

Mike Napoli (34)

Sean Rodriguez (31)

 

Not exactly awe-inspiring.

[SoxHop]

Who is it that you are calling a bad fit?

 

You seriously have to look at Hanley and Sandoval at being a bad fit. Hanley in left is a very bad fit.

 

Now that we have them, maybe the best thing to do is hold on to them and upgrade other positions, but it's hard to argue they haven't been a bad fit so far. And personally their game play and just over all play makes me think they may be a bad fit going forward.

[Spudboy]

So who bats in the middle of the order next year?

 

I do not know. However the Sox have resources to get anyone that they want.

 

I don't see this team contending for a tittle next season. I say continue to develop the younger players.

 

One thing that I would consider doing is moving Swihart to 3rd or 1st. He should be able to make that transition without much pain since he was an infielder and has the arm and overall athleticism. Plus it would help prevent him from breaking down and may possibly accelerate his offensive development.

[Spudboy]

It's equally important to recognize a bad fit on the team and take your losses as soon as possible so as to not drag out something that will never work.

 

I second this idea.

[a700hitter]

It seems that Lauber has joined the fire Cherrington chorus.

If other writers start joining the chorus that will be an indication to me that the FO has put out the word. That is the modus operandi. Immediately before and after they part ways with someone he gets savaged in the press. I don't think it is a coincidence.

[Spudboy]

Based on 3 months of play?

 

Yes.

[a700hitter]

Based on 3 months of play?

How many months are needed to determine that a mistake has been made?

[Bellhorn04]

Panda-Hanley effort & attitude issues seem to me like one more bad reflection on Farrell as a manager.

[Kimmi]

Yup.

Even finding a 1b isn't going to be easy.

Here's the eligible 1B FA as of now:

 

Jeff Baker (35)

Chris Davis (30)

Edwin Encarnacion (33) – $10MM club option with a $2MM buyout

Garrett Jones (35)

Justin Morneau (35) – $9MM mutual option with a $750K buyout

Mike Napoli (34)

Sean Rodriguez (31)

 

Not exactly awe-inspiring.

 

There might be some internal options at 1B, though none of them are that inspiring. The thought of Hanley at 1B scares the heck out of me.

 

I really like the idea of Castillo, Betts, and JBJ in the outfield defensively, but that leaves the question of what to do with Hanley.

 

Anyway, I am not in favor of trading Hanley and Pablo just to "get rid of them". If the FO is blown away by some offer, then by all means, go for it. But I see no reason to sell low on them just to have them off the team.

[Kimmi]

You seriously have to look at Hanley and Sandoval at being a bad fit. Hanley in left is a very bad fit.

 

Now that we have them, maybe the best thing to do is hold on to them and upgrade other positions, but it's hard to argue they haven't been a bad fit so far. And personally their game play and just over all play makes me think they may be a bad fit going forward.

 

I get it. They have both been terrible so far, and because they have large contracts that they haven't come close to fulfilling this year, the popular sentiment is to get rid of them. I fully understand that.

 

I agree, Hanley in LF has been a disaster. Despite his poor defense, however, Hanley has always been a very valuable player because he's that good offensively. He has not done enough offensively this year to overcome his defense, like he has in the past, but I see no reason for his offense not to get back to expected levels.

 

Honestly, I am not concerned about attitude or clubhouse issues with either Hanley or Panda. I think any talk of that is more a result of the team losing so much than it is a result of either of them really being a problem. If they team were playing well and winning, I'd bet there wouldn't be a single concern about it. When things are going this badly, there is always speculation that someone is a bad presence in the clubhouse.

[Kimmi]

How many months are needed to determine that a mistake has been made?

 

Certainly more than 3 months, based on the players they have been career wise and, more importantly, in recent years.

[a700hitter]

Certainly more than 3 months, based on the players they have been career wise and, more importantly, in recent years.

From your prior post it was clear that 3 months was not enough. How many months is enough?

[Bellhorn04]

We're at 3.5 months now.

[Kimmi]

From your prior post it was clear that 3 months was not enough. How many months is enough?

 

Midpoint next season.

[Kimmi]

We're at 3.5 months now.

 

I would say the same thing if we were at the end of the season.

[Kimmi]

Does anyone really believe that Hanley or Pablo, much less both of them, are really worse than replacement level players?

[Spudboy]

Panda-Hanley effort & attitude issues seem to me like one more bad reflection on Farrell as a manager.

 

Or maybe the people that decided to hire them?

[Spudboy]

Midpoint next season.

 

This is why I stated earlier that about this time next year many more people would agree with what I had said.

 

I see a mistake now. No sense in waiting to correct it.

[Bellhorn04]

Or maybe the people that decided to hire them?

 

Depends how you look at it. Some players need to be kept in line. I don't think either of these two rise to Manny's level of difficulty.

 

I'm starting to really believe that Farrell is doing a lousy job motivating this team. It shows in a lot of areas.

[Spudboy]

Does anyone really believe that Hanley or Pablo, much less both of them, are really worse than replacement level players?

 

The defense of both seems to be. But otherwise, no.

 

But why ask that question? Are you assuming that anyone here is advocating replacing either or both with replacement level players? I certainly am not.

[Spudboy]

Depends how you look at it. Some players need to be kept in line. I don't think either of these two rise to Manny's level of difficulty.

 

I'm starting to really believe that Farrell is doing a lousy job motivating this team. It shows in a lot of areas.

 

I can see your points.

 

Although as someone who has been a manager of people for a very long time, I think that "motivating" employees is largely over blown.

 

They should come to work prepared to do the best that they can do every day.

 

I have no way of knowing if Farrell is a poor motivator. But I do see stupid and sloppy play. Maybe he needs a little more Billy Martin in him.

[User Name]

Cherington also mentioned something about all the transition the players have gone through. Somebody, I can't remember who, brought it up here in one of the threads, and it's a valid point. Some players were transitioning from minors to majors. Some were transitioning to different teams and different leagues. Some were transitioning to different positions. In Castillo's case, he was transitioning to a new country.

 

We can never know how much of an effect that has had on the team's play, or how long it takes all the players to "settle in", but in lieu of being hasty in making a bunch of moves, you have to let those things play out.

 

That was me. It only makes sense.