2014 Offseason Thread

[Palodios]

The number is 180-- much more than I thought was involved here. I don't understand why teams insist on bidding against themselves. A Swihart-led deal for Strasburg makes a lot of sense.

[User Name]

No it really doesn't. At least not for the Red Sox.

[Palodios]

No it really doesn't. At least not for the Red Sox.

I don't know about you, but I am tired of prospects that don't work out. The Sox need to find top tier pitching somewhere, and they clearly aren't paying top dollar on anyone.

[Elktonnick]

I don't know about you, but I am tired of prospects that don't work out. The Sox need to find top tier pitching somewhere, and they clearly aren't paying top dollar on anyone.

 

That's why they're called prospects because most don't work out. If they all were successful then they wouldn't be prospects they would be sure things.

[User Name]

I don't know about you, but I am tired of prospects that don't work out. The Sox need to find top tier pitching somewhere, and they clearly aren't paying top dollar on anyone.

 

With the way offense has deflated over the past few years, i'd do my best not to trade top-tier offensive prospects for pitching. Swihart's about as sure a thing as you can find from the C position both offensively and defensively. I get that you're in "all in" mode right now, but for the winning to be sustainable, they need to have some semblance of a plan for the future as well.

[BSN07]

Swihart and Betts are the most untouchable prospects the Sox have.

 

So glad Scherzer is going to the Nats.. I did not need to see him struggle gettng to the 6th inning for the next 7 years

[cp176]

With the way offense has deflated over the past few years, i'd do my best not to trade top-tier offensive prospects for pitching. Swihart's about as sure a thing as you can find from the C position both offensively and defensively. I get that you're in "all in" mode right now, but for the winning to be sustainable, they need to have some semblance of a plan for the future as well.

 

I like both Vasquez and Swihart. We have seen a small sample with respect to Vasquez at the ml level. I truly understand the desire to keep them both but if Swihart is as good a catcher as he projects to be, I don't see them together on a future Red Sox team. I don't think you move either one of them at this time but I am wondering (not that it makes any difference ) what their "plan" might be. Good catchers certainly are very valuable and I don't see Swihart moving to first or dh ing .

[wyo-sox]

I don't know about you, but I am tired of prospects that don't work out. The Sox need to find top tier pitching somewhere, and they clearly aren't paying top dollar on anyone.

 

 

Amen to this! I think Vazquez can be a really good catcher for the Sox for the future. I see no reason to hold onto someone based on projections if it stood in the way of proven elite pitching.

[User Name]

....and if Vasquez turns into an offensive black hole (which he very well might), then the "FO is stupid for trading Swihart" chants will begin.

[cp176]

....and if Vasquez turns into an offensive black hole (which he very well might), then the "FO is stupid for trading Swihart" chants will begin.

 

I would like to see them both kept for now. I would steer away from Betts and Swihart at his time. I do think that Vasquez has to be given a chance. I think that he turns into a very very good defender and pitch caller. Long leash for him to prove that he can hit just a little - just a little north of .200. Anyone else I would think would serve as fair game to trade for a pitcher like Zimmerman. They go and get a proven young arm, you would never hear a chant from me. I don't really think that anyone really significant would listen to the chants anyway. I hope they wouldn't. Ticket sales dropping might have an effect but talk on a forum - not so much I hope.

[dupree]

Scherzer deal reports 7 yrs of work and 7 years after he's done pitching... so it's 14 years 210 million.. WTF

[Palodios]

....and if Vasquez turns into an offensive black hole (which he very well might), then the "FO is stupid for trading Swihart" chants will begin.

 

I'm more concerned about seeing a good team than what the chanters think or believe.

 

With everything we hear about the front office's thinking, Strasburg is the type of guy they are looking for, and the kind of guy they would work on extending.

 

That being said, Fister may cost significantly less, fits into the team's finances and has a very high GB%.

[Spudboy]

I don't follow the NL and particularly the Nats closely.

 

Has Strasburg lived up to his hype? Or is he somewhat of a flop? Is he healthy?

[User Name]

I'm more concerned about seeing a good team than what the chanters think or believe.

 

With everything we hear about the front office's thinking, Strasburg is the type of guy they are looking for, and the kind of guy they would work on extending.

 

That being said, Fister may cost significantly less, fits into the team's finances and has a very high GB%.

 

Also, they could just sign Shields and keep their prospects.

[Palodios]

I don't follow the NL and particularly the Nats closely.

 

Has Strasburg lived up to his hype? Or is he somewhat of a flop? Is he healthy?

 

He's generally hovered around a 3.00 ERA, and 10 K/9. He has been mostly healthy since the TJS in 2010, but you never know how elbows last on power pitchers these days. It seems like a risk worth taking, but I'd be happy with Fister or Zimmerman too.

[Palodios]

Also, they could just sign Shields and keep their prospects.

 

Strasburg has an upward trajectory, and Shields has a downward one.

 

The Red Sox FO doesn't want to sign old pitchers anymore. Shields would be great, but I just don't see them paying the money -- the bigger problem is that I don't see them paying the money on the 2015 offseason's pitchers either.

[iortiz]

I don't know about you, but I am tired of prospects that don't work out. The Sox need to find top tier pitching somewhere, and they clearly aren't paying top dollar on anyone.

 

100 times this.

 

As it seems, the more likely way (if so) to do this will be via trading which would be absolutely absurd, considering that Shields is still there and 100 M wouldn't hurt by any means JH's economy.

[User Name]

Strasburg has an upward trajectory, and Shields has a downward one.

 

The Red Sox FO doesn't want to sign old pitchers anymore. Shields would be great, but I just don't see them paying the money -- the bigger problem is that I don't see them paying the money on the 2015 offseason's pitchers either.

 

You mean Sheilds has a "projected" downwards trajectory. He's been nothing if not consistently good the last 4-5 years.

[iortiz]

Strasburg has an upward trajectory, and Shields has a downward one.

 

The Red Sox FO doesn't want to sign old pitchers anymore. Shields would be great, but I just don't see them paying the money -- the bigger problem is that I don't see them paying the money on the 2015 offseason's pitchers either.

I would start signing Shields this offseason without giving up any top prospect and in 2016, I would sign another elite arm to round the rotation.

[BSN07]

7/210M for Scherzer, to be paid 15M a year for 14 years. Has to be one of the most interesting contract concept I have seen yet.

 

I'd keep Swihart no matter what. I would be more willing to say Betts for Strasburg maybe. I like Betts a lot but he's blocked in the IF and could be replaced easier then say a top of the rotation SP. But with Strasburg you get Boras, which likely means no extension and it will cost 200M+ to sign him on the open market. And with that my interest flys out the window on trading Betts.

 

I'm also reading a rumor that the Brewers are going to make a run on Zimmerman after trading Gallardo earlier today. Zimmerman turned down a pretty big extension offer from the Nats because he wanted to pitch closer to home(Wisconsin). If the Nats deal Zim they won't be dealing anyone else.

[User Name]

100 times this.

 

As it seems, the more likely way (if so) to do this will be via trading which would be absolutely absurd, considering that Shields is still there and 100 M wouldn't hurt by any means JH's economy.

 

You are presenting an entirely different point, but i agree. Let them sign Shields and keep their prospects.

[a700hitter]

I don't think that the Red Sox have the prospects to land Strasbourg, but if we did it would cost Betts, Swihart and Owens. Strasburg is a young stud just coming into his own. He put up 200 innings and 242 k's last year. He took all of his starts.

[iortiz]

You are presenting an entirely different point, but i agree. Let them sign Shields and keep their prospects.

 

Not sure what you mean with this but just as Pal said I am also tired of prospects that don't work out. The Sox need to find top tier pitching somewhere, hopefully via FA since they have money, and they clearly aren't paying top dollar on anyone these days.

[Palodios]

You mean Sheilds has a "projected" downwards trajectory. He's been nothing if not consistently good the last 4-5 years.

 

The odds of a RHP starter pitching effectively into his late 30s generally are not very good. Look at Halladay -- his career fell off a cliff at 35.

 

The Red Sox have been very clear on their opinion of old starting pitchers -- my guess is Bill James has given them plenty of hard evidence on that.

[User Name]

The odds of a RHP starter pitching effectively into his late 30s generally are not very good. Look at Halladay -- his career fell off a cliff at 35.

 

The Red Sox have been very clear on their opinion of old starting pitchers -- my guess is Bill James has given them plenty of hard evidence on that.

 

Yet Strasburg, because of his mechanics, presents an inherently high risk himself. I'm sure the Sox have looked into this as well.

[Palodios]

I don't think that the Red Sox have the prospects to land Strasbourg, but if we did it would cost Betts, Swihart and Owens. Strasburg is a young stud just coming into his own. He put up 200 innings and 242 k's last year. He took all of his starts.

 

Ace pitchers have been costing 1 bluechip + pieces these days, not 3.

[iortiz]

The odds of a RHP starter pitching effectively into his late 30s generally are not very good. Look at Halladay -- his career fell off a cliff at 35.

 

The Red Sox have been very clear on their opinion of old starting pitchers -- my guess is Bill James has given them plenty of hard evidence on that.

 

Well, say he signs for 5 Y and if the guy posts 3/5 Y good numbers (which is perfectly achievable), 1/5 Y league average numbers and 1/5 bad numbers, call it deal.

[User Name]

Not sure what you mean with this but just as Pal said I am also tired of prospects that don't work out. The Sox need to find top tier pitching somewhere, hopefully via FA since they have money, and they clearly aren't paying top dollar on anyone these days.

 

Because Pal's point is that they should go for pitching via trade. That is a different argument. I'm saying they should sign Shields and keep their prospects.

[User Name]

Well, say he signs for 5 Y and if the guy posts 3/5 Y good numbers (which is perfectly achievable), 1/5 Y league average numbers and 1/5 bad numbers, call it deal.

 

He could also be worth his deal is his numbers decline because of age and not injury, as the market keeps inflating.

[Palodios]

Because Pal's point is that they should go for pitching via trade. That is a different argument. I'm saying they should sign Shields and keep their prospects.

 

I'd love Shields here. I would have loved Lester or Scherzer too. However, if the Red Sox aren't going to pay big money, then they might as well get a pitcher via the trade market, and Strasburg is a good one.