2014 Offseason Thread

[User Name]

Too much assumption being taken as certainty around here.

[seabeachfred]

I request five examples of times when Cherington "blew the duke" (whatever that means) and seriously screwed up a personnel decision.

 

One was the signing of AJ Pierzynski, two was the super duper signing of Drew, three was the signing of Mujica, four was the blowing of the Lester negotiations and allowing our best pitcher and savior of the 2013 post-season to leave the team and more than likely never return, five was the insistence that Bradley stay in the lineup come what may. What came was a disaster. That's five for you and there is a helluva lot more. I didn't even bring up any of the missteps Benny took after the 2011 season.

[seabeachfred]

Even if his number is a CC Fatassia deal? No thanks. Listen I want Lester back too but not at some outrageous price. Signing him into his late 30's is risky enough as it is even tho he's been a horse. But so was CC until he wasn't, so was Halladay, and even the immortal noodle arm of Cliff Lee has shown signs of breaking down.

 

I mean some on here are worrying about Panda at the end of the Sox current offer in his age 33 maybe 34 seasons but just assume Lester will be Lester through to the end of his deal. Both are crap shoots for the 2nd half of the deals, but I don't see anyone worrying about Lester being dead weight at the end of his contract. If you are worried about Panda you should also be worried about Lester too.

 

Not so BSN and for the simple reason we need Lester a helluva lot more than we need Sandoval. Lester is an ace pitcher and he has proven he can help the Red Sox win titles, and while Pablo is certainly no loser by any means, we know Jon is durable and built well while Pablo is a tub sized blimp who needles is pointed up when it comes to weight in the next few years. Lester can help us in another title or two during a six year stretch, Pablo cannot unless we load up on top quality starting pitchers not named Masterson, Hummels, Santana or the rest of the low risk high reward types we tried out in those pathetic years of 2009-2011 and which got us nowhere.

[BornToRun]

One was the signing of AJ Pierzynski, two was the super duper signing of Drew, three was the signing of Mujica, four was the blowing of the Lester negotiations and allowing our best pitcher and savior of the 2013 post-season to leave the team and more than likely never return, five was the insistence that Bradley stay in the lineup come what may. What came was a disaster. That's five for you and there is a helluva lot more. I didn't even bring up any of the missteps Benny took after the 2011 season.

 

1. AJP was just a one year stop gap to hold down the fort. He was a consistent low to mid .700 OPS bat and while he sucked, it's hard to call it a bad signing.

2. Drew was brought in to fill a hole while we were still trying to contend. Like AJP, it didn't work out, but it's hard to take issue with the thinking.

3. Mujica was brought in for a lowly 9 million dollars and demonstrated a skill set that reminded one of Koji. Relievers are up and down and Mujica was a decent sign in an environment where folks like brandon league get huge dollars.

4. Lester was coming off of a 110 ERA+ and while it looks bad in hindsight, I don't think you can fault the FO for not ponying up 100+ million for him prior to 2014.

5. Rookies struggle, he wasn't going to get better in AAA or riding the pine.

 

Please, try harder.

[sk7326]

Sorry Dojji but you are completely wrong on this. It is an open bidding process and negotiations can be approached in any desired fashion.

 

I said it before. The Sox should have given Lester a "no walk" price ( offer ). An offer very close to or exceeding what would be seen as market value. In this case it should have been 6/130 - 6/140 ( maybe even 145 ). If he was leaning toward returning as everyone has assumed, he would have signed before leaving town. Presented in a way that Lester felt pressure not to leave. This technique usually works if the negotiator knows what the hell they are doing. I have done it hundreds of times and have seen it done thousands of times. It does not matter that he has a right to do this or do that. A strong negotiator takes the bull by the horns and gets it done or he will not have a job for long. That is what happens in the real world. Not the concocted fantasy of professional sports.

 

The Sox had the upper hand while he was in town. Now Lester has walked and chances are that he may not come back. That is what happens when you are not a "closer" in sales.

 

No personal attack intended Dojji. Maybe you have not been working in marketing and sales for 40 years.

 

I am not sure there was a dollar value that would have gotten Lester to stay - but there was one which would have allowed him to walk away. Assuming the leaks are correct and the Sox offered Lester 6 years, that is enough to keep them in it. Once they committed to the sixth year, it means they will be a viable contender here.

[sk7326]

One was the signing of AJ Pierzynski, two was the super duper signing of Drew, three was the signing of Mujica, four was the blowing of the Lester negotiations and allowing our best pitcher and savior of the 2013 post-season to leave the team and more than likely never return, five was the insistence that Bradley stay in the lineup come what may. What came was a disaster. That's five for you and there is a helluva lot more. I didn't even bring up any of the missteps Benny took after the 2011 season.

 

If Cherington worked magic a year ago, he did not become an imbecile overnight. I was on this board last offseason - most applauded his relatively restrained offseason - although intelligent minds differed on the Ellsbury business. (as it turned out, they were not necessarily wrong in not signing Ellsbury, but Bradley did not hold up his end of the deal) The AJ signing made sense as a contractual stopgap - they did not want to commit to anybody with the kids coming. The Drew re-signing made sense also (basically the bet was Bogaerts was better than any free agent 3B) though intelligent minds could disagree there surely. Mujica was a nothingburger (useful guy for what he is).

 

Indeed the team DIDN'T insist that Bradley be in there hell or high water - that's why they gave Grady Sizemore's entrails a starting job over a good three weeks in Fort Myers. If anything, they should have done that - but they did not have a winning strategy for him. They got weak kneed with Bogaerts too. When you see how hopeless Pedroia was in his cup of coffee in 2006, there was proof that you are better off standing behind your evaluations than, say, listening to what talk show callers say or what a decrepit former MVP-sort did over a random month against future minor leaguers.

[a700hitter]

1. AJP was just a one year stop gap to hold down the fort. He was a consistent low to mid .700 OPS bat and while he sucked, it's hard to call it a bad signing.

2. Drew was brought in to fill a hole while we were still trying to contend. Like AJP, it didn't work out, but it's hard to take issue with the thinking.

3. Mujica was brought in for a lowly 9 million dollars and demonstrated a skill set that reminded one of Koji. Relievers are up and down and Mujica was a decent sign in an environment where folks like brandon league get huge dollars.

4. Lester was coming off of a 110 ERA+ and while it looks bad in hindsight, I don't think you can fault the FO for not ponying up 100+ million for him prior to 2014.

5. Rookies struggle, he wasn't going to get better in AAA or riding the pine.

 

Please, try harder.

Lol! He named 5 and you came up with a list of excuses. There are always excuses. Duh. But they are still f*** ups.

[BornToRun]

Lol! He named 5 and you came up with a list of excuses. There are always excuses. Duh. But they are still f*** ups.

 

I'm less than surprised that you're stepping in to side with that dunce.

[a700hitter]

I'm less than surprised that you're stepping in to side with that dunce.

 

Lol! Dick.

[BornToRun]

Lol! Dick.

I've never claimed to be anything less.

[SeanJohn93]

Sox agree with Hanley Ramirez

[SeanJohn93]

Jon Heyman reports that they are still in play for Sandoval as Hanley would move to the outfield thus increasing the possibility of a Yoenis Cespedes trade

[SoxFanForsyth]

 

Yeah....panda on his way to Boston to sign

[RedSoxNC84]

 

Yeah....panda on his way to Boston to sign

 

That could literally be anybody.

[Palodios]

Is that first class? That person doesn't look big enough to be Pablo, imo. He looks like he fits in those seats, and I can't remember the last time I fit in an airplane seat at practically half his size.

[BornToRun]

That could literally be anybody.

 

Except for me. Because, while I am pretty chunky, I am whiter than Rick Astley on a dance floor.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Ok. We will see. That's s huge ring for just anybody

[d-money]

This is all great but where is the pitching?Losing cespedes will be tough.The guy can rake

[BornToRun]

This is all great but where is the pitching?Losing cespedes will be tough.The guy can rake

 

The loss is far less tough when his replacements are two above average hitters, one of whom has a 300/373/500 career slash line.

[d-money]

You have a point.It's strange that cespedes didn't like it here as much.Hope we get some pitching

[BornToRun]

You have a point.It's strange that cespedes didn't like it here as much.Hope we get some pitching

 

Popular theory is we sign Lester and flip Yo for an Iwakuma type. I'm on board with that.

[Palodios]

Some reports coming out saying both signings are done deals. Remember in 2012 when poorly made, splashy signings stopped being part of this team's philosophy? Apparently one losing season changed their minds quickly.

[BornToRun]

Some reports coming out saying both signings are done deals. Remember in 2012 when poorly made, splashy signings stopped being part of this team's philosophy? Apparently one losing season changed their minds quickly.

I don't see what's poorly made or flashy here. Sandoval is relatively young and fills a glaring need, Ramirez slots into LF and allows us to dump Cespedes for an arm, and we still have the money to bring in Lester.

 

This doesn't even factor in the idea that 1B/DH should be open to the Panda or Hanley in the future if they can't hold up at 3B/LF.

 

This s*** is brilliant if you ask me.

[sk7326]

Hanley pickup gives them options ... 3B or LF. Very good price for the productivity level - and his defense can only be helped moving off of short.

[RedSoxNC84]

I'm generally down with Cherington's moves, but the HanRam signing to me doesn't make that much sense. Yeah he's got a career line of .300/.373/.500, but he's developed a bit of an injury history and his defense is suspect at best. I guess it remains to be see where he'll play in the field though. I thought that Ramirez was going to be the backup plan for not signing Sandoval, but it appears they are going after both. If this means they'll trade Cespedes, I really hope that means we land Hamels.

[BSN07]

Getting both would be great. Getting Hanley off SS and into the OF should only help his health issues.

 

Also these are flashy signings but they aren't stupid like Crawfords deal. Crawford never should have been signed as they had Elss whos was the same player but better. Also it was a 7/140 deal, the Sox are getting the other 2 for 5/180ish.

 

Also these signings may convince Lester to take a bit less as the Sox are showing they are going for it and not screwing around. Should be an interesting day

[a700hitter]

Some reports coming out saying both signings are done deals. Remember in 2012 when poorly made, splashy signings stopped being part of this team's philosophy? Apparently one losing season changed their minds quickly.

 

It wasn't just a losing season. It was a trainwreck.

[a700hitter]

Hanley will be playing either SS or 3B IMO. I don't see him going to the OF.

[jacksonianmarch]

This is great! Sox sign a beat up non SS whose bat kinda fell off this yr and they're signing an overweight 3b who doesn't hit well and both will be on the books at big money for the next 5 seasons? This is very good, and I'm a Yankee fan.

[sk7326]

Hanley will be playing either SS or 3B IMO. I don't see him going to the OF.

 

He has told suitors he is ok moving off of SS. He physically cannot do it anymore. But the bat still plays at 3B and even LF. It is a smart first signing - gives a lot of options with the rest of it.