Is it time to give up on Peavy and Doubront in the Starting Rotation?

[BigPapi]

Although Peavy did have a nice season in 2012, he really hasn't been consistently dominant for quite some time. Last year he was alright and although he got off to a pretty good start this year, his fastball is nothing like he use to be and his command hasn't been too great. His two seamer is still pretty nasty, but thats only when he can locate it. His start he had two starts ago was very good and his last start was alright, but a 4.52 era in todays mlb is not very good at all. As for Doubront, his season has been even worse. Although his start two days ago wasn't terrible, his fastball velocity was way down. With the plethora of young starting pitchers the sox have in workman, de la rosa, henry ownes, allen webster, and clay buchholz coming back soon, should the sox wait till after the season is over to oust them or do it sooner?

[reYoukilis]

Sooner. The way this season is turning out, we got nothing to lose by seeing what we got in our prospects, especially with the success of De La Rosa and Workman.

[Palodios]

Cherrington needs to get on the phone and start looking for teams that are interested in Buchholz/Peavy/Doubront. There is no reason for these guys to be starting over Workman/RDLR. Absolutely none.

[BigPapi]

Cherrington needs to get on the phone and start looking for teams that are interested in Buchholz/Peavy/Doubront. There is no reason for these guys to be starting over Workman/RDLR. Absolutely none.

 

I agree. Except I don't know what they could get for Douby.

[seabeachfred]

Cherrington needs to get on the phone and start looking for teams that are interested in Buchholz/Peavy/Doubront. There is no reason for these guys to be starting over Workman/RDLR. Absolutely none.

 

Absolutely none is right Pal except for politics and favoritism. The front office has been playing up Bucky and Doobie Doobie do for the past few years and it seems they have a hard time admitting a mistake. Get their asses punched and out of Boston. I was a severe critic of De La Rosa last season but he has won me over. He looks like a real find for us and Workman has earned a spot. Just because he has options shouldn't mean s***. You try to win and if that's not the case Cherington and Farrell should get the hell out of Dodge.

[Palodios]

I agree. Except I don't know what they could get for Douby.

 

He is a 26 year old lefty with high career strikeout numbers with three more controlled years. He also had that crazy streak of around 15-20 QS starts in a row last year, so he definitely will have value to a team somewhere.

[BigPapi]

He is a 26 year old lefty with high career strikeout numbers with three more controlled years. He also had that crazy streak of around 15-20 QS starts in a row last year, so he definitely will have value to a team somewhere.

 

 

True except that it wasn't quality starts but starts giving up no more than three earned runs which is what he is capable of. He just doesn't go very deep into games. He will keep you in games by giving up three but he won't go deep into games. (He has failed to average six innings a start any of his three years as a starter). It will be interesting to see what we can get for him if we do trade him.

[Spudboy]

Cherrington needs to get on the phone and start looking for teams that are interested in Buchholz/Peavy/Doubront. There is no reason for these guys to be starting over Workman/RDLR. Absolutely none.

 

This^

 

It won't happen though, I suspect.

[jad]

Pitching is not the reason the RS are horrible this season. As long as you are having off-years from Ortiz, Pedroia, dismal years from Nava, Bradley, Drew, and non-existent years from Victorino, Middlebrooks, (and now Sizemore), looking at pitching seems a waste of time.

[Spudboy]

Pitching is not the reason the RS are horrible this season. As long as you are having off-years from Ortiz, Pedroia, dismal years from Nava, Bradley, Drew, and non-existent years from Victorino, Middlebrooks, (and now Sizemore), looking at pitching seems a waste of time.

 

While it is true for the most part that pitching is not the biggest problem for the Sox this year, the guys mentioned may have some market value for teams looking for pitching mid-season for whatever purpose. Those two and Bucholtz are expendable form what we have seen from Workman and DeLarosa, so far.

 

If the Sox can get a decent or better outfield bat, especially RH, the Sox would be irresponsible not to make a move.

[sk7326]

Is it time to "give up" on Peavy? Hard to say. If he is the worst starter on this team, that is a good thing. Run prevention is not our problem. Rotation has largely been fine, and the top of the rotation has been downright very good. Bullpen has been excellent. Having too many starters is something every team would want. Obviously if Doubront can net something in trade that would be awesome - but it is nice to have options. Doubront is the easiest to move of the 3. Peavy is movable with his essentially expiring deal - and he still can be effective.

[jad]

While it is true for the most part that pitching is not the biggest problem for the Sox this year, the guys mentioned may have some market value for teams looking for pitching mid-season for whatever purpose. Those two and Bucholtz are expendable form what we have seen from Workman and DeLarosa, so far.

 

If the Sox can get a decent or better outfield bat, especially RH, the Sox would be irresponsible not to make a move.

 

Well maybe. But a 'decent' bat is not likely to help. They got more than a 'decent' bat completely out of the blue when HOlt showed up--WOW--a .330 hitter!! (far better than anything that will show up on the market now). But what good did it do? Since no one else (with the exception of Napoli) is performing, it's a complete waste of swings. A .280 hitter is not going to turn this team around. As I believe Cherington said a few weeks ago, the only thing that can help is for players to perform as they're capable of performing, and almost none of them are.

[a700hitter]

Well maybe. But a 'decent' bat is not likely to help. They got more than a 'decent' bat completely out of the blue when HOlt showed up--WOW--a .330 hitter!! (far better than anything that will show up on the market now). But what good did it do? Since no one else (with the exception of Napoli) is performing, it's a complete waste of swings. A .280 hitter is not going to turn this team around. As I believe Cherington said a few weeks ago, the only thing that can help is for players to perform as they're capable of performing, and almost none of them are.

The biggest absentees this season have been Pedroia (a mere shell of himself) and Victorino. If they show up and perform, that could kick start this offense, and maybe they don't need an additional bat if Holt is not just a flash in the pan. However, Victorino's body seems to be breaking dow, so I am not sure that he is still an everyday player, and Pedroia has never been the same since his hand issues. He may be permanently damaged or impaired. That can happen with hand injuries. Jim Rice lost a lot of his power as the result of wrist injuries. I think they need a contingency plan if Victorino and Pedroia do not perform as they have in the past.

[curiousd]

But.....I have the following queasy feeling about de-emphasizing Sox pitching. Yanks now forgo luxury tax considerations, so consider possible Yankee rotation next year: (1) Tanaka, probably this year's Cy Young and Rookie of Year(2) Sherzer, 2013 Cy Young (3) David Price, 2012 Cy Young and...(4) Salt in wound....Lester if Sox continue to dilly dally. Would welcome any reasons this disaster might not happen.

[seabeachfred]

But.....I have the following queasy feeling about de-emphasizing Sox pitching. Yanks now forgo luxury tax considerations, so consider possible Yankee rotation next year: (1) Tanaka, probably this year's Cy Young and Rookie of Year(2) Sherzer, 2013 Cy Young (3) David Price, 2012 Cy Young and...(4) Salt in wound....Lester if Sox continue to dilly dally. Would welcome any reasons this disaster might not happen.

 

Great point----and it could happen. Remember Damon? Remember Teixiera? Remember Ellsbury? Prediction.....if the Yankees don't at least win the American League flag this season they will spend like you've never seen before. Don't laugh. It was Red Sox fans and front office being caught with their pants down that we lost Damon and then blew the Teixiera signing all to hell. AND AFTER THE LATTER THE YANKEES WENT ON TO WIN THE WS IN 2009. Is that what we want???????

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

We've won as many championships as the Yankees have since the Teixeira thing and more than they have since they signed Damon. What exactly is the problem here? Oh, and do we need to go over again how the Red Sox were in an unwinnable battle with the Teixeira bidding war?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

On topic, yes. Wave the white flag on this season and start thinking about 2015.

[sk7326]

Great point----and it could happen. Remember Damon? Remember Teixiera? Remember Ellsbury? Prediction.....if the Yankees don't at least win the American League flag this season they will spend like you've never seen before. Don't laugh. It was Red Sox fans and front office being caught with their pants down that we lost Damon and then blew the Teixiera signing all to hell. AND AFTER THE LATTER THE YANKEES WENT ON TO WIN THE WS IN 2009. Is that what we want???????

 

The Yankees had the chance to go all in on shopping THIS season and chose to let one of the ten best players in the league walk. Do not conflate Hank's willingness to do anything to win with his pop's.

[seabeachfred]

We've won as many championships as the Yankees have since the Teixeira thing and more than they have since they signed Damon. What exactly is the problem here? Oh, and do we need to go over again how the Red Sox were in an unwinnable battle with the Teixeira bidding war?

 

No we don't Ells because we were NOT in an unwinnable battle with the Teixiera negotiations. The local Red Sox scout in my area who I know very well said John Henry got cold feet and became very upset when the Boras team asked for a couple of million more and decked in his heels. This was corroborated by another Red Sox scout from Northern California. We could have had Mark, pure and simple. It was only when Henry started balking and Lucchino started bullshitting did Boras start looking towards New York. Up until then the Yankees were not even in one the MT chase. But that's only part of it. They did sign him and they won the next season and anytime the Yankees win a WS it's like a massive s*** storm settling in the neighborhood.

[seabeachfred]

The Yankees had the chance to go all in on shopping THIS season and chose to let one of the ten best players in the league walk. Do not conflate Hank's willingness to do anything to win with his pop's.

 

Yes that happened....very un Yankee like. I would really love to know how the Yankees missed on that one.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

No we don't Ells because we were NOT in an unwinnable battle with the Teixiera negotiations. The local Red Sox scout in my area who I know very well said John Henry got cold feet and became very upset when the Boras team asked for a couple of million more and decked in his heels. This was corroborated by another Red Sox scout from Northern California. We could have had Mark, pure and simple. It was only when Henry started balking and Lucchino started bullshitting did Boras start looking towards New York. Up until then the Yankees were not even in one the MT chase. But that's only part of it. They did sign him and they won the next season and anytime the Yankees win a WS it's like a massive s*** storm settling in the neighborhood.

Do you know what a bidding war is? Do you know how one works? If so, how do you not see that any team (save maybe the Dodgers since new ownership took over) that gets into a bidding war with the Yankees is in an unwinnable battle?

 

And do you really believe that the Yankees just happened to drop in on the Mark Teixeira race at the last minute? That's cute. I don't really know what to say to that, other than "wake up".

 

One more thing, why are you always chomping at the bit to bring other people's opinions into the fray? Why should I care what your scout friend said? A scout's job is to watch players play and then report on them, not to serve as consultants or inside men for big free agent signings.

[seabeachfred]

Do you know what a bidding war is? Do you know how one works? If so, how do you not see that any team (save maybe the Dodgers since new ownership took over) that gets into a bidding war with the Yankees is in an unwinnable battle?

 

And do you really believe that the Yankees just happened to drop in on the Mark Teixeira race at the last minute? That's cute. I don't really know what to say to that, other than "wake up".

 

One more thing, why are you always chomping at the bit to bring other people's opinions into the fray? Why should I care what your scout friend said? A scout's job is to watch players play and then report on them, not to serve as consultants or inside men for big free agent signings.

 

I bring other people's opinions into it because I know and respect them and they can corroborate everything that went down. You have only your opinion and not a damn thing to back it up with. For most of the negotiations there was no bidding war and pundits such as your hero Peter Gammons (wrong again) said Teixeira was headed for Boston. So did even Shaunessy, who usually is more hard boiled and less taken in by things like that. I also don't know of any writer who said the Yankees were even in on it because for most of the negotiations they weren't. I've given proof. You back up what you say. Now if you really want to get chapped I will tell you who had the Yankees pegged to get Teixiera from day one and I don't give a s*** if you don't like it. There were three of us.....Pumpsie Green, Muggah and myself who said Yankees from Day One. You see I know those sneaky bastards, hated them for over 65 years and I remember how they weren't in on the Damon caper either before they swooped in and caught the surprised Red Sox with their asses out and their dicks showing. Read it and laugh or read it and weep, your choice.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I bring other people's opinions into it because I know and respect them and they can corroborate everything that went down. You have only your opinion and not a damn thing to back it up with.

I don't know them, I don't respect them, and their "corroboration" means f***-all because at the end of the day, they don't know s*** and are likely just regurgitating what some other equally-clueless gimoke told them.

 

The bolded part though, that's funny... that's exactly what you have too!

 

For most of the negotiations there was no bidding war and pundits such as your hero Peter Gammons (wrong again) said Teixeira was headed for Boston. So did even Shaunessy, who usually is more hard boiled and less taken in by things like that. I also don't know of any writer who said the Yankees were even in on it because for most of the negotiations they weren't. I've given proof.

You haven't proved a single mother f***ing thing. Journalists get it wrong all the f***ing time. They're professional bullshitters. And they also just repeat what they're told. Do you really f***ing believe that just because "my hero" (?) Gammons and Shaughnessy weren't aware of the Yankees involvement, that makes it fact? If so, you are hopeless. The only thing I have to say to you is pull your head out of the sand.

 

The Yankees were involved with Teixeira the whole way. They had no reason not to be. He was a logical, if not necessary, signing for them all along. Connect the f***ing dots on your own for once, stop piggybacking on the opinions of scouts, journalists, and whoever else you approve of to do your thinking for you.

 

Now if you really want to get chapped I will tell you who had the Yankees pegged to get Teixiera from day one and I don't give a s*** if you don't like it. There were three of us.....Pumpsie Green, Muggah and myself who said Yankees from Day One. You see I know those sneaky bastards, hated them for over 65 years and I remember how they weren't in on the Damon caper either before they swooped in and caught the surprised Red Sox with their asses out and their dicks showing. Read it and laugh or read it and weep, your choice.

What the hell are you talking about?

[seabeachfred]

I don't know them, I don't respect them, and their "corroboration" means f***-all because at the end of the day, they don't know s*** and are likely just regurgitating what some other equally-clueless gimoke told them.

 

The bolded part though, that's funny... that's exactly what you have too!

 

 

You haven't proved a single mother f***ing thing. Journalists get it wrong all the f***ing time. They're professional bullshitters. And they also just repeat what they're told. Do you really f***ing believe that just because "my hero" (?) Gammons and Shaughnessy weren't aware of the Yankees involvement, that makes it fact? If so, you are hopeless. The only thing I have to say to you is pull your head out of the sand.

 

The Yankees were involved with Teixeira the whole way. They had no reason not to be. He was a logical, if not necessary, signing for them all along. Connect the f***ing dots on your own for once, stop piggybacking on the opinions of scouts, journalists, and whoever else you approve of to do your thinking for you.

 

 

What the hell are you talking about?

 

My two pals on the old Sawxheads Board.......as for the other stuff, you are willing to simply reject what people who know a helluva lot more than you do say and simply go on your own accord without any damn proof to back it up. I'd tell you that you're totally full of s*** but you know that already, but I'll be kind about it and say you need more bran in your diet...a hell of a lot more from what I took from reading the s*** you sent me.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

My two pals on the old Sawxheads Board

Tell me why I should even begin to care about what two guys from Sawxheads think.

 

as for the other stuff, you are willing to simply reject what people who know a helluva lot more than you do say and simply go on your own accord without any damn proof to back it up.

Provide some damn proof of your own about the Teixeira thing, or at least some logical reasoning. The word of some random scout or journalist somewhere is just hearsay, and hearsay is useless. My own accord means a hell of a lot more to me than theirs, or yours.

 

I'd tell you that you're totally full of s*** but you know that already, but I'll be kind about it and say you need more bran in your diet...a hell of a lot more from what I took from reading the s*** you sent me.

You need more common sense in your diet.

 

You haven't provided a shred of insight or intelligence on this matter any time you've brought it up, yet you still accuse everyone else of not knowing anything. It's always "my buddy the scout said this" or "some journalist said that". It's hilarious. Just admit that you're in over your head.

[a700hitter]

You are acting like a couple of *******s.

[curiousd]

After last night's second in a row lop sided loss in Seattle it does look like the suggestion starting this thread will come to pass. Dubront was used in long relief and I cannot imagine them starting Peavy again. IMO the Sox better spend enough to get Lester back for next year as number one priority, and make enough of a serious play for Price to at least drive up cost for Yanks.

 

Question for members of the thread who know more about the trading rules than I: : Can the Rays pry young talent out of whoever gets Price or will it be just draft picks at issue? I am now pretty much giving up on this year and hoping Sox move to salvage next year as best they can.

[a700hitter]

Peavy just plain stinks. Get his ass out of here. He will not be here next season and he is providing no help this year. Get rid of him. Give him away to anyone that will take his prorated salary.

[seabeachfred]

I see were all in a fine and chipper mood this morning. Our team will do that to us. Hear Eckersley last night? He pretty much said the Drew signing was not needed and was a bad mistake, and that HE BELIEVES IT DID NEGATIVELY IMPACT BOGAERTS TIMING AND CONFIDENCE?????? HHHMMMMM---I wonder if Ells on this board thinks he is an authoritative figure or doesn't he know what he's talking about either.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Why does it matter what Eckersley thinks? Authoritative figure? Are you high?