Why not keep Ellsbury and Bradley together for years to come?

[redsoxbeatz]

But you are defining the issues in absolute terms which don't matter in this particular case. The Sox will NOT keep Bradley, a super CF cost controlled to boot in LF and PAY for the privilege by virtue of keeping and paying for Ells in CF. If Ells goes to FA under circumstances favorable to him, the Sox will not pay for that privilege and they would be complete dolts if they did. Bradley has much more value to the Sox in CF and they will take full advantage of that value ala' his cost controlled situation and they will let somebody else play the less athletically inclined LF and let somebody else pay Ells to play their CF.

 

By the way, the situation is somewhat exacerbated by the fact that at the end of the day, JBJ is going to turn out to be superior to Ells as a CF. So how idiotic would it be to keep your more skilled CF in LF just because your fans have wet dreams about JBJ and Ells in outfield together long term.

 

Maybe I have wet dreams of Ells in LF/RF and JBJ in CF. Or something.

[Dojji]

Despite the fiasco the last time they tried it there's something to putting Ells in LF. It might allow him to add some thickness that would rebuild his power and buffer him against injury. If Ells could level out as a 25-25 guy, I'd take that and drool.

[jung]

Now your grabbing at straws but I understand. I just don't see it.

 

I don't see it as smart for the FO nor in fact for us to bite on some monster Ells contract if we think the best team they can build will be a team built by using their assets as effectively as they can as it relates to the potential performance of the team on the field.

 

The whole point of having a farm system is to build as much as you can off that farm system, letting go of guys that appear fragile in some sense or that see their promise resolve itself in disappointment or that simply do not provide you with enough value relative to other choices. Ells may not fall into the former categories but if he does go to FA under terms favorable to him he will certainly fall into the latter relative to the Sox. Besides, if the whole issue of trying to build super-teams has not been put to rest by now, I just no longer know what it will take.

 

A "team" is best described as component parts that are as effectively complimentary as possible. Professional teams must deal with the additional component of doing things that make good business sense as well.

 

As for moving Ells to LF, at the point of his reaching FA, I very strongly suspect that Boras and Ells will insist that the Sox will keep him in CF. The Sox would be even dumber to overpay Ells to move him to LF.

 

While the Dodgers are going though their period of spending money foolishly just because they have it and are trying to draw fans back from having endured one of the worst ownership groups in history, I just do not think it wise for a professional sports organization to supplant good judgement and planning with money.

[User Name]

How does the phrase "grabbing at straws" apply in that instance? He was suggesting a plausible scenario which was actually tried by the Red Sox before. All of that positional discussion is mostly nonsense. The only problem here is whether or not the Sox are willing to shell out the dough.

[jung]

Which is my point...they won't nor should be willing to shell out the dough when their cost controlled CF of the future is sitting their right in front of them.

 

"Grabbing at straws" because it would appear that some of us are trying to make argument for whether or should the Sox shell out the dough to keep Ells here with Bradley or that once Ells reaches FA, he would stand for a move to LF anyway. I just don't see it.

[User Name]

They are different issues though. The positional change is one thing, the Red Sox paying him is another.

 

I get the impression that the possibility of Ellsbury staying is a lot more real than most of us think. I don't think he'll ever post 20 HR's again, and if he posts a .300/.360/.450 line with 15 HR's and 40+ SB, he probably won't be able to parlay those numbers into a contract significantly bigger than the one Michael Bourn got, allowing the Sox to be players for him. 2011 is long gone. What matters is what he does in 2013.

 

Whoever says the Sox (or anyone for that matter) should/would pay 20 per for Ellsbury needs to have their head examined.

[jung]

I already qualified my contract/FA discussion by defining it as "terms favorable to him" (Ells). If terms favorable to him are not available, all bets are off. However I do not think he will have to duplicate 2011 to achieve terms favorable to him...not with the Dodgers hanging around.

[User Name]

Except that the Dodger OF is more than full with Kemp/Ethier/Crawford and Puig waiting in the wings and Pederson/Baldwin quickly developing. The "Dodgers will sign him" argument is overplayed. They cannot sign every major free agent, since roster space is, after all, limited.

[jung]

However the Dodgers now set the market. There are now more teams capable of setting the market for players with the Dodgers at the top of the pyramid currently.

 

There is no question that CF is the premier outfield position in baseball. Players that are offensive forces that also have the goods to play in CF really get the long green. Look at the numbers for guys that are no longer cost controlled.

[redsoxbeatz]

Why would Ells care if he plays CF or LF? If he gets paid multi-millions per year & it is completely guaranteed b/c the MLB is bizarre like that, what is the problem!?!?

[User Name]

However the Dodgers now set the market. There are now more teams capable of setting the market for players with the Dodgers at the top of the pyramid currently.

 

There is no question that CF is the premier outfield position in baseball. Players that are offensive forces that also have the goods to play in CF really get the long green. Look at the numbers for guys that are no longer cost controlled.

 

Actually the market for OF with Ellsbury's profile was set by the Red Sox with the Crawford contract. Fast-forward to this year, and look at the Bourn contract (who is essentially Ellsbury with less power but more pure OB ability) and notice that trend being reversed.

 

If Ellsbury doesn't exhibit big power, he's not making big money. it's a simple as that.

[reYoukilis]

But you are defining the issues in absolute terms which don't matter in this particular case. The Sox will NOT keep Bradley, a super CF cost controlled to boot in LF and PAY for the privilege by virtue of keeping and paying for Ells in CF. If Ells goes to FA under circumstances favorable to him, the Sox will not pay for that privilege and they would be complete dolts if they did. Bradley has much more value to the Sox in CF and they will take full advantage of that value ala' his cost controlled situation and they will let somebody else play the less athletically inclined LF and let somebody else pay Ells to play their CF.

 

By the way, the situation is somewhat exacerbated by the fact that at the end of the day, JBJ is going to turn out to be superior to Ells as a CF. So how idiotic would it be to keep your more skilled CF in LF just because your fans have wet dreams about JBJ and Ells in outfield together long term.

 

What if Ells has another great year offensively? That would indicate a pattern of excellence and a good fit, something that may not happen with a replacement, even if the replacement was good in his previous team.

 

My question is, what is Bradley's current contract like, and when does it expire? If Bradley wont get paid lots for awhile I say keep both.

[User Name]

What if Ells has another great year offensively? That would indicate a pattern of excellence and a good fit, something that may not happen with a replacement, even if the replacement was good in his previous team.

 

My question is, what is Bradley's current contract like, and when does it expire? If Bradley wont get paid lots for awhile I say keep both.

 

No it wouldn't. It would demonstrate the ability for excellence, coupled with bursts of "very good play" and a ton of injury problems.

[reYoukilis]

No it wouldn't. It would demonstrate the ability for excellence, coupled with bursts of "very good play" and a ton of injury problems.

 

Well it would lessen the perception that his other great year was a fluke, is what Im saying. Its something to consider in the scheme of things. Also to be considered is his injuries for sure. However if he plays healthily all year, it could put make his injuries seem flukish instead.

 

I feel having previous success in a certain system would make for alot of incentive for both the FO in resigning AND maybe Ells taking a lesser contract.

[SoxSport]

Ells still hasn't shown any power yet. He can't get big bucks without HRs. That said, I like the present OF.

I wonder if Vic and Bradley will switch positions eventually.

[seabeachfred]

IMHO I think the wheels started to come off of Ellsbury's bycycle when Epstein decided to move him to LF before the 2010 season to, as he put it "save his legs". He then got hurt and missed practically the whole season. Who knows what would have happened had he stayed in center. Yes, he might have gotten hurt out there, but those rib injuries? Most likely not. Then they misdiagnosed his injuries and it cost him the whole season. I just think it would take something very special, a great year for the Red Sox as well as a great season from Jacoby for him to resign with us. Let's just hope he gives us a solid year and helps the team recover from the miserable season they had last year and the miserable experience he had with another major injury. Besides, I think Bradley is the real thing.

[redsoxbeatz]

I didn't know where else JBJ was being discussed so I'll post this here. I don't know if anyone reads Grantland.com but is a great website for sports/pop culture fans and an even better website for Boston homers.

 

Quote from the Simmons mailbag:

Q: As a lifetime, long suffering University of South Carolina Gamecock fan, watching JBJ play college ball was amazing. His speed in center, his patience at the plate, and his speed on the base paths turned our baseball team into back-to-back College World Series champs. In an elimination game in 2010 against Oklahoma, he hit a 2 out game-winning single in the bottom of the tenth and won the CWS MVP. In 2011 he came back from an injury just in time for the CWS and helped lead us to a championship. Look up his college highlights and you'll feel your Red Sox undies stiffening as you watch flying catches, game winning hits, and, if you notice how he interacts with his teammates and the overall buffonery. Enjoy.

—Pete Shahid, Charleston, SC

 

SG: This e-mail gave me flashbacks to those NC State and Wisconsin alums gushing about Russell Wilson in my inbox last summer. Could JBJ become baseball's Russell Wilson — one of those absurdly likable athletes who transcends stats, says things like "I don't get nervous to tell you the truth" (an actual JBJ quote), gets better when it matters, and almost seems too good to be true? More parallels: Even though they both succeeded in college on the biggest possible stages, Wilson fell to the third round in 2012 because of his height, and Bradley fell to the 40th pick in 2011 after battling a wrist injury that season … both weren't expected to start before winning over the coaches, making their fan bases swoon and barrelling their way into the starting lineup … both have fantastic sports names … and both caused me to write gushy paragraphs like this one (although at least I didn't commission an illustration of Bradley levitating above cult followers like I did with Wilson).

 

Here's the point: The Red Sox took heat for starting Bradley on Opening Day over sending him down for two weeks, then bringing up him in mid-April so they could delay his free agency for a year. And if they were Tampa Bay or Pittsburgh, I get it — small-market teams should always protect themselves against potential stars fleeing for big bucks as long as they can. But the Red Sox have gobs of money to spend every season, as well as a much bigger immediate dilemma: Their fan base had turned on the owners and couldn't have been less excited about this year's team. That left the Red Sox with two choices.

 

Choice A: Send Bradley down for two weeks, look like cheapskates, weaken this year's team for the first two weeks, derail his momentum after a sparkling spring training.

 

Choice B: Reward Bradley by bringing him up right away, get the fans excited, hope he helps the team get off to a monster start, then ride the ensuing momentum to a "NOBODY BELIEVED IN US!" season that hinges on pitching, defense, chemistry and that 10-3 start (I'm being super-duper-duper optimistic) that never would have happened if they acted like big cheapskate wusses who didn't bring up Bradley right away.

 

For me, that's a no-brainer: The upside (Bradley killing it and the team taking off) far exceeded the downside (losing a year of free-agency control). Let's say that decision cost them $10 million in premature Bradley free-agent money down the road … for God's sake, this is the same team that gave Shane Victorino THIRTY-NINE MILLION over three years. Do you think they care? The Red Sox just wanted to be relevant locally again for anything other than beer and chicken, salary dump trades and newspaper smear campaigns. The mere chance that the 2013 Bradley Experience could rival 1975 Lynn or 1997 Nomar made that risk worth it. So they have to sign him for $130 million in 2019 instead of 2020 … why should Red Sox fans give a flying hot damn? Last time I checked, I wasn't rooting for Tampa Bay.

 

Truth.

 

And the article itself.

[mvp 78]

Bill Simmons is a dope.

[seabeachfred]

I didn't know where else JBJ was being discussed so I'll post this here. I don't know if anyone reads Grantland.com but is a great website for sports/pop culture fans and an even better website for Boston homers.

 

Quote from the Simmons mailbag:

 

 

Truth.

 

And the article itself.

 

Good article redsoxbeatz. From where I sit it is hard to get a handle on things after only four games but so far, so good, and the team is off to its best early start in a few years. With Ortiz out and still not sure when he will be ready to play and how long it will take him to get his timing down against live pitching, Jackie is with us and contributing and I have little doubt he can handle the job. He is a unique talent in that regard. What happens later is anybody's guess but he has given us a spark and right now I am not worried about 2019 but 2013. I don't always agree with Simmons but on this one I think he makes some sense.

[redsoxbeatz]

Thanks seabeachfred! I am glad someone else enjoyed it! I like Simmons a lot but he is not for everyone.

 

Bill Barnwell is a fantastic writer from Grantland.com, too but he is mostly a football writer. So, for you NFL fans out there...

[seabeachfred]

Thanks seabeachfred! I am glad someone else enjoyed it! I like Simmons a lot but he is not for everyone.

 

Bill Barnwell is a fantastic writer from Grantland.com, too but he is mostly a football writer. So, for you NFL fans out there...

 

Simmons get silly sometimes but he can be enjoyable to watch because you know right off the bat that he loves the Red Sox. The Bruins, Celtics and Patriots? I don't care too much for him on that since my teams in those sports are the Ducks, Lakers and Dolphins. He really got my goat in the 2010 NBA Finals with his droning on about the Celts while I was a nervous nelly hoping my Lakers could win those last two games in LA.

 

One place where I really dug Simmons was on the first 30 of 30 show when the feature was called "Four Days in October", those days where our team made that magnificent comeback from down 0-3 to best the Yanks four straight. His partner at the bar in that show was this Lenny character who played the uncle on Fever Pitch. If you don't have this dvd, get it. It's a hoot.