2013 Spring Training

[BSN07]

I wasn't defending myself at all. Kings don't have to do that. I was just curious about these fans who you think are miserable when their teams win. It is an absurd notion to me, so I asked for some names to be attached. No names came back in response beyond a reference to talk radio callers, so I will just conclude that my assumption was corrct that it is an absurd notion.

 

I don't think they are miserable when their team wins. But like most fans winning it all doesn't happen every year. SO there end up being secondary things that give you enjoyment as a fan of your team when winning it all is no longer an option. Like myself for instance, I start every year with the hope of a Championship(even though I understand it's not likely). At some point during the season it will become clear that the team is going to contend or they are not, either by personal opinion or sheer math. Once the chance to win it all ends, me personally I tend to focus on the prospects, casually look ahead to free agency. And that's where I get my enjoyment from the game when my team can't win it all.

 

The ones I spoke of earlier start every year thinking the team will fail. Their secondary enjoyment comes from being able to point fingers and thump their chests and say "haaa I told you so". In the instances the team actually wins or makes a deep run in the playoffs(whatever your personal bar of success is) they are happy. But they are quick to move on and call it luck and get right back to what the holes are in the team going forward.

 

It's just who they are, every fanbase has them. Just like every fan base has fans like me, or fans that are complete homers and so on and so forth. I think a lot of arguments start around here because people forget that just because we root for the same team it doesn't make us the exact same type of fans.

 

I think it would do us all some good to occasionally remind ourselves of this so when someone new pops in we all don't look like a bunch of douche bags bickering back and forth Not saying we all should agree all the time, just some arguments are just and some are just bored mud slinging that make all parties involved look ridiculous, me included.

[VA Sox Fan]

We have had some good baseball conversation, and people like Spitball started what I thought would be a really good thread for pure baseball discussion, but the "Strategy" thread has gotten less interest than I expected.

 

BTW: Bard looked like 2012 Bard yesterday. Walk and a HBP and 3 runs. Anyone get info on his velocity?

 

Peter Abe didn't mention his velocity:

 

Daniel Bard, who had not allowed a run this spring, had a rough seventh inning. He gave up three runs on two hits, a hit batter, a walk, and a balk. He said he was too late making an adjustment in his delivery. The balk, which was supposed to be a pickoff play at third base, cost Bard a run. “There was a little miscommunication on that," said manager John Farrell. "I’m not putting that on him." Bard also opened a cut on the base of his right thumb, the result of the fingernail on his index finger digging as he releases the ball. By the time the inning ended, he had blood all over the side of his uniform pants. Bard had tried super glue (something many pitchers use) to close the cut earlier in the week, but it opened up.

[BSN07]

We have had some good baseball conversation, and people like Spitball started what I thought would be a really good thread for pure baseball discussion, but the "Strategy" thread has gotten less interest than I expected.

 

BTW: Bard looked like 2012 Bard yesterday. Walk and a HBP and 3 runs. Anyone get info on his velocity?

 

Velocity is very important with Bard as 97mph wildness is better then 92mph wildness. But we can't just look at velocity in ST. He may have had a specific assignment to work on for this outting. We have to look at the pitch selection too. It could be a case where he was working on his secondary stuff and it was erratic(probably the reason for an assignment if there was one). If it was all FB's in the low 90's it's a bit more worrying.

[a700hitter]

I don't think they are miserable when their team wins. But like most fans winning it all doesn't happen every year. SO there end up being secondary things that give you enjoyment as a fan of your team when winning it all is no longer an option. Like myself for instance, I start every year with the hope of a Championship(even though I understand it's not likely). At some point during the season it will become clear that the team is going to contend or they are not, either by personal opinion or sheer math. Once the chance to win it all ends, me personally I tend to focus on the prospects, casually look ahead to free agency. And that's where I get my enjoyment from the game when my team can't win it all.

 

The ones I spoke of earlier start every year thinking the team will fail. Their secondary enjoyment comes from being able to point fingers and thump their chests and say "haaa I told you so". In the instances the team actually wins or makes a deep run in the playoffs(whatever your personal bar of success is) they are happy. But they are quick to move on and call it luck and get right back to what the holes are in the team going forward.

 

It's just who they are, every fanbase has them. Just like every fan base has fans like me, or fans that are complete homers and so on and so forth. I think a lot of arguments start around here because people forget that just because we root for the same team it doesn't make us the exact same type of fans.

 

I think it would do us all some good to occasionally remind ourselves of this so when someone new pops in we all don't look like a bunch of douche bags bickering back and forth Not saying we all should agree all the time, just some arguments are just and some are just bored mud slinging that make all parties involved look ridiculous, me included.

If I was interested in a discussion where people only agreed with me, I would have to start talking to myself.

[BSN07]

Peter Abe didn't mention his velocity:

 

Daniel Bard, who had not allowed a run this spring, had a rough seventh inning. He gave up three runs on two hits, a hit batter, a walk, and a balk. He said he was too late making an adjustment in his delivery. The balk, which was supposed to be a pickoff play at third base, cost Bard a run. “There was a little miscommunication on that," said manager John Farrell. "I’m not putting that on him." Bard also opened a cut on the base of his right thumb, the result of the fingernail on his index finger digging as he releases the ball. By the time the inning ended, he had blood all over the side of his uniform pants. Bard had tried super glue (something many pitchers use) to close the cut earlier in the week, but it opened up.

 

Well that helps enlighten the whole situation a bit more. Pitching with a cut on your hand blows, It's like sticking your finger in a fire every pitch.

[redsoxfan3]

We have had some good baseball conversation, and people like Spitball started what I thought would be a really good thread for pure baseball discussion, but the "Strategy" thread has gotten less interest than I expected.

 

BTW: Bard looked like 2012 Bard yesterday. Walk and a HBP and 3 runs. Anyone get info on his velocity?

 

I think his fastball was right around 95-96. I am not 100% sure on that. I actually looked that up yesterday after the game trying to figure it out. It is hard to get anything on Spring Training stats when it comes to velocity. The good thing is that I think his fastball has been in the mid 90's all spring as opposed to the lower 90's like he pitched last year.

 

Also, his three runs yesterday were the first three runs he has given up all Spring in his six innings pitched. The positive is that he did get into some trouble and ended up finishing out the inning. I think the 2012 Bard would have seen things get worse and not been able to get himself out of the inning. Not that I like to make excuses for players, but he did also have a open cut on his thumb that kept bleeding. He had to keep wiping it off. I know it was not a big deal, but I am wondering if that kind of was distracting his focus. I think Bard is definitely in an okay position to start out the season in non-pressure situations to eat some innings. If he does a good job with that, then gradually work him back into some tougher pressure situations. I am still not comfortable with him pitching in the 7th or 8th in a close game.

[VA Sox Fan]

I don't think they are miserable when their team wins. But like most fans winning it all doesn't happen every year. SO there end up being secondary things that give you enjoyment as a fan of your team when winning it all is no longer an option. Like myself for instance, I start every year with the hope of a Championship(even though I understand it's not likely). At some point during the season it will become clear that the team is going to contend or they are not, either by personal opinion or sheer math. Once the chance to win it all ends, me personally I tend to focus on the prospects, casually look ahead to free agency. And that's where I get my enjoyment from the game when my team can't win it all.

 

The ones I spoke of earlier start every year thinking the team will fail. Their secondary enjoyment comes from being able to point fingers and thump their chests and say "haaa I told you so". In the instances the team actually wins or makes a deep run in the playoffs(whatever your personal bar of success is) they are happy. But they are quick to move on and call it luck and get right back to what the holes are in the team going forward.

 

It's just who they are, every fanbase has them. Just like every fan base has fans like me, or fans that are complete homers and so on and so forth. I think a lot of arguments start around here because people forget that just because we root for the same team it doesn't make us the exact same type of fans.

 

I think it would do us all some good to occasionally remind ourselves of this so when someone new pops in we all don't look like a bunch of douche bags bickering back and forth Not saying we all should agree all the time, just some arguments are just and some are just bored mud slinging that make all parties involved look ridiculous, me included.

 

Good post! :thumbsup:

[redsoxfan3]

Chien-Ming Wang is 'drawing interest' according to MLBTR. I am afraid that Cherington is going to try to sign him to a minor league deal as pitching depth that he has supposedly been looking for. I guess that it would not be a big deal, let's just hope that if we do sign him that he does not get to pitch for us in the majors. Also, we have not been linked to being interested in him, this is just pure speculation on my part.

[Dojji]

Honestly there's worse ideas out there. Chien-Ming Wang's career died in 2008, but he was an adequate pitcher in a depth role as recently as 2011 (4.04 ERA in about 60 innings over 11 starts with the Nationals).

 

If I was looking for even a 5th starter, I wouldn't even touch Wang, but for depth? That's what guys like that are on this earth for.

[Palodios]

Things seem relatively civil now but once Opening Day rolls around, the gloves are gonna come off like they always do. Each year here is a civil war between the optimists and the naysayers.

 

Welcome back. It does get pretty funny when the civil war really starts to explode. People keep telling me that I'm not one of the "ballwashers" so to speak, and I really need to start working on that.

[jacksonianmarch]

Chien-Ming Wang is 'drawing interest' according to MLBTR. I am afraid that Cherington is going to try to sign him to a minor league deal as pitching depth that he has supposedly been looking for. I guess that it would not be a big deal, let's just hope that if we do sign him that he does not get to pitch for us in the majors. Also, we have not been linked to being interested in him, this is just pure speculation on my part.

 

You're moaning about CMW as a minor league option? The guy did win 19 games twice and is now 3 yrs removed from arm surgery. If he can even get into the low 90s again, he'd have a shot at being a worthwhile pitcher in the bigs again. That sinker is nasty. I hope the Yankees sign him. Cannot hurt

[Palodios]

You're moaning about CMW as a minor league option? The guy did win 19 games twice and is now 3 yrs removed from arm surgery. If he can even get into the low 90s again, he'd have a shot at being a worthwhile pitcher in the bigs again. That sinker is nasty. I hope the Yankees sign him. Cannot hurt

 

CMW is everything a team should want as a depth option. That being said, he's a lot like Dice-k. 32 year old right-handers who saw success for 2 years in the late 2000s, but have otherwise been incredibly injured and or ineffective.

[jung]

Red Sox/ Yanks today at 1:05 Eastern carried on ESPN live and apparently MLB Network tonight on a delay.

[NYlove4BoSox]

@PeteAbe tweeted that Farrell hinted that we could seeing Nava batting in the 2 hole against righties...

 

Intriguing or not?

[BSN07]

I agree, Wang is just the kind of guy your looking for when searching for pitching depth. If he is on board with a minor league deal then I'm all for it.

[Palodios]

@PeteAbe tweeted that Farrell hinted that we could seeing Nava batting in the 2 hole against righties...

 

Intriguing or not?

 

Nava had a .380 OBP versus righties last year. As long as you don't put someone fast like Ells/Victorino behind him, it makes plenty of sense.

[BSN07]

Couple loud outs from Ross and Sweeney.

[jung]

Yanks going station to station on Felix in the 2nd inning. As I mentioned last night, the Sox are facing a higher % of better teams in these last 11 games than they have by far this spring and frankly it is showing a bit with the Orioles yesterday and the Yanks today.

[jacksonianmarch]

Nuno is a nice hidden gem who we've turned into someone who can provide depth.

[iortiz]

Only I can say is that this kid Bradley should take a spot in the roster.

[BSN07]

Only I can say is that this kid Bradley should take a spot in the roster.

 

He really has been impressive this spring. I'm looking forward to seeing him in Boston whenever he gets there.

[Station 13]

Middlebrooks been killing the ball the past few weeks after a scare on a check swing. He's scorching the ball to right center that will be HR in many AL east parks.

[iortiz]

He really has been impressive this spring. I'm looking forward to seeing him in Boston whenever he gets there.

 

It's early but IMO kid is natural. Would be a shame if they didn't him a shot, mostly since this is likely another "bridge" year... Again.

[seabeachfred]

I don't think they are miserable when their team wins. But like most fans winning it all doesn't happen every year. SO there end up being secondary things that give you enjoyment as a fan of your team when winning it all is no longer an option. Like myself for instance, I start every year with the hope of a Championship(even though I understand it's not likely). At some point during the season it will become clear that the team is going to contend or they are not, either by personal opinion or sheer math. Once the chance to win it all ends, me personally I tend to focus on the prospects, casually look ahead to free agency. And that's where I get my enjoyment from the game when my team can't win it all.

 

The ones I spoke of earlier start every year thinking the team will fail. Their secondary enjoyment comes from being able to point fingers and thump their chests and say "haaa I told you so". In the instances the team actually wins or makes a deep run in the playoffs(whatever your personal bar of success is) they are happy. But they are quick to move on and call it luck and get right back to what the holes are in the team going forward.

 

It's just who they are, every fanbase has them. Just like every fan base has fans like me, or fans that are complete homers and so on and so forth. I think a lot of arguments start around here because people forget that just because we root for the same team it doesn't make us the exact same type of fans.

 

I think it would do us all some good to occasionally remind ourselves of this so when someone new pops in we all don't look like a bunch of douche bags bickering back and forth Not saying we all should agree all the time, just some arguments are just and some are just bored mud slinging that make all parties involved look ridiculous, me included.

 

We all have our moments BSN and I can include myself as one of the guilty parties from time to time, but your post speaks volumes about while we all love our Red Sox, we show it in different ways. I posted something similar last week. I guess it is just the fact that we root and react differently from each other. I wish I could take it easy as you, Bellhorn, even mvp and others take things in stride, but I was warned by my good friend and neighbor Dick Pedrotti back in 2000 when I told him I had become a Red Sox fan after going to a game at Fenway. He told me my personality might not be conducive to rooting for such a team when things get tough. Boy, was he right.

 

For the record, Dick was a bonus baby with the Red Sox in 1951 and if his shoulder hadn't gone out on him might have been either the shortstop or third baseman in the 50's into the 60's. The guy was a fantastic hitter at Pasadena City College and the Sox were very high on him. Yes, he still roots for the Red Sox and tries to keep me in line.

[seabeachfred]

I think his fastball was right around 95-96. I am not 100% sure on that. I actually looked that up yesterday after the game trying to figure it out. It is hard to get anything on Spring Training stats when it comes to velocity. The good thing is that I think his fastball has been in the mid 90's all spring as opposed to the lower 90's like he pitched last year.

 

Also, his three runs yesterday were the first three runs he has given up all Spring in his six innings pitched. The positive is that he did get into some trouble and ended up finishing out the inning. I think the 2012 Bard would have seen things get worse and not been able to get himself out of the inning. Not that I like to make excuses for players, but he did also have a open cut on his thumb that kept bleeding. He had to keep wiping it off. I know it was not a big deal, but I am wondering if that kind of was distracting his focus. I think Bard is definitely in an okay position to start out the season in non-pressure situations to eat some innings. If he does a good job with that, then gradually work him back into some tougher pressure situations. I am still not comfortable with him pitching in the 7th or 8th in a close game.

 

RSF3, living down in Fort Myers, have you attended any ST games this March? If so what are your general impressions. Can we turn the corner and put last season deep in our rear view mirror. As for Bard, I think he should start the season down in Pawtucket. I'm not sure he has conquered whatever brought him down last season, including his ill advised wish to be a starting pitcher.

[Dojji]

As for me, you know when I'm starting to feel good about the team because I'm here. Posting. I'm a fan, I'll never go away entirely, but I can only bear so much disappointment and frustration, so sometimes I manage to give myself little breaks, watch two teams I don't care that much about or something. It's refreshing.

 

And of course it should be obvious to anyone who chats with me that one of my pleasures is seeing someone nobody expected, come in and perform well out of the blue. And trying to predict who the next one might be.

 

That said, my work schedule (did I mention I'd finally found a job? yaaaaay!) has me working evenings, so I donno how much baseball I'm even going to be able to watch this year except on weekends, and I've been so tired weekends I've barely had the energy to lift my head. Hooray for baseball on the radio. So I'll be kind of divorced from the hype of the media and forming my own opinions based on what I can observe. Expect them to diverge radically from the group as a result. Not that that's all that unusual for me.

[seabeachfred]

Welcome back. It does get pretty funny when the civil war really starts to explode. People keep telling me that I'm not one of the "ballwashers" so to speak, and I really need to start working on that.

 

Geez Palodios, do you really think you're a ballwasher? No damn way!!!! Look, you bring a very refreshing and open mind to the things you post---and I'm not blowing smoke up your rear end when I say this. As a matter of fact, you would be an excellent middle man to referee when the two camps go at it.

 

When you take someone to task you do it in a classy manner and I can't think of too many people on this board I hold in higher esteem. When you give me the business I know I probably have it coming. Just keep rolling along.....I will also bet that on this issue most of the posters agree with me.

[seabeachfred]

I agree, Wang is just the kind of guy your looking for when searching for pitching depth. If he is on board with a minor league deal then I'm all for it.

 

So do I BSN. I say he is worth a shot. Besides, who else is out there that could give us a little extra depth that we all know we will need before this season is done?

[seabeachfred]

He really has been impressive this spring. I'm looking forward to seeing him in Boston whenever he gets there.

 

You coach and I coached......My opinion is that Bradley is the real thing. He stays very well inside the ball, has a short and compact swing and keeps his head low into the strike zone. He is going to be a terrific player for us. If we can start him as a regular we should give him a look. However, not a platoon. This guy has got to play.

[seabeachfred]

He really has been impressive this spring. I'm looking forward to seeing him in Boston whenever he gets there.

 

You coach and I coached......My opinion is that Bradley is the real thing. He stays very well inside the ball, has a short and compact swing and keeps his head low into the strike zone. He is going to be a terrific player for us. If we can start him as a regular we should give him a look. However, not a platoon. This guy has got to play.

 

OTOH, I believe I was right on Mauro Gomez. He stinks to high heaven.