Is there a change coming in roster/line-up construction?

[Spitball]

Earl Weaver's early 1970s Orioles advocated going base to base and waiting on the three run home run. Billy Martin's late 1970s Oakland Athletics and Whitey Herzog's 1980s Cardinals ran, ran, ran. The 1990s brought PEDs and a return to Earl Weaver's philosophy. The early 2000s saw Money Ball with smaller market teams.

 

I have followed baseball for a long time. The 1960 and 1970s saw the NL dominate with fast offensive/defensive teams on Astro-turf. The Big Red Machine was a poster team for the movement. The AL Royals were there, also. Trends change and successful teams recognize the changes before they become common practices.

 

2012 and recent years have seen the A's, Reds, Rays, Nationals, and other smaller market teams develop into forces. The Rangers and Yankees were out of the playoffs early. The Red Sox and Angels were out of the play-offs all together.

 

Is the current winning trend about developing home grown talent that can be controlled for longer and less expensive periods?

 

 

 

Is there a trending change that the Red Sox should recognize, or should they continue to use the same methods

[Dojji]

No, it's not a trend. It's *the* way to win. Always has been. people love the big acquisition, but it doesn't mean squat without a solid homegrown core. Every team that's ever done any sustained winning did it based on that core.

 

And the strategy of how you try to win is usually based rather strongly on what you can muster for a core. If you're more speed than power, you try to build a team around your speedy core, if the reverse is true, you build that way.

[Palodios]

The major shift is that with the extra wild card spot, everyone believes that their team is a contender. What the Red Sox need to do is be careful with their moves in the light of that reality.

 

With so many GMs claiming they're only one or two pieces away, talented major league players have gotten incredibly expensive. Two elite prospects for Dickey? A pile for Shields? Trevor Bauer for Choo-- seriously? Not to mention the retarded deal the Dodgers gave the Red Sox for the sole purpose of picking up Adrian Gonzalez.

 

The Red Sox stocked up on reliable, affordable talent this offseason. If they aren't playing very well, that talent is going to get shipped out pretty quickly to the most desperate team that comes along.

[BSN07]

The major shift is that with the extra wild card spot, everyone believes that their team is a contender. What the Red Sox need to do is be careful with their moves in the light of that reality.

 

With so many GMs claiming they're only one or two pieces away, talented major league players have gotten incredibly expensive. Two elite prospects for Dickey? A pile for Shields? Trevor Bauer for Choo-- seriously? Not to mention the retarded deal the Dodgers gave the Red Sox for the sole purpose of picking up Adrian Gonzalez.

 

The Red Sox stocked up on reliable, affordable talent this offseason. If they aren't playing very well, that talent is going to get shipped out pretty quickly to the most desperate team that comes along.

 

And that about sums up how I feel about the team. Either they will contend or they will start shipping guys out for prospects. And I'm ok with that. For me it will be interesting either way.

[Behindenemylines]

And that about sums up how I feel about the team. Either they will contend or they will start shipping guys out for prospects. And I'm ok with that. For me it will be interesting either way.

 

I agree that if the 2013 version of the Sox blows up then they will start bringing the kids up and get what they can for some of the older pieces. If the 2013 version competes then that is great, and if they tank and the kids get to play I can live with that. Either way it beats the crap that we watched in 2012.

[VA Sox Fan]

Predicting the Red Sox roster, version 2

 

Posted by Peter Abraham, Globe Staff March 11, 2013 09:55 AM

 

 

FORT MYERS, Fla. — Now that there have been some injuries, let's take another look at what the roster may look like on Opening Day.

 

As a refresher, here is what we predicted on Feb. 27. Obviously there have been some developments since.

 

ROTATION (5)

LHP Jon Lester

RHP Clay Buchholz

RHP Ryan Dempster

LHP Felix Doubront

RHP John Lackey

 

Breakdown: No changes here since the first version. Doubront is back in the rotation and seems to be holding onto his spot despite a shaky start. He is out of minor league options, so the Red Sox can't just cavalierly replace him. Plus he was pretty good last season.

 

BULLPEN (7)

RHP Joel Hanrahan

RHP Andrew Bailey

RHP Junichi Tazawa

RHP Koji Uehara

LHP Andrew Miller

RHP Clayton Mortensen

RHP Alfredo Aceces

 

Breakdown: LHPs Craig Breslow (shoulder) and Franklin Morales (back) seem destined for the disabled list. Breslow is a lock at this point as he has yet to throw off a mound. Morales appeared in one game before his back pain started. The final two spots will come down to Mortensen, Aceves and Daniel Bard. Mortensen and Aceves are a bit redundant in that they are multi-inning relievers. But Mortensen has a funky delivery that sets him apart from the rest of the relievers while Aceves has late-game experience. Bard has minor league options, so the Red Sox could drop him down and protect their depth. Uehara, though righthanded, has been death on lefties in his career. So the Sox can survive until Morales and Breslow return.

 

LINEUP (9)

CF Jacoby Ellsbury

2B Dustin Pedroia

DH Mike Napoli

LF Jonny Gomes

3B Will Middlebrooks

RF Shane Victorino

SS Stephen Drew

C Jarrod Saltalamacchia

1B Mike Carp

 

Breakdown: Now that David Ortiz appears headed for the disabled list, a lineup that needs power looks a lot weaker. Carp provides a steady glove at first and could add a little power. Keeping Ryan Lavarnway is another possibility. If the Sox rolled the dice with Jackie Bradley, that would be a surprise.

 

BENCH (4)C David Ross

1B-OF Daniel Nava

2B-SS-3B Pedro Ciriaco

RF-CF-LF Ryan Sweeney

 

Breakdown: The loss of Ortiz affects the bench, too. The Sox could keep slugger Mauro Gomez, who is basically a DH because of his below-average defensive skills. Or they could try and stay versatile with Nava and Sweeney. That would allow for Gomes (or even Victorino) to DH on occasion. Lots of possibilities here.

 

What do you think the roster should be? Please leave a comment.

[BSN07]

That's almost how I see it shaping up thus far. I think Bard makes the team and there could be a trade of Aceves or someone from the BP for a bat to help if Ortiz is out for an extended amount of time. But I wouldn't be surprised if Bard just started out the year in AAA.

[Palodios]

Is Mike Carp actually superior defensively to Gomez? The stats I've seen show Carp to be pretty mediocre with a glove.

[BSN07]

Is Mike Carp actually superior defensively to Gomez? The stats I've seen show Carp to be pretty mediocre with a glove.

 

No idea, I haven't seen the guy play that much. I would have thought Overbay would be in the lead for 1B, but who knows.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Is Mike Carp actually superior defensively to Gomez? The stats I've seen show Carp to be pretty mediocre with a glove.

 

Carp can play OF as well, so his versatility is pretty valuable.

 

Plus, he had an OPS+ of 125 in 2011, when he was playing in Seattle. Hit 12 HR in 79 games, which is actually very good power, especially playing 1/2 of your games at SafeCo. And he hit 5 of his 12 HR at SafeCo, so it's not like he was launching them in Texas and sucking wind in Seattle.

 

I would probably go with Carp over Gomez. Carp has surprising pop and versatility to play 1B/LF, and enough of a stick to DH if needed (though I think we'd see Napoli DH, Carp at 1B if that were the case).

[Palodios]

Carp can play OF as well, so his versatility is pretty valuable.

 

Plus, he had an OPS+ of 125 in 2011, when he was playing in Seattle. Hit 12 HR in 79 games, which is actually very good power, especially playing 1/2 of your games at SafeCo. And he hit 5 of his 12 HR at SafeCo, so it's not like he was launching them in Texas and sucking wind in Seattle.

 

I would probably go with Carp over Gomez. Carp has surprising pop and versatility to play 1B/LF, and enough of a stick to DH if needed (though I think we'd see Napoli DH, Carp at 1B if that were the case).

 

Mike Carp is Jeremy Hermida all over again. No glove, no speed, mediocre hitting left handed outfielder with mild power who strikes out a ton. Both have had one solid season, which was helped out considerably by good a good BABIP. He's also hitting .200 in spring training.

[mvp 78]

I'd go: Overbay, Carp, then Gomez as a last resort.

 

Can Carp be sent to AAA without being put through waivers?

[BSN07]

I'd go: Overbay, Carp, then Gomez as a last resort.

 

Can Carp be sent to AAA without being put through waivers?

 

Is he really good enough to worry if someone claims him or not?

[mvp 78]

Is he really good enough to worry if someone claims him or not?

 

Just think his upside is higher than an old Overbay.

[Dojji]

Given the choice between Overbay, Carp and Gomez, I still take Rolen.

[jung]

Overbay has actually looked "older" than I thought he would and I don't mean grey hairs either.

[seabeachfred]

Given the choice between Overbay, Carp and Gomez, I still take Rolen.

 

I'm not touching that one Dojii with a hot poker iron, though, truth be told, I might be convinced to take Rolen over those other three as well. I want no part of Gomez, and Overbay looks even older than his age and I wonder how much he has left in his tank. Carp fascinated me because of his power but Pal threw ice cold water on that when he mentioned him in the same breath as Hermida. One of him was enough.

 

It all comes down to when Ortiz is going to be ready to play. With the heels, achilles and potential strain to the hammies he could be out for awhile. Then we would face a quandry. Frankly, I would like to hear how David is progressing a few days before the start of the regular season. Then we would know which way to go---what we have, sign someone, maybe trade for something better than what we've got if there is any such animal out there.

[seabeachfred]

That's almost how I see it shaping up thus far. I think Bard makes the team and there could be a trade of Aceves or someone from the BP for a bat to help if Ortiz is out for an extended amount of time. But I wouldn't be surprised if Bard just started out the year in AAA.

 

I don't like the idea of Gomes hitting fourth. I would put Pedroia third, Napoli fourth and Middlebrooks fifth and take a chance on Victorino in the second hole. More speed at the top and so many people have told me I'm wrong about Shane that I figured what the hell, maybe seven or eight people know more about this guy than I do.

[mvp 78]

Overbay has actually looked "older" than I thought he would and I don't mean grey hairs either.

 

Carp hadn't looked much better. Overbay isn't a full time player anymore. Just think he could provide a solid veteran presence to start the season till Papi comes back.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Yeah that lineup that Abe posted seems dumb, having Gomes hit 4. I'd much rather see Ells-Vic-Pedey-Nap-WMB-Drew-Gomes-Salty/Ross-Carp.

[jung]

The 4 hole is not just any old lineup spot. If Farrell puts Gomez there in a Spring game, he might just want to see how he responds to the 4 hole, especially with a runner or runners on. Does he choke on it, flail away three times and sit down? Does he handle it well?

[Palodios]

Who was he batting against? Gomes hit .980 against lefties last year-- maybe Farrell is probably trying to see if he can be the equivalent of a #4 hitter in that spot.

[SCM33]

Id rather see Gomez or Lavarnway playing 1B than Carp or Overbay.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I remember worrying every time Overbay came up against the Sox. He was one of those guys who seemed to kill Boston no matter how he did against the rest of the league during the season. He reminded me of Frank Catalanotto or Vernon Wells. Blue Jays who just killed every at bat against the Sox.

[seabeachfred]

I remember worrying every time Overbay came up against the Sox. He was one of those guys who seemed to kill Boston no matter how he did against the rest of the league during the season. He reminded me of Frank Catalanotto or Vernon Wells. Blue Jays who just killed every at bat against the Sox.

 

I remember that Overbay too Youk, but the latest editions of this Overbay bears no resemblance to that one. This was is a washed up and dried out prune. If he has anything left in the tank would surprise the hell out of me. I only wish Lavarnway would get off the dime, start hitting as he did back in 2011 and force his way into the lineup. And, please, don't mention Nava who is supposed to be given a whirl at first. He is a total waste.