9/17 @ Rays...

[jung]

I think Mortenson might have left his game in the bullpen tonight. Not sure how many he has thrown out here on the mound but must have thrown 50 or so in the bullpen warming up.

 

This is about as late in a game as I have seen Mortenson as well as V has not used him late or even with a lead that often.

[DocHolliday]

It was only a matter of time before the Rays had a collapse like this down the stretch. Their offensive output over the last few seasons has always been putrid, but went through these types of stretches mid season and for shorter lengths of time.

 

For all of the times they have tortured us since 2008, winning this series can serve as some kind of consolation prize. The next order of business will be to knock the Yankees out of the playoffs who, mind you, completely bent over backwards for the Rays at the end of last season. There's no excuse for giving up a 7 run lead with 6 outs to play whether or not you have already made the playoffs.

[jung]

We have been touting the Sox bullpen of late but I still don't see much when it comes to a guy that can come in and put out a fire. Ya' we have guys that can start clean innings coming out our butt but guys that can actually put out a fire.....that seems to be a different story.

 

While we want to plug a bunch of these guys in for next season, I still think that true fireman skill set is something that this group lacks.

[jung]

The Rays are a classic example for how you can survive more times than not with pitching even if you can't hit but won't survive all that often if you can hit but can't pitch.

 

Even with what looks like a collapse were it not for the resurrected Baltimore Phoenix's (Orioles) and the A's and even to some extent the rebuilt Angels the Rays would be much more a part of this race than they appear to be even with putrid fielding AND putrid hitting.

[Station 13]

Tazawa has thrown 80 innings already. He may blow out his elbow again at the rate he is being used.

[jung]

I can never for the life of me figure V out. He puts the shift on for Scott here with a runner on....while not in scoring position, still a bit of a risky move....last night with nobody on (when there is no question but that you should put the shift on) V does not put the shift on for Scott who promptly hit the ball right through were the shifted SS would have been, eventually scoring.

 

At least, they got the out here.

[jung]

I can never for the life of me figure V out. He puts the shift on for Scott here with a runner on....while not in scoring position, still a bit of a risky move....last night with nobody on (when there is no question but that you should put the shift on) V does not put the shift on for Scott who promptly hit the ball right through were the shifted SS would have been, eventually scoring.

 

At least, they got the out here.

[jung]

Notice that while this is still a game, the Rays "crowd" has already thinned out from what it was. The place is a real ghost town now.

 

This just does not appear to be a baseball town. There must be some deserving community somewhere that will support ML baseball better than this.

[jung]

I am beginning to conclude that Madden is not that brilliant after all. I know he has got extra hands in the pen here due to September call ups but this is ridiculous.

[DocHolliday]

The Rays are a classic example for how you can survive more times than not with pitching even if you can't hit but won't survive all that often if you can hit but can't pitch.

 

Even with what looks like a collapse were it not for the resurrected Baltimore Phoenix's (Orioles) and the A's and even to some extent the rebuilt Angels the Rays would be much more a part of this race than they appear to be even with putrid fielding AND putrid hitting.

 

Fair assessment.

 

As for next season, I don't see a whole lot changing - in fact I see the league becoming even more competitive. The Orioles and A's will bring the core of their teams back for next year. The Yankees will continue to get older with their core of players. The Rangers will probably lose Hamilton and Napoli to FA while Michael Young and Adrian Beltre are a year older. And the Rays will have to decide whether to pick up Shields option (expensive for them) or lose their number 2 pitcher to FA.

 

Without even mentioning the central teams and teams that should improve next season with better health and/or pending offseason changes (Blue Jays, Red Sox, Angels), next year should be very similar to the races we are seeing now.

[a700hitter]

I am beginning to conclude that Madden is not that brilliant after all. I know he has got extra hands in the pen here due to September call ups but this is ridiculous.

He's an idiot. IDK how he got the genius reputation. The guy's moves are idiotic, but he has been fortunate to have teams with good pitching so they have been competitive. Walking Ciriaco the other night to pitch to Ells was typical of his stupid moves.

[jung]

The Sox and Spanks have carried this aging stars thing to far. Both teams are suffering from the same malady....hanging on to aging stars as a nod to their fan bases as much as anything else while in reality, those same aging stars are more prone to injury and less likely to come back from injury once they go on the shelf. Both teams have grown entirely to old.

 

The Sox might have gotten a leg up on getting back to more team balance out of necessity. However at least in recent history, the Spanks have seemed to act more aggressively than the Sox have with regard to personnel. The Spanks might catch up quickly.

 

I also agree that the A's will likely not turn out to be a one season wonder nor will the O's and the Angels will likely rebound from what is shaping up to be a disappointing season for them.

 

While i think the Sox will do much to reshape this team going forward, the truth is that the rest of the AL has gotten much tougher. That was true going into this season though many wanted to discount that factor. That will remain a key element in the coming season as well I suspect. The Sox will get better. Will they get enough better in the short run. Probably not. Not at all convinced that 2013 turns out much different than 2012 and not at all convinced that the Sox should try a one year turnaround in the first place. The balance of power seems to have shifted to the AL West for that matter.

[NativeBostonian]

Notice that while this is still a game, the Rays "crowd" has already thinned out from what it was. The place is a real ghost town now.

 

This just does not appear to be a baseball town. There must be some deserving community somewhere that will support ML baseball better than this.

 

It's not a baseball town. It's one thing to be a fair weather fan it's another to not give a s*** when your team is in a wild-card race.

[jung]

I never bought the "genius of Madden" ******** in the first place. In fact both so called genius managers are simply not all that impressive. Managers are not unimportant. However I think we all to often overlay on baseball managers the kind of criticality that you see with football coaches and the two things are simply not comparable.

 

I suspect that the only difference between "genius" V and "genius" Madden is that I suspect Madden does not take himself all that seriously....but takes the money to bank and does not argue about his genius or lack thereof. V takes himself entirely to seriously.

[DocHolliday]

The Sox and Spanks have carried this aging stars thing to far. Both teams are suffering from the same malady....hanging on to aging stars as a nod to their fan bases as much as anything else while in reality, those same aging stars are more prone to injury and less likely to come back from injury once they go on the shelf. Both teams have grown entirely to old.

 

The Sox might have gotten a leg up on getting back to more team balance out of necessity. However at least in recent history, the Spanks have seemed to act more aggressively than the Sox have with regard to personnel. The Spanks might catch up quickly.

 

I also agree that the A's will likely not turn out to be a one season wonder nor will the O's and the Angels will likely rebound from what is shaping up to be a disappointing season for them.

 

While i think the Sox will do much to reshape this team going forward, the truth is that the rest of the AL has gotten much tougher. That was true going into this season though many wanted to discount that factor. That will remain a key element in the coming season as well I suspect. The Sox will get better. Will they get enough better in the short run. Probably not. Not at all convinced that 2013 turns out much different than 2012 and not at all convinced that the Sox should try a one year turnaround in the first place. The balance of power seems to have shifted to the AL West for that matter.

 

The balance of power has certainly shifted for the time being. But it wasn't that long ago when the baseball world could agree that the AL would come down to the Yankees and Red Sox. Things can change in this sport quickly as we have seen this season with the O's and A's, the Rangers in 2010, and the Rays in 2008.

 

Outside of Ortiz and maybe Lackey, the Sox don't have near the number or commitment to aging stars as the Yankees do. Jeter, Arod, and Rivera (assuming he returns) immediately come to mind, with Sabathia and Teixiera not too far behind. That's around $70 M in commitments to players who will fit the aging stars tag over each of the next 4 seasons. By contrast, the Sox are currently on the hook for $32M total for Lackey over the next 2 seasons and around $12 M to Ortiz if he returns for next year.

 

From where things stand today, it certainly appears that the Red Sox are much better equipped to improve on their current position in the coming years than the Yankees are.

[Bellhorn04]

He's an idiot. IDK how he got the genius reputation. The guy's moves are idiotic, but he has been fortunate to have teams with good pitching so they have been competitive. Walking Ciriaco the other night to pitch to Ells was typical of his stupid moves.

 

 

I haven't seen anyone as hard on Maddon as you are, and I must say I enjoy it.