Time for Valentine to go

[boxajoe]

It's clearly time for Valentine to go. I mean are you serious ? Bases loaded he allows Melancon, Melancon , yes Melancon to pitch to Curtis Granderson with the bases loaded. Keep in mind this is after Melancon hit Chavez, and allowed more base runners to get on. This is not exusable anymore, Valentine must go. Let's hope Cherrington came on the road trip to promptly fire Valentine. I understand this team has had many playes go on the DL and we are without Ortiz, but lets face it...............What has Valentine done for this team ? What ? nothing.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

lol threads for everything

[Emmz]

Bobby V was a joke to begin with. This is a dude who never deserved an opportunity.

 

Half-assed, demoralizing offseason to be sure, the stinginess was what really pissed me off. They basically decided they weren't going to do jack s*** to make improvements in the weak rotation. I half-expected Beckett to be mediocre this year, but never expected Lester to basically be John Lackey.

 

I really hope they go out and get stuff done, I'm sick of missing the postseason.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

There's not much for Valentine to do anyway, this team just flat out f***ing sucks.

[SCM33]

.....somehow, they need to bring in John Farrell

[Dojji]

Like Farrell would come here. He's serveral times better off staying in Toronto and we all know it.

[SCM33]

Like Farrell would come here. He's serveral times better off staying in Toronto and we all know it.

 

Yeah, because he has a great team up there in Toronto. Right now 5 straight years of 4th place teams.

 

Yeah, Boston is way worse.

 

If he could, he would.

[example1]

I agree about Farrell. If he could, he would.

 

Yes, Valentine needs to go. No particular baseball decision backing my feelings, just a thought that what this team needed is someone who could unite the clubhouse. That's not what has happened. Perhaps a dose of V was what the team needed... sort of like someone who swallows poison is sometimes forced to vomit by drinking something nasty, or thinking about poop.

 

The long and short of is that he is stuck with the team he has. The contracts and personalities make that a hard-and-fast reality. Therefore, if the manager can't work with them, the manager has to go. The Red Sox are in last place in the division. The manager isn't getting the results he needs from them. In other situations, the player has been let go. That's simply not possible here.

[Designated Hater]

There's not much for Valentine to do anyway' date=' this team just flat out f***ing sucks.[/quote']

 

Bingo! I love all this talk around Boston AND in the national media (MLB Network Radio) that this team just may turn it around and they are only a few games out of the Wild Card.

 

What about the damn eye test? Can't people just SEE that this team is COOKED?

 

Getting that 2nd wildcard spot would be worse than them missing the postseason because knowing this ownership group, they will proudly hang their hat on the fact that they made the post season for the first time since 2009, forgetting all the lameness that happened dating back to the middle of 2011.

 

Hate the Yankees all you want, but would they EVER let this happen in New York? Never. And yeah, the 80s were s***, but ANY of those teams would murder the 2012 Red Sox.

[Bellhorn04]

Valentine's comments about 'heading in the right direction' confirm that he's a whack job.

[mvp 78]

He's gone in October.

[Designated Hater]

Valentine's comments about 'heading in the right direction' confirm that he's a whack job.

 

He's walking the company line.

 

Don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth. If you could sit him down and get him into real conversation I believe that he would say:

1) it was a HUGE mistake to take this job

2) my hands are tied because Larry and Ben fight too much about where the team should go

3) these players are bigger ass holes than I could have ever imagined sitting up in the ESPN booth

4) my coaching staff isn't my own, f***ing my chances to win right out of the gate

5) Sean McAdam is a dink

[mvp 78]

If BV was a man, he'd just say what he thinks. He's not getting extended here so why not show some balls? The reality is he's just a toadie and a tv star brought in by LL.

 

Should have signed Sveum instead.

[Designated Hater]

If BV was a man, he'd just say what he thinks. He's not getting extended here so why not show some balls? The reality is he's just a toadie and a tv star brought in by LL.

 

Should have signed Sveum instead.

 

Dale Sveum? No f***ing way.

 

There is definitely one thing you have to remember: regardless of the size of Boston in square mileage, it's huge on the sports map and you have to have someone here that is charismatic AND a good baseball guy.

 

I do believe that he is both, but he's taking it too far. On the flip of that, who is to say that Larry isn't the puppet master behind that too, encouraging him to do all this ridiculous s*** so that reporters and armchair managers like us talk about the team?

[wyo-sox]

Bobby can stay or Bobby can go, it does not matter. Watching this group (not team) all year it should be obvious that it is way beyond a one person problem. We are not a couple of pitchers away, we are not a catcher away, and not a manager away from being a strong playoff team.

 

There is obviously a huge attitude, chemistry, a hole, issue with this group. Something in the mix is poisoning it and has robbed the passion from itself. Negativity spreads much faster and easier then positive attitudes and whiny selfish bitchiness has run through this group like a wildfire. Thinking the right manager could fix it is delusional.

 

And there are obvious talent problems, bad (major way bad) contracts, a manager who was neutered, distracted ownership, a media that makes it miserable for players, a fan base that does not know how to loose a game without demanding somebody's head.

 

We can stop with these threads insinuating one player, or a couple players, or the manager are the problem. Folks for as much as you may not like Bobby V., don't put your faith in this team turning things around on him leaving. You will be really disappointed when the next manager has the same problems. As bad a you may think Bobby V is, the Sox a a whole are much more broken and dysfunctional than he is.

 

Fact: Sox are many personal changes away and several years away from changing. Get used to it.

[wyo-sox]

He's walking the company line.

 

Don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth. If you could sit him down and get him into real conversation I believe that he would say:

1) it was a HUGE mistake to take this job

2) my hands are tied because Larry and Ben fight too much about where the team should go

3) these players are bigger ass holes than I could have ever imagined sitting up in the ESPN booth

4) my coaching staff isn't my own, f***ing my chances to win right out of the gate

5) Sean McAdam is a dink

 

 

I like this. He has quickly learned he is damned no matter what you say. Ever wonder why Bill Belichick speaks in such short general and generic phrases with the media for all these years. The over reactionary media does not lend itself in getting honest answers from coaches.

 

I watched the YES broadcast of yesterday's game and the NY announcers were talking about Bobby V. They stated that watching him is like seeing Bobby Lite, they did not feel Boston got the real Bobby at all.

 

Ownership, players, and media.... none want the real Bobby. Bobby vetting fired- what the heck makes us think he would want to come e back?

[Thunder]

It was time for Bobby V to go on Opening Day.

[jung]

The way this franchise is going, they may end up lucky to have V. I never thought I would say that but the thing that will stand out to other managerial candidates will be the degree to which V had to bend in order to be in this job. That much is so in the public domain at this point that you would have had to have been hiding under a rock not to know it. A really good manager will likely not touch this job with a ten foot pole at this point, a real indication for how far this franchise has fallen. If they do make a change it will be another guy desperate to get back into managing or a guy with no experience managing. There is so much wrong with this organization at this point that I am not even sure it matters.

[mvp 78]

I don't give a s*** about a manager's charisma. I want wins, not soundbites for NESN.

[a700hitter]

 

I watched the YES broadcast of yesterday's game and the NY announcers were talking about Bobby V. They stated that watching him is like seeing Bobby Lite, they did not feel Boston got the real Bobby at all.

 

Ownership, players, and media.... none want the real Bobby. Bobby vetting fired- what the heck makes us think he would want to come e back?

I was listening to the YES broadcast too, and Michael Kay went even further. He elaborated that he felt they had robbed Bobby V of a lot of his personality. I am not sure exactly what he meant by that, but I think Bobby V was told to tone it down and play nice, especially with Cherries.

 

When he was hired, I thought that in the worst case scenario, Bobby V would piss off the players and they would unify with regard to their hatred of the manager. That has been known to work with teams. Instead, they got this mealy mouthed guy who never says anything bad about his players. He has been a huge non-factor.

[Thunder]

I was just reading online that the only players left on the DL are Papi, who's coming back very soon, Andrew Bailey, and Dice K. But they still can't play.

[jung]

Oh it has been even worse than the worst of both worlds. V was castrated early on and has not been anything like the manager that the Sox were purported to want. I say purported to want since they caved so quickly that I suspect what they really wanted was a facade....the illusion of somebody building the players into some sort of a team playing solid, cohesive baseball hoping instead that the players would police themselves and at least out of embarrassment not allow another complete collapse after the 2011 debacle.

 

Along with that, instead of getting players uniting in sort of the us against him "we will show him" group mentality that 700 was hoping for, we got the "hey we know how to bury this guy cause we just buried the last guy" mentality which always breaks down into me first thinking.

 

While at the end of the day, they have played so poorly that I am inclined to think this manager vs player stuff is for the most part background noise, It may well have had an impact in the most important element of baseball....the starting pitching. The staff has been leaderless all year with Beckett showing no interest in leading this bunch and only occasional interest in his own performances and Lester simply being incapable in that regard....something some of us have felt and said for a long time now. The complete fiasco that is Josh Beckett as a Red Sox may in part have been aided by some of the early rancor between Beckett and V.

 

In truth, I just don't think they are that good. Few of them work hard at their games. The exceptions are Ortiz and Pedey but they are exceptions, not the rule. Many simply are just not that talented or have talent but don't appear to work at their game, certainly don't work at it effectively and that is where this me first, I know what I am doing s*** really breaks down. Maybe Agons did know what he was doing....insisting that he would solve his own issues but his slump was interminable and he still has not been the hitter we hoped we were getting when we signed him.

 

The younger players like WMB fall into bad habits...the older players seem oblivious to what is going on around them, making no effort to play cohesive team baseball.

 

We revel in a Cody Ross in the main I think because so many have performed so poorly and Ross is a stand out in this group. However nothing about Cody Ross is different because he is a Red Sox player. The wall in Fenway helps him but he is a career platoon player and has done nothing to prove himself otherwise here. Again had so many others not performed so poorly, Ross would likely not be as noticed for his positives as he has been.

 

Another truth I think is that this group of players never gave V a chance preferring the we will bury him route as I stated earlier. I guess they wanted to show management that they would revolt against any effort to use the manager's position to draw them into some sort of representative team and would not even do it in spite of management. That is the equivalent as players of saying to management, we are going to leave you with nothing. While it is extremely difficult to draw a direct line between this sort of ******** and the actual play of individual players or the team as a whole I think it is what ultimately takes a mediocre team and turns it into a nuclear holocaust. It does not turn a good team into a bad team. However it brings out the very worst in a team that is just not that good to begin with and is finally a factor in allowing the whole thing to devolve and unravel as the Sox are unraveling.

 

They avoided open mockery for the most part at Fenway during the September collapse. I don't think they will avoid it this year.

[Big Papis Ghost]

SUCK IT UP AND RE-HIRE TITO AT ALL COST !!!!!

[Bellhorn04]

Valentine is a 62-year old man. He was out of an MLB job for a decade. He had his fill of the TV gig, presumably. Now he's got a 2 year contract managing one of the big shot teams. He's probably grateful to the brass for hiring him. Whether they told him so or he realized it himself, there came a point when it occurred to him that blowing his stack on a regular basis might not be such a great idea for the future of his career as a manager. So yeah, he's just another docile puppy with a paycheck now.

[Elktonnick]

SUCK IT UP AND RE-HIRE TITO AT ALL COST !!!!!

 

Yea that's the ticket ! Bring back Theo, Wake and Tek while you are at Not to mention getting rid of Jenny Dell, she's the real problem. This team played much better when Hiedi was on the sidelines.<_>

[jung]

The funny thing about V and his "Boston" experience is that he has really gone balls to the walls on the marketing of V in Boston route.....buying up restaurants and making many promo spots etc etc. It is the investing in the marketing of V in Boston thing that might well backfire on him.

 

He may well be in and out of here so fast that all of that will end up being a net loss to him when all is said and done. Who knows....I have no idea how much of his own money has gone into this effort. When he was hired I said that I had rarely seen an instance where a manager made such a pronounced effort to market himself regionally as a consequence of his managerial position. Doing it so quickly and so definitively is what makes me wonder if he ended up tossing more of his own money into this than we would have guessed otherwise.

[Big Papis Ghost]

Well hell either way we suck !!!

[Big Papis Ghost]

So what the new manager option ??

[jung]

Like I said before I honest to God don't know who would want to come in here and take this mess. If I were a real deal, experienced managerial candidate I would want a guaranteed big money deal with all sorts of clauses written in stone allowing me to run my show and if the Sox did not like it they could go f*** themselves. They have made such an ungodly mess of this now that they have lost the right to make a manager toe some line or they will have to bring in another guy that has been out of baseball for a decade or so desperately looking for a way back in. We thought last year was bad....this year is last year cubed.

[wyo-sox]

Like I said before I honest to God don't know who would want to come in here and take this mess. If I were a real deal' date=' experienced managerial candidate I would want a guaranteed big money deal with all sorts of clauses written in stone allowing me to run my show and if the Sox did not like it they could go f*** themselves. They have made such an ungodly mess of this now that they have lost the right to make a manager toe some line or they will have to bring in another guy that has been out of baseball for a decade or so desperately looking for a way back in. We thought last year was bad....this year is last year cubed.[/quote']

 

I agree, the way Tito was fired, the way they allow players to run over Bobby and Bobby did not even hire his own pitching coach..... nobody worth their salt would choose to manage here. You know its a tough division, you know the media is insane... so if the owners / fo don't have your back...... no thanks.

 

Its taken me a while, but I have no more optimism. In a way it feels good. They will not let me down when they loose, I know what they are. I will still watch the games, but just to see the beginning of something new, which means watching this error of the Sox unfold.