Report: Red Sox attempting to trade Crawford for Hanley.

[SoxSport]

Olney also denounced the rumors first off' date=' and Gammons is typically extremely accurate on his reports. He reported last May that Lackey would need TJS. He reported the disconnect between Theo and Tito. And everyone called ******** on these too.[/quote']

 

So maybe Gammons is right. Who knows?

 

GMs make a lot of phone calls before the trade deadline, and throw out a lot of things not meant to be public.

[jung]

Like somebody said in another thread.....all these media guys that are "closely" attached to the team have their guy that is their source. Sometimes the guy knows something...sometimes he does not. When the source actually knows something the media source looks prescient when the source is off or is saying something to further his own agenda, the media guy looks not so smart. They are all sort of right and sort of wrong these days.

 

If I can see something with my own eyes I trust that. If not, I take everything and everything as likely inaccurate until proven otherwise.

 

This one is so typical....Sox shopping CC turns into an off handed comment buried as soon as made.

[SoxSport]

Reading the boards, seems there is some smoke about a CC for HR and Heath Bell deal out there from more than one twitter source. Apparently initiated by Miami. Gammons said the Sox didn't initiate anything.

A Marlins VP is supposed to be in Boston right now scouting CC. At this point, I would expect the Red Sox to deny everything, as they did initially with Youkilis. It's too early to see any fire, but there is smoke.

P.S. Maybe a good reason why CC is playing LF, and not DHing.

[iortiz]

I would take Josh Johnson and Hanley for Crawford and Doubront.

That could work out, and I like it.

[kapsis21]

Reading the boards, seems there is some smoke about a CC for HR and Heath Bell deal out there from more than one twitter source. Apparently initiated by Miami. Gammons said the Sox didn't initiate anything.

A Marlins VP is supposed to be in Boston right now scouting CC. At this point, I would expect the Red Sox to deny everything, as they did initially with Youkilis. It's too early to see any fire, but there is smoke.

 

god this is stupid. i loved CC signing initially, then hated that he underperformed. now that he is back and stealing bags. they talk about trades.. seriously

[jung]

I think the only thing you take from this if true is that the Sox are leaning toward Sellers not Buyers at the deadline and nobody is safe.....which is what you would expect from a team that is leaning toward being a Seller. Beckett would likely be at the top of the list but I think the Sox may seriously be considering that they are going to be Sellers and nobody is safe.

[kapsis21]

I think the only thing you take from this if true is that the Sox are leaning toward Sellers not Buyers at the deadline and nobody is safe.....which is what you would expect from a team that is leaning toward being a Seller. Beckett would likely be at the top of the list but I think the Sox may seriously be considering that they are going to be Sellers and nobody is safe.

 

i do like that mentality. some of the veterans would be getting shopped. but i hope we sell high and not low like we did with Youk

[Brennan]

When Gammons said that Lester wanted out I as well as many others thought he was full of s***. I agree that he is too close to the team to tell the truth but it makes you wonder why he would be stirring up s***.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Ugh. The more I think about this, the more I think I would vomit if we gave Crawford to the Marlins for HanRam, who is on a severe slide, and Heath Bell, who is a product of Petco.

 

Just keep Crawford.

 

I also hardly think this is a sign that they are selling because in this rumored deal, they're swapping salaries, not dumping, and are getting MLB ready players who would help them compete in 2012.

 

But I would put the chances of this deal happening lower than that of the Sox getting Hamels. And I put the deal for Hamels at around 0%.

[Brennan]

i do like that mentality. some of the veterans would be getting shopped. but i hope we sell high and not low like we did with Youk

 

 

Selling high has not been our forte for quite awhile though.

[SoxFanForsyth]

i do like that mentality. some of the veterans would be getting shopped. but i hope we sell high and not low like we did with Youk

 

Unfortunately, the players we trade would have to be performing above their true talent level to sell high.

 

This is 110% not the case. We'd be selling low on all players other than maybe Aviles? I'm not sure of anyone else who isn't underperforming.

[kapsis21]

Unfortunately, the players we trade would have to be performing above their true talent level to sell high.

 

This is 110% not the case. We'd be selling low on all players other than maybe Aviles? I'm not sure of anyone else who isn't underperforming.

 

that is true.. FML

[SoxFanForsyth]

According to a major league source, the Red Sox have not pursued the idea of trading left fielder Carl Crawford. The team, according to the source, did receive inquiries about whether it wanted to part with Crawford in what would have been tantamount to a salary dump; the Sox quickly rebuffed those inquiries.

 

Crawford is 4-for-7 with three steals in two games since returning from the disabled list. He's in the second year of a seven-year, $142 million deal.

 

A bit more discounting of the Crawford trade. Good news. I don't think there is any question that with an effective, healthy Crawford at the top of the order with Ellsbury, this team has a ridiculous lineup

[jung]

Selling high or low may not matter as much as it normally would if Management has decided that they have truly, finally seen enough. I would be willing to believe that although I would not expect them to go down that road just to avoid the PR hit of an obvious 2012 season white flag with resultant impact on ticket sales, NESN ratings etc.

 

There is so much disfunction at the field level with this team and the HR pitch to Youk after looking like Lester was pitching around him speaks volumes to the mess this team is from top to bottom.

 

Lester could not hit the outside part of the plate....just could not. What do we think....that Youk could not see that. There were only two options for that pitch and Youk knew it...ball four or an attempt to get the ball over which defacto meant a pitch over the inside part of the plate cause Lester could not hit the outside part of the plate.

 

So what do the Sox do....let Lester try to get Youk out with a LH hitter in the on deck circle. I could absolutely see management deciding that they have seen enough with the one exception that they would try to avoid the PR hit for raising the white flag.

[Palodios]

Gammons just came on and completely denounced the Crawford Marlins idea. Said Rosenthal is his good friend, and that there's zero truth to the deal. Also said people have called about Crawford, but the Sox haven't called anyone about Crawford.

 

Also said that he's hearing that the Red Sox will be one of the finalists on Garza.

 

All good news IMO.

 

Garza, Beckett, Lackey, Padilla. Is it just me, or does that seem like the most four unlikeable pitchers in baseball?

[a700hitter]

Garza' date=' Beckett, Lackey, Padilla. Is it just me, or does that seem like the most four unlikeable pitchers in baseball?[/quote']Add in David Wells.

[SoxSport]

I have to laugh about Nightengale and Olney: Olney "struck down" Nightengale's rumor 10 minutes after Nightengale's twitter. Sounds to me as though Olney called the Red Sox, they said no, and Olney twittered no deal. With the Marlins VP in Boston scouting Crawford, it would appear that Olney may have overstepped. Besides, he's from NY, and none of those NY guys ever say anything good about the Red Sox--or any Boston team.

 

What are the facts? The Red Sox apparently are testing the market for CC (the Globe reported that yesterday), and they got a bite from the Marlins (reported today). The "bite" involving Bell and HR was probably leaked by Miami.

[jung]

Isn't there a difference of opinion about whether the Marlins brought up Crawford or whether the Sox did? It sounded like ultimately, the Marlins brought up his name as opposed to the Sox bringing up his name. But I don't know....the way the posts were coming in maybe it was all just timing.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Isn't there a difference of opinion about whether the Marlins brought up Crawford or whether the Sox did? It sounded like ultimately' date=' the Marlins brought up his name as opposed to the Sox bringing up his name. But I don't know....the way the posts were coming in maybe it was all just timing.[/quote']

 

I've heard a few sources (Bradford, Olney, Gammons) all say that the Sox are not calling people about Crawford, and that the Marlins are the ones who called the Red Sox about him and offered HanRam + Heath Bell, and that it was going to be a massive salary dump.

 

No chance, though. The Red Sox need to hang on to Crawford.

 

It's quite strange, though. For all of the Crawford bashers that there are, as soon as the story came out I thought the EEI and 98.5 lines would pile up with people DYING to trade him. But, to my complete surprise, they filled up with people saying "Keep this guy, he's a great player". I was pleasantly surprised.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Garza' date=' Beckett, Lackey, Padilla. Is it just me, or does that seem like the most four unlikeable pitchers in baseball?[/quote']

 

I see Garza as one of those guys you hate when he's not on your team, and love when he is.

 

I kind of see Lackey as the exact opposite.

[jung]

Not liking the deal to start with and not being willing to take what would likely be a bad deal in a trade are two different things. If I could turn back the clock and force Theo to take a 24 hour nap for the period he made the trade I would do it. It was a bad deal.

 

However I don't see a mid season trade involving CC that works to the Sox benefit. I just don't see it. In my view the only "sell" trades the Sox should consider at the deadline if they consider any at all would be trades that clearly work to make this a better team. That does not mean the deal has to be a one sided deal with the other team getting raped in the process. It could be a deal that was in essence an equal value deal but it would have to be a deal that without question made the Sox a better team.

 

I just don't see how they could pull off something like that midseason especially with the complexity of and the cost involved in the Crawford contract.

 

I was more interested in who broached the topic for the reason I suggested earlier. If the Sox it would suggest to me that the Sox "think" they will be sellers at the deadline and virtually nobody is safe.

[ellsburyforMVP]

I see Garza as one of those guys you hate when he's not on your team, and love when he is.

 

I kind of see Lackey as the exact opposite.

 

I see lackey as a piece of chit......

[SCM33]

Hanley Ramirez is the exact OPPOSITE of the type of person we need for the clubhouse. That would be a disaster.

[Bellhorn04]

It's quite strange' date=' though. For all of the Crawford bashers that there are, as soon as the story came out I thought the EEI and 98.5 lines would pile up with people DYING to trade him. But, to my complete surprise, they filled up with people saying "Keep this guy, he's a great player". I was pleasantly surprised.[/quote']

 

Pretty funny, isn't it. People see him play a couple of games and he looks like the Crawford they expected to see last year, and their opinion changes quickly.

[SoxSport]

First of all, let's eliminate the clubhouse factor. Nobody outside the team really knows what goes on in the clubhouse and between the players. Fans get impressions from the media, but the media doesn't know either. Clubhouse is overblown--it's the chemistry on the field that matters--the meshing of roles. Not much to do with personality.

 

There are a couple of reasons I can think of for wanting to deal CC. First, it was a bad fit for the team's needs. They got a guy whose prime attribute, speed, hasn't been used properly in the lineup or defensively in tiny LF at Fenway. Second, he was way overpriced, and his contract runs too long. Combined with Gonzo' long term deal, it limits them down the road--to the point where they probably wouldn't be able to sign Ells. Maybe it really boils down to trading Carl or Ells in the next couple of weeks.

 

As for HRam and Bell, they should have a pretty good fix on those guys (a call to Hoyer about Bell has probably been made). The good thing about a deal like this is it breaks the money up, and shortens the contract terms to just a couple more years. Whether HRam can play SS or can rejuvenate as a hitter in Fenway (look at what Ross is doing) is open to question. But I applaud the Marlins for the offer.

[SoxFanForsyth]

From my understanding, the Crawford deal would be a pretty huge salary dump. Which is likely why it won't get done.

 

I think this was just a case of:

 

Marlins: Hey, Ben, we're interested in Carl Crawford. What do you think?

Ben: Ah, I don't think so. What did you guys have in mind, though?

Marlins: Maybe Heath Bell + Hanley Ramirez for Crawford + $25mm?

Ben: No, I don't think that makes sense for us. Thanks for the call, though.

 

End of trade rumor.

[SoxSport]

I see Garza as one of those guys you hate when he's not on your team, and love when he is.

 

I kind of see Lackey as the exact opposite.

 

 

You have to like Garza because he was very effective with TB in the AL east division.

More so than with the Cubs.

[SoxSport]

Isn't there a difference of opinion about whether the Marlins brought up Crawford or whether the Sox did? It sounded like ultimately' date=' the Marlins brought up his name as opposed to the Sox bringing up his name. But I don't know....the way the posts were coming in maybe it was all just timing.[/quote']

 

Every denial by the Red Sox has left the impression the Marlins initiated the offer. The Sox said they did not make the offer. Gammons said the same. The impression is the suction is coming from Miami. But that's what the Red Sox would want, anyways. They've screwed up the PR on Carl enough already.

[Laser Show]

Even though I'd rather keep Crawford, I think Hanley would be a better fit here. We all go on about how we're too LHH heavy and have no RH power, and Hanley could fix that. He could hit 90-100 XBH at Fenway if he ever gets back to normal.

[ellsburyforMVP]

I've always thought we would eventually get Hanley back.....but his "yearly" rumors never really pan out.

 

Some "rumors" you just know, are going to happen... Like we all knew ( 2 yrs before it happened ) that Adrian Gonzalez would be a red sox... I knew , that eventually , Crawford would be a red sox...... I would love to see hanram back with Boston, but not with this deal