Ortiz in walking boot.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

GFY Troll:lol:

It's funny how you only call me a troll when both of us know you don't have s*** to say about something I just posted.

[YAZMAN]

Who gives a s*** what Yaz did?

 

Why should anyone give a s*** about how some guy 40 years ago dealt with a particular injury?

 

That's how it was done then, they didn't have MRIs or understand the extent of injuries and what they might lead to if not attended to. Diagnosis is exponentially better now, so are treatments and rehab modalities. It's sort of an apples/oranges comparison....even though Yaz had giant brass balls.

[a700hitter]

It's funny how you only call me a troll when both of us know you don't have s*** to say about something I just posted.

No, I call you a troll, because you are a troll.

 

In answer to your question, I post my thoughts here. If they interest others, fine. If not, also fine. I couldn't care less if you find it interesting.

[2004 ALCS]

Yaz also tore his tendon trying to play through tendonitis, making the problem worse. That would be incredibly dumb of Ortiz to do.

[a700hitter]

That's how it was done then' date=' they didn't have MRIs or understand the extent of injuries and what they might lead to if not attended to. Diagnosis is exponentially better now, so are treatments and rehab modalities. It's sort of an apples/oranges comparison....even though Yaz had giant brass balls.[/quote']It was not unusual for injured guys to go out and play with limps. You never see that today. Most of them knew that if they came out of games and sat on the bench that they could lose their jobs.

 

In the second to last game of the 1967 season, the Sox were facing Jim Kaat, one of the best lefties in the game at that time. He popped his elbow ligament on a pitch, but he kept pitching. After each pitch, he would pull his arm in toward his body and grimace. The catcher went out to see if he was okay then he came back to home plate and said something to the ump. The umpire went out to the mound to ask him if he was okay. No manager or pitching coach or trainer came to the mound. The ump let him throw a few practice pitches. Eventually, the manager came out and replace Kaat. Kaat never had the ligament repaired. There was no TJ surgery. He rested his arm and came back to pitch the following year. He was never the same pitcher, but he was a starter for another 10 years-- winning 20 or more games two times. In total he pitched in the majors for another 16 seasons.

 

Today, I laugh when a pitcher trips on the mound or makes a face because he is forcing out some gas, the manager, pitching coach and trainer come bolting out of the dugout and race to the mound like the guy needs to be defibrillated.

[SoxSport]

Papi just told the Red Sox that he is very fragile, and probably not worth another contract. Certainly not a multi- year contract.

[2004 ALCS]

Ah, the good old days before women were allowed in the gates and blacks had their own league.

[redsoxbeatz]

DL. This sucks absolute worst timing ever.

[SoxSport]

It was not unusual for injured guys to go out and play with limps. You never see that today. Most of them knew that if they came out of games and sat on the bench that they could lose their jobs.

 

In the second to last game of the 1967 season, the Sox were facing Jim Kaat, one of the best lefties in the game at that time. He popped his elbow ligament on a pitch, but he kept pitching. After each pitch, he would pull his arm in toward his body and grimace. The catcher went out to see if he was okay then he came back to home plate and said something to the ump. The umpire went out to the mound to ask him if he was okay. No manager or pitching coach or trainer came to the mound. The ump let him throw a few practice pitches. Eventually, the manager came out and replace Kaat. Kaat never had the ligament repaired. There was no TJ surgery. He rested his arm and came back to pitch the following year. He was never the same pitcher, but he was a starter for another 10 years-- winning 20 or more games two times. In total he pitched in the majors for another 16 seasons.

 

Today, I laugh when a pitcher trips on the mound or makes a face because he is forcing out some gas, the manager, pitching coach and trainer come bolting out of the dugout and race to the mound like the guy needs to be defibrillated.

 

These old pitchers are critical of the current system, especially pitch counts. I've talked to a few of them over the years, and they resent being taken out of games prematurely because of pitch count machines. Pitch counting is a bunch of BS, and has no medical or scientific basis. It is true, however, that once a guy hits 120 pitches, he has to be watched carefully, because that's usually when his stuff starts to decline from fatigue. The trouble with pitch counts is if you condition a guy to throw 100 pitches, that's all he'll be able to throw--on a good day. Then you go to the bullpen, and use 3 or 4 other pitchers for the rest of the game. That's a lot of heatups. You have to carry 12 pitchers, and the next year you have to turn over a lot of your bullpen. A lot of people don't realize a reliever throws 2-3 times as many pitches in the bullpen as he does in the game--pitching the usual one inning. That takes its toll if a guy makes 60 appearances.

[jung]

Well I really do wish Ortiz could have avoided the DL. It goes give Crawford and Ells a chance to see if they can actually move the team to a more speed oriented offense. Team cannot continue to just live on Papi bombs and extra base hits.

 

They cannot continue this win one lose one thing that has gone on day after day, month after month.

[a700hitter]

These old pitchers are critical of the current system' date=' especially pitch counts. I've talked to a few of them over the years, and they resent being taken out of games prematurely because of pitch count machines. Pitch counting is a bunch of BS, and has no medical or scientific basis. It is true, however, that once a guy hits 120 pitches, he has to be watched carefully, because that's usually when his stuff starts to decline from fatigue. The trouble with pitch counts is if you condition a guy to throw 100 pitches, that's all he'll be able to throw--on a good day. Then you go to the bullpen, and use 3 or 4 other pitchers for the rest of the game. That's a lot of heatups. You have to carry 12 pitchers, and the next year you have to turn over a lot of your bullpen. A lot of people don't realize a reliever throws 2-3 times as many pitches in the bullpen as he does in the game--pitching the usual one inning. That takes its toll if a guy makes 60 appearances.[/quote']Someone told me about a study that showed that despite the precautions of pitch counts etc that the incidence of pitchers hitting the DL for prolonged periods has been going up. There is not only nothing scientific about it, but it is probably counterproductive with regard to injury prevention.

 

I talked to Tom Seaver about the pitch count issue. He said that the Mets were one of the first teams to count pitches and have pitch counts. The reason for the pitch count was not to protect the pitcher from injury, but rather as a guidepost for the pitcher to know how much he had left in the tank. If his pitch count was high, he explained, he would not get into a 7-10 pitch battle trying to strike out a hitter. He would instead look to pitch to contact to save his energy.

 

He told me that his pitch count was 140 an Nolan Ryan's was 160. That could get you through some games.

[iortiz]

To DL? dammit.

 

Hey SFF, I thought it was a matter of 2 o3 days. You said that CC was coming back soon as well.

 

[2004 ALCS]

Simply because pitching counts are in fashion now and more pitchers are getting hurt now does not mean that more pitchers are getting hurt because of pitching counts. Pitchers are also putting a lot of wear on the body when they're not pitching to get in to the physical condition that allows them to compete in modern baseball.