What do the Red Sox need to do to make the playoffs?

[SouthieFanatic]

On a serious note-- there are guys that all of baseball watches. Can't miss guys. Strasburg' date='Verlander, Kemp, etc etc. Every team in baseball will want Ellsbury-- all they need to do is get the medical reports together.[/quote']

 

He has arbitration after 2013 FA after 2014. A trade for him might scare off teams

[2004 ALCS]

I can name a three team trade that involved two pitchers of Felix's caliber' date=' which I think should be worth more. [/quote']

 

Go for it.

[2004 ALCS]

On a serious note-- there are guys that all of baseball watches. Can't miss guys. Strasburg' date='Verlander, Kemp, etc etc. Every team in baseball will want Ellsbury-- all they need to do is get the medical reports together.[/quote']

 

I think you're greatly overvaluing Ellsbury. He had a 30/30 year which was by far a career year for him, he's missed significant time two of the last three years, he's no long cheap and he's only under contract for the next year and 2 months. A contending team would love him, but a rebuilding team such as the Mariners would have no use for him. It would be a waste to acquire a player who will be a free agent after 2013 and give up your ace pitcher in return. There's no way the Mariners will compete before 2014 without Felix.

[SouthieFanatic]

I would say aim for Garza or Greinke. Greinke may not be around long though apparently the brew crew are preparing a 5 year 100 mill dollar deal. I'd have a hard time saying no to that even if it is in Milwaukee. Hell Greinke is use to being on a garbage team that's been his whole career KC to MIL

[Palodios]

He has arbitration after 2013 FA after 2014. A trade for him might scare off teams

 

Teams will want him to play for a few weeks first. Obviously Ellsbury would be a guy who comes down to the very end of the trade deadline in order for teams to see if he still has it together after the injury.

 

That being said, I want nothing to do with a Felix trade. Seattle wants far too much for him, he's been completely untested in Seattle, and there are plenty of other elite pitchers available.

[Palodios]

I think you're greatly overvaluing Ellsbury. He had a 30/30 year which was by far a career year for him' date=' he's missed significant time two of the last three years, he's no long cheap and he's only under contract for the next year and 2 months. A contending team would love him, but a rebuilding team such as the Mariners would have no use for him. It would be a waste to acquire a player who will be a free agent after 2013 and give up your ace pitcher in return. There's no way the Mariners will compete before 2014 without Felix.[/quote']

 

Let me repeat this one:

 

Three team trade.

[SouthieFanatic]

I think you're greatly overvaluing Ellsbury. He had a 30/30 year which was by far a career year for him' date=' he's missed significant time two of the last three years, he's no long cheap and he's only under contract for the next year and 2 months. A contending team would love him, but a rebuilding team such as the Mariners would have no use for him. It would be a waste to acquire a player who will be a free agent after 2013 and give up your ace pitcher in return. There's no way the Mariners will compete before 2014 without Felix.[/quote']

 

Was that a contract year for Ellsbury?

[Palodios]

Go for it.

 

Remember the Cliff Lee/Halladay deal?

[SouthieFanatic]

I don't care where Ellsbury goes as long as it's not here. Maybe one more year, but after that just give the reigns to the kid (Bradley). He's a stud I don't think I need to sell anyone on that

[ellsburyforMVP]

I think you're greatly overvaluing Ellsbury. He had a 30/30 year which was by far a career year for him' date=' he's missed significant time two of the last three years, he's no long cheap and he's only under contract for the next year and 2 months. A contending team would love him, but a rebuilding team such as the Mariners would have no use for him. It would be a waste to acquire a player who will be a free agent after 2013 and give up your ace pitcher in return. There's no way the Mariners will compete before 2014 without Felix.[/quote']

 

Umm he's 28? And that was essentially his 3rd season in the bigs? Guys don't come into the league in " beast mode " Want 1 quick example? Jose Bautista ! How bout another? David Ortiz.....Matt kemp....I can go on and on....to say he had a " career year " is unfair

 

You take away the year he was injured, his stats ( for the majority ) have steadily increased every year?

[2004 ALCS]

Remember the Cliff Lee/Halladay deal?

 

The Phillies gave up Cliff Lee and Kyle Drabek PLUS they gave up D'Arnoud and Taylor. That trade seems to suggest my point that two of the best four young prospects is a STARTING POINT for a an elite pitcher. Not to mention, Halladay agreed to a three year extension.

[2004 ALCS]

Umm he's 28? And that was essentially his 3rd season in the bigs? Guys don't come into the league in " beast mode " Want 1 quick example? Jose Bautista ! How bout another? David Ortiz.....Matt kemp....I can go on and on....to say he had a " career year " is unfair

 

You take away the year he was injured, his stats ( for the majority ) have steadily increased every year?

 

What's your point? He's a great player but he's not cheap anymore and he's not under contract past 2013. Why would a rebuilding team who's trading away their best player think they could compete before 2014?

[SouthieFanatic]

You have to think about 2-3 years down the line.. If Ellsbury comes back strong and goes back to his old form will he sign on for multi years with the sox? Or if he doesn't come back in good form they should off load him and get something rather then see him walk for nothing. If he doesn't come back strong they'll move in the other direction. The front office is drooling over Bradley as they should

[ellsburyforMVP]

You have to think about 2-3 years down the line.. If Ellsbury comes back strong and goes back to his old form will he sign on for multi years with the sox? Or if he doesn't come back in good form they should off load him and get something rather then see him walk for nothing. If he doesn't come back strong they'll move in the other direction. The front office is drooling over Bradley as they should

 

Ellsbury>Bradley ......trust me I'm not advocating trading ellsbury at all....the kid is only getting better, 3-5 after missing half the season?

 

Don't give me that injury crap either...both his injuries were caused by another player either colliding into him or landing on top of him

[SouthieFanatic]

Ellsbury>Bradley ......trust me I'm not advocating trading ellsbury at all....the kid is only getting better, 3-5 after missing half the season?

 

Don't give me that injury crap either...both his injuries were caused by another player either colliding into him or landing on top of him[/quote

 

I've only seen Bradley play a handful of times, but when I saw him play I couldn't get over it. Ellsbury may have gotten injured on some flukes, but that doesn't take away from the main point. That being he hasn't been on the field consistently throughout his career.

[SouthieFanatic]

And with the money he will be asking for very soon, I don't see it being worth it

[ellsburyforMVP]

Ellsbury>Bradley ......trust me I'm not advocating trading ellsbury at all....the kid is only getting better, 3-5 after missing half the season?

 

Don't give me that injury crap either...both his injuries were caused by another player either colliding into him or landing on top of him[/quote

 

I've only seen Bradley play a handful of times, but when I saw him play I couldn't get over it. Ellsbury may have gotten injured on some flukes, but that doesn't take away from the main point. That being he hasn't been on the field consistently throughout his career.

 

He got called up at the end of the year his first season..Played 2 full seasons got hurt ( f*** you beltre!!!! ) played another full season, got hurt ( f*** you (mi can't remember your name guy )..... .??

[ellsburyforMVP]

And with the money he will be asking for very soon' date=' I don't see it being worth it[/quote']

 

Then you clearly didn't see him play last year?

 

If ellsbury can keep his average/power numbers/SB on par with last year,to go with his excellent defense? He's a franchise player in every MLB's teams eyes

[SouthieFanatic]

 

He got called up at the end of the year his first season..Played 2 full seasons got hurt ( f*** you beltre!!!! ) played another full season, got hurt ( f*** you (mi can't remember your name guy )..... .??

 

Well i'm big on developing young players at the MLB level and not having 25 year olds waste their talent in AAA. That's why i'm so pro-bradley. I can see your argument for Ellsbury of course. Hell if I had it my way i'd have Bogaerts in AAA by now

[SouthieFanatic]

No, I remember his 30 for 30 season...but that was once. Let's see him do it again then we're on to something

[ellsburyforMVP]

No' date=' I remember his 30 for 30 season...but that was once. Let's see him do it again then we're on to something[/quote']

 

The kid needs a chance? He's been hurt...once again there's no evidence to suggest last season was a " fluke " as his yearly numbers has risen every yr...Hits/doubles/RBI/walks/average/obp/slg etc

[SouthieFanatic]

The kid needs a chance? He's been hurt...once again there's no evidence to suggest last season was a " fluke " as his yearly numbers has risen every yr...Hits/doubles/RBI/walks/average/obp/slg etc

 

And he'll have a chance to come back. I don't think they'll move him this season. I know the threads are flooding with Ellsbury/Lester/Iglesias trades for all these pitchers, but I don't think he'll be one of the pieces. I think teams would prefer Middlebrooks way before Ellsbury

[ellsburyforMVP]

And he'll have a chance to come back. I don't think they'll move him this season. I know the threads are flooding with Ellsbury/Lester/Iglesias trades for all these pitchers' date=' but I don't think he'll be one of the pieces. I think teams would prefer Middlebrooks way before Ellsbury[/quote']

 

Ellsbury isn't going anywhere this season....count on it

[2004 ALCS]

The kid needs a chance? He's been hurt...once again there's no evidence to suggest last season was a " fluke " as his yearly numbers has risen every yr...Hits/doubles/RBI/walks/average/obp/slg etc

 

That still doesn't have anything to do with why a rebuilding team would give away their best player to acquire Ellsbury, who will be a free agent after next year.

[ellsburyforMVP]

That still doesn't have anything to do with why a rebuilding team would give away their best player to acquire Ellsbury' date=' who will be a free agent after next year.[/quote']

 

1st of all...the sox are NOT dealing ellsbury this year...bank on it

 

And 2nd, because having a guy like ellsbury gives you options...either A= you build around ellsbury ( Seattle needs offense ) and the prospects you would get in the deal or B= if either the deal is done before the trade line, you can then dangle him out there for whoever you may want? Or you hold onto him for next year-then trade him?

 

If a team is in a true " rebuilding mode " then it makes no sense whatsoever to keep any big contracts on their payroll? Why not off-load for as many prospects you can get?

[SouthieFanatic]

1st of all...the sox are NOT dealing ellsbury this year...bank on it

 

And 2nd, because having a guy like ellsbury gives you options...either A= you build around ellsbury ( Seattle needs offense ) and the prospects you would get in the deal or B= if either the deal is done before the trade line, you can then dangle him out there for whoever you may want? Or you hold onto him for next year-then trade him?

 

If a team is in a true " rebuilding mode " then it makes no sense whatsoever to keep any big contracts on their payroll? Why not off-load for as many prospects you can get?

 

I agree, they won't unload him this season. The front office doesn't see anyone who can take daily duties of CF better than Ellsbury right now. However, next year I think he's huge trade bait unless he comes back and goes for another 30/30. Either way they're in a good position that is the RedSox. He does bad? Ship him and bring in Bradley. He does good? Sign him and try to work Bradley in CF time to time or transition to RF/LF

[2004 ALCS]

I don't think Jackie Bradley Jr. would prevent us from re-signing Ellsbury. Right field in Fenway park is very large and Bradley has a great arm which would make him ideal for the position. The Red Sox have the salary room to re-sign Ellsbury after 2013, it will probably come down to his contract demands. They currently have less than $95 million committed to 2014 and they would have Gonzalez, Crawford, Beckett, Lackey, Pedroia, Lester, Bailey, Buchholz, Bard, Aceves, Aviles, Miller, Morales, Melancon and Atchison under team control. Assuming Ellsbury would cost approximately $20 million a year, that would mean that they could sign him and have $75 million left to fill 9 25-man roster spots. Team salaries are best on 40-man rosters, but most of the players not on the 25-man make chump change.

[SouthieFanatic]

I'm not against Bradley playing RF at all, but it depends on many things. One of which you stated "How much Ellsbury demands". Bradley WILL be ready by the end of 2013 to be an everyday major league player. He's adjusting very well to double-A ball right now in Portland. Through about 30 games he's hitting .326, only a .30 drop from high-a Salem. That's pretty good if you ask me

[example1]

I don't think Jackie Bradley Jr. would prevent us from re-signing Ellsbury. Right field in Fenway park is very large and Bradley has a great arm which would make him ideal for the position. The Red Sox have the salary room to re-sign Ellsbury after 2013' date=' it will probably come down to his contract demands. They currently have less than $95 million committed to 2014 and they would have Gonzalez, Crawford, Beckett, Lackey, Pedroia, Lester, Bailey, Buchholz, Bard, Aceves, Aviles, Miller, Morales, Melancon and Atchison under team control. Assuming Ellsbury would cost approximately $20 million a year, that would mean that they could sign him and have $75 million left to fill 9 25-man roster spots. Team salaries are best on 40-man rosters, but most of the players not on the 25-man make chump change.[/quote']

 

Are you sure about these numbers? I count 107m for just:

 

Beckett (17)

Buchholz (7.95)

Crawford (21.11)

Gonzalez (21.86)

Lackey (15.95)

Lester (13)

Pedroia (10.25)

 

That doesn't include any of the guys who will be at Arb (current salary, so project it higher):

 

Aceves (1.2 + Arb3)

Atchison (Arb1)

Aviles (1.2 + Arb3)

Bailey (3.9 + Arb3)

Bard (1.6 + Arb3)

Miller (1 + Arb3)

Morales (.8 + Arb3)

 

I suspect that will put them much closer to 130, before filling any spots.

[SouthieFanatic]

Are you sure about these numbers? I count 107m for just:

 

Beckett (17)

Buchholz (7.95)

Crawford (21.11)

Gonzalez (21.86)

Lackey (15.95)

Lester (13)

Pedroia (10.25)

 

That doesn't include any of the guys who will be at Arb (current salary, so project it higher):

 

Aceves (1.2 + Arb3)

Atchison (Arb1)

Aviles (1.2 + Arb3)

Bailey (3.9 + Arb3)

Bard (1.6 + Arb3)

Miller (1 + Arb3)

Morales (.8 + Arb3)

 

I suspect that will put them much closer to 130, before filling any spots.

 

I take back what I said..Bring in Bradley!