Youk to White Sox

[BornToRun]

I hope Youk the best. Looks like a addition by subtraction trade. Didn't get anything good in this deal as regards to players.

 

That remains to be seen. The same can be said for youk suddenly turning into a beast again or continuing the downward trend. He could be a solid addition to Chicago or he could go down with hip problems. Which seems more likely at this point.

[SoxFanForsyth]

This trade was NOT about getting equal value.

 

This trade was about getting this team in a position to gain some consistency and be able to put the best team on the field every single night. It was about not having to juggle Gonzalez, Middlebrooks, and Youkilis every single night.

 

And do you think that maybe, just maybe, now that there is some consistency in the lineup, Gonzalez can start to hit like we know he can?? Because maybe we should consider that when trying to figure out what kind of a return the Sox got with Youkilis.

[kapsis21]

If Stewart can get some of the heat back on his fastball' date=' I don't see why he can't become a decent ML pitcher. He's only 25.[/quote']

 

i am hoping we can turn him around. everybody said Miller was a washout. everybody said Saltalamachia is not going to turn it around. so giving them a chance to improve on their talents is what redsox farm system has done, and they have been successful.

[SoxFanForsyth]

And you know what else this trade is about?? Getting younger and moving toward the future. Having a solid mixture of high talent, high energy youth (Middlebrooks, Kalish, Nava) with high talent veterans (Pedroia, Gonzalez, Ross, Ellsbury, Crawford). That's how you become a championship caliber team.

[a700hitter]

So you would rather eat more money and get less in return to send him to an NL team??

 

Come on man. Have some faith in your own ball club. The Sox have WMB at 3B, are getting last years AL MVP of position players in Ellsbury AND Carl Crawford back at the ASB, Beckett back in a matter of days. They have Franklin Morales who has really come in and been a stud, and if he sticks, he's a well above average 5th man in the rotation.

 

Gonzo is starting to get it going. Pedroia is clearly getting hot. We get Cody Ross back who knocks the piss out of LHP.

 

Like I said - Have some faith in your own guys. If they can't make the PS because of 1 game, it's not going to be because of Youkilis. It's going to be because they couldn't hold a lead in the 9th or the 11th against the Tigers, or because they couldn't hold a 9 run lead against the Yankees, or it'll be because they gave up a 9th inning, go ahead HR to Sean Rodriguiz.

I have faith in my guys. That doesn't mean that I hand my opposition a weapon. What did we get rid of $2 million. jeezus, who are we the Royals! I am sure some NL team would have eaten most of that.

[BornToRun]

And you know what else this trade is about?? Getting younger and moving toward the future. Having a solid mixture of high talent' date=' high energy youth (Middlebrooks, Kalish, Nava) with high talent veterans (Pedroia, Gonzalez, Ross, Ellsbury, Crawford). That's how you become a championship caliber team.[/quote']

 

Not to mention getting Gonzalez, who's starting to heat up a bit, back at his actual position. Plus it opens a roster spot for a guy who isn't a middle aged injury risk who can only realistically play 2 positions.

[kapsis21]

people will rant no matter what the FO does. for crying out loud you guys are becoming a nuissance. sorry guys. but it had to be said.

what did you expect for the Youk trade. he wasnt staying healhty and after his DL stint he was getting into some cold stints with hitting.

meanwhile the rookie is raking at 3rd base. how can this not be a win win situation for everybody.

 

lets just geton with playing baseball shall we. his trade value wasnt going to go up, and he was blocking Middlebrooks, that is not news. did we sell low.. maybe.

but we had no option. Youk sitting while Middlebrooks playing wasnt going to increase his trade value.

A smarter GM would have really traded Youk before the season started, but that would meant he envisioned Middlebrooks replacing him on day 1 and everyone of you would have cribbed about it if Ben made that move... ... reposting it

[a700hitter]

This trade was NOT about getting equal value.

 

This trade was about getting this team in a position to gain some consistency and be able to put the best team on the field every single night. It was about not having to juggle Gonzalez, Middlebrooks, and Youkilis every single night.

 

And do you think that maybe, just maybe, now that there is some consistency in the lineup, Gonzalez can start to hit like we know he can?? Because maybe we should consider that when trying to figure out what kind of a return the Sox got with Youkilis.

Who is arguing with you on that? We would have gotten just as young sending him to the NL.

 

It's funny to see you, BTR and SBF all in unison on this. BTR should invite SBF to the dinner with you.

[BornToRun]

I have faith in my guys. That doesn't mean that I hand my opposition a weapon. What did we get rid of $2 million. jeezus' date=' who are we the Royals! I am sure some NL team would have eaten most of that.[/quote']

 

It's really about playing the odds. Ben probably felt that the odds of this team playing well and lillibridge and Stewart contributing are greater than the odds of Chicago and youkilis wrestling a playoff spot away from us. If that's his line of thinking, I'm inclined to agree with him.

[a700hitter]

people will rant no matter what the FO does. for crying out loud you guys are becoming a nuissance. sorry guys. but it had to be said.

what did you expect for the Youk trade. he wasnt staying healhty and after his DL stint he was getting into some cold stints with hitting.

meanwhile the rookie is raking at 3rd base. how can this not be a win win situation for everybody.

People keep asking this, but who is arguing that we should have gotten more. Seriously, who is making that argument? You are missing the point entirely as is everyone else in their rallying around the FO. We got no one, so why not put him out of our misery and send him to the NL. Are these nobody's that we got so good and valuable that it was worth trading him to a competitor?

 

Do people really think these guys are so good that it was worth trading him to a competitor? I can't see how anyone could answer that in the affirmative?

[SoxFanForsyth]

I have faith in my guys. That doesn't mean that I hand my opposition a weapon. What did we get rid of $2 million. jeezus' date=' who are we the Royals! I am sure some NL team would have eaten most of that.[/quote']

 

I mean what did you expect to get back? Are you more worried about the money or the players in return or the fact that Youk went to the ChiSox?

 

If it's the money, who cares. Fine, we ate his salary. It's a 1 year thing and we got salary relief. What if that salary relief now allows us to go after a bigger SP at the deadline because we can take on $2mm more salary than another team? Plus we got out of his option for next year.

 

If it's the players - Youk's value was at zero. Frequent trips to the DL, and when he's been healthy, he hasn't been productive. What would YOU have paid for him if he was on the ChiSox and we needed a 3B? I wouldn't have been all that interested myself.

 

If it's the fact that he went to an AL team, I don't see how that's a huge deal either. Yes. He likely makes them better, but they clearly had the best offer. Isn't it our GM's job to get the maximum return for a player in any trade, and trust that the team he puts out on the field is good enough to beat any team at any given night?

 

And don't you think the Red Sox are significantly better without all the drama and lineup shuffling? Don't you think that players just want to know where they're playing on any given night? I am a strong believer in consistency, and I would be more surprised if Gonzalez didn't start hitting now that he's got some consistency than I would be if he did.

 

I just don't understand your stance. The trade had to be made. It's not a divisional opponent. I, for one, have not nearly conceded the AL East to anyone, especially being only, what, 5.5 out? And winning 9 of our last 11?? And even if they don't win the division, they're 2 out of the WC. 2 games. And Baltimore is one of those in front. Give me a break on them, by the way.

 

Come on man. There is no team in baseball that is going to be as improved as the Red Sox after the ASB. None. If they are even within shouting distance by the ASB, which they almost certainly will be, they will be fighting for the division in September.

[a700hitter]

It's really about playing the odds. Ben probably felt that the odds of this team playing well and lillibridge and Stewart contributing are greater than the odds of Chicago and youkilis wrestling a playoff spot away from us. If that's his line of thinking' date=' I'm inclined to agree with him.[/quote']Do you really think these guys are so good that it was worth trading him to a competitor? Do you expect any contribution from Zack? Lillibridge is a utility guy, who may not be as good as Punto. Why not just give him to an NL team? There are no odds to play. I'll guarantee you that unless Youk gets injured that he will do more for the ChiSox than we get from ZAck or Lillibridge.

 

Would you like to wager me on that? Let's say you bring me in on the dinner with SFF.

[kapsis21]

People keep asking this' date=' but who is arguing that we should have gotten more. Seriously, who is making that argument? You are missing the point entirely as is everyone else in their rallying around the FO. [b']We got no one, so why not put him out of our misery and send him to the NL. Are these nobody's that we got so good and valuable that it was worth trading him to a competitor?[/b]

 

Do people really think these guys are so good that it was worth trading him to a competitor? I can't see how anyone could answer that in the affirmative?

 

explain me this. why is it his misery. we had a logjam and it was getting hard to have either Youk who wasnt hitting or Middlebrooks missing games. it was a no brainer.

[a700hitter]

I mean what did you expect to get back? Are you more worried about the money or the players in return or the fact that Youk went to the ChiSox?

SFF, how much clearer could I make it? IMO, we got nothing-- players or moneywise ($2 million is insignificant). I would rather have taken nothing and sent him to the NL. Do you want to ask me again, what I wanted to get for him? That is not my issue. I would not have given him to a competitor. I would have sent him to the NL.

[BornToRun]

Do you really think these guys are so good that it was worth trading him to a competitor? Do you expect any contribution from Zack? Lillibridge is a utility guy, who may not be as good as Punto. Why not just give him to an NL team? There are no odds to play. I'll guarantee you that unless Youk gets injured that he will do more for the ChiSox than we get from ZAck or Lillibridge.

 

Would you like to wager me on that? Let's say you bring me in on the dinner with SFF.

 

Because those 2 guys, plus the 2 mil in salary relief, was in all likelihood the best possible value we could get for Kevin. The potential benefits that the guys we got and the stability created by the moving of youk outweigh, in my opinion, the chances of Kevin making us regret this trade.

 

It's that simple. Give it some time. Lillibridge is a decent utility man and maybe Stewart can figure himself out and get some velocity back on his heater. Kid was a big deal not too long ago. He's still just 25.

[a700hitter]

explain me this. why is it his misery. we had a logjam and it was getting hard to have either Youk who wasnt hitting or Middlebrooks missing games. it was a no brainer.

You are missing the point entirely. I'd have given him to an NL team instead of giving him to a competitor. Are you really having a hard time understanding that? When we got rid of Nomar, we sent him to the NL, the same with Manny, but we send Youk to a team fighting us for the Wild card. That's just stupid.

[jacksonianmarch]

Effectively, the sox got $2 mil of cap relief. For a big market club, investing $180+ million in this season, it would be poetic if the $2 million they save turns out to be the final push the White Sox needed to put the sox out of it. I completely agree with the sentiment that he needed to be dealt. I just think the sox could have fared better by dealing him to LA than to the CWS. At least the only way you'd run into LA is in the WS, and at that point you take it.

[a700hitter]

Because those 2 guys, plus the 2 mil in salary relief, was in all likelihood the best possible value we could get for Kevin. The potential benefits that the guys we got and the stability created by the moving of youk outweigh, in my opinion, the chances of Kevin making us regret this trade.

 

It's that simple. Give it some time. Lillibridge is a decent utility man and maybe Stewart can figure himself out and get some velocity back on his heater. Kid was a big deal not too long ago. He's still just 25.

Then take my wager.

 

I would rather have gotten nothing for him and sent him to the NL.

[BornToRun]

Then take my wager.

 

I would rather have gotten nothing for him and sent him to the NL.

 

What's the wager? Dinner?

[a700hitter]

What's the wager? Dinner?

Pick your wager. I'll leave it up to you.

[BornToRun]

Pick your wager. I'll leave it up to you.

 

I honestly can't think of anything. Do you have any ideas?

[a700hitter]

I honestly can't think of anything. Do you have any ideas?

We could just acknowledge here that the other guy was right. Let's use WAR as the measure. Youk vs. the 2 bags of garbage that we got.

[BornToRun]

We could just acknowledge here that the other guy was right. Let's use WAR as the measure. Youk vs. the 2 bags of garbage that we got.

 

Well I was arguing about youk costing us a playoff spot. how about this. Chicago costs us a playoff spot, you pick what goes in my sig and if we make the playoffs, I get to do the same. If neither scenario happens, we can call it a wash.

[alphilip77]

Much ado about nothing.

[a700hitter]

Well I was arguing about youk costing us a playoff spot. how about this. Chicago costs us a playoff spot' date=' you pick what goes in my sig and if we make the playoffs, I get to do the same. If neither scenario happens, we can call it a wash.[/quote']How do we measure that?

[mvp 78]

Oh no, they traded a .225 hitter to another AL team! What a devastating weapon to lose!

[a700hitter]

Oh no' date=' they traded a .225 hitter to another AL team! What a devastating weapon to lose![/quote']Why not give them AGon too? He's only hitting in the .250's and his OBP is about the same as Youk's.

[BornToRun]

How do we measure that?

 

If they make it and we don't?

[BornToRun]

Why not give them AGon too? He's only hitting in the .250's and his OBP is about the same as Youk's.

 

I'm praying this is sarcasm.

[a700hitter]

If they make it and we don't?

How will we measure if Youk is the reason? That bet makes no sense. They are a competitors. Let's just look to see if Youk has a positive effect on their WAR that exceeds what we got in return. How much does a win cost the Sox... more than $2 million? We can subtract 1 from Youk's WAR to account for the $2 million.