Francisco Liriano - Buy low candidate?

[Spitball]

It seems like a good time to trade for Francisco Liriano. He is 0-5 with an 8.47 ERA and a whip just north of 2.0. He still throws hard but can't find the plate this season. His past shows he can rebound to pitch well. He is only 28.

 

I am not considering him a savior to this season. He would a reclamation project, plain and simple. If he can be acquired cheaply, he would be worth the gamble in my opinion.

 

I know people want to discuss season changing trades, but I don't know where the trade chips come from until players start getting healthy. Right now with the Sox in last place, buy low candidates make more sense.

[jacksonianmarch]

He looks to me like he needs to either be sent down or converted to relief. I dont think he can be sent down again and I doubt anyone will spend starters cache for a guy to be converted to relief. Also, the sox are flush with lefty relievers.

[Dojji]

Not the right time or place for the Sox.

[Spitball]

When a guy struggles, few see the value in taking a chance on the guy. Liriano stills has a decent k-rate so I am guessing his problems are mechanical and mental. Get him out of the twin cities, and he may turn things around. The guy has the potential to be the Sox' number three starter.

 

This season is full of questions. Oswalt isn't coming to Boston, and I doubt he is much more than a question mark himself. Anyone having a decent season will cost prospects the Sox probably shouldn't be trading at this point. He is a free agent at the end of the season, so the money investment isn't such a big deal.

 

I'd give him a shot. When he is pitching with control, he is clearly a number two or number three. If he were striking out only 5-somethingper 9 like Bard or Buccholz, I'd say pass on the guy. He is striking out just shy of 7 per 9. Get him into another environment, and he could improve a rotation.

[example1]

It totally depends on how his stuff is looking. If the velocity is still there and he costs virtually nothing, then perhaps this would be a reasonable move (assuming they have him around for more than this year, to get things right). If he has fallen off, then I wouldn't waste the space on the 40-man.

[User Name]

It totally depends on how his stuff is looking. If the velocity is still there and he costs virtually nothing' date=' then perhaps this would be a reasonable move (assuming they have him around for more than this year, to get things right). If he has fallen off, then I wouldn't waste the space on the 40-man.[/quote']

 

Average fastball velocity is up nearly one mile (92.4) from last year actually.

[Station 13]

Pass. your blood pressure will reach boiling point if he is here.

[SoxSport]

they have enough problems. why add one more?

[Brennan]

Why not? Henry has become the biggest junk collector in baseball now.

[SoxSport]

Well, they could always try him in right field.

[Palodios]

Yeahhh, I'd say pass on this guy. We're better off with Dice-k or Cook, and that's saying something.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Definitely pass, we already have two projects in this rotation as it is

[Spitball]

Yeahhh' date=' I'd say pass on this guy. We're better off with Dice-k or Cook, and that's saying something.[/quote']

 

I believe he has a higher upside than Matzusaka and way higher than Cook. He has a higher k-9 rate than Beckett, Lester, Bard, and Buchholz. His problem apparently is not physical.

 

His problem at this point is control. He has had problems with it in the past but then fixed the problem.

 

I understand fans don't like to think about reclamation projects. We want to try to figure how to acquire players who are at the top of their game. Players who will cost the organization something of significant value.

 

Luis Tiant was a reclamation project. Alfredo Aceves was a reclamation project. Josh Hamilton was a reclamation project. They can be valuable acquisitions.

[redsoxfan3]

I believe he has a higher upside than Matzusaka and way higher than Cook. He has a higher k-9 rate than Beckett, Lester, Bard, and Buchholz. His problem apparently is not physical.

 

His problem at this point is control. He has had problems with it in the past but then fixed the problem.

 

I understand fans don't like to think about reclamation projects. We want to try to figure how to acquire players who are at the top of their game. Players who will cost the organization something of significant value.

 

Luis Tiant was a reclamation project. Alfredo Aceves was a reclamation project. Josh Hamilton was a reclamation project. They can be valuable acquisitions.

 

Let me ask you this, do you want him as a player who could potentially pitch in AAA to hope that he could actually turn things around, or do you want him to pitch in the majors to try to turn things around? His ERA is even worse than Buchholz. At this point I can see how you think he has something left in the tank, but if we would even consider trading for him, he needs to pitch the rest of the year in the minors. There is no room for him in this rotation. As bad as Buchholz has been this year, his last start still gives us sign of hope and Buchholz is still even putting up better results than Liriano.

 

In your first post in this thread you said that we are in last place and that Liriano is a buy low candidate. That is true, but we are only 4.5 games out of first place with over 100 games to be played. If you are giving up hope on this season, let me remind you not to. Liriano is not a guy that you want in your rotation. I am all for acquiring this guy for the minors, but not for the majors. He will do nothing to help this team. He is one of the worst pitchers in baseball. He has had an inconsistent career. He has had two or three good years as a starting pitcher and this is his 4th year as a pitcher where he his not putting up good numbers. I don't really understand the logic for giving this guy a chance when he is clearly not better than any of our starting five now. His K-9 rate might be good, but that still does not matter if his control is not there. If anything, get this guy to pitch in AAA the rest of the year and make him compete for a spot in the rotation next Spring, other than that there is no room for this guy on our team.

[Spitball]

Let me ask you this, do you want him as a player who could potentially pitch in AAA to hope that he could actually turn things around, or do you want him to pitch in the majors to try to turn things around? His ERA is even worse than Buchholz. At this point I can see how you think he has something left in the tank, but if we would even consider trading for him, he needs to pitch the rest of the year in the minors. There is no room for him in this rotation. As bad as Buchholz has been this year, his last start still gives us sign of hope and Buchholz is still even putting up better results than Liriano.

 

In your first post in this thread you said that we are in last place and that Liriano is a buy low candidate. That is true, but we are only 4.5 games out of first place with over 100 games to be played. If you are giving up hope on this season, let me remind you not to. Liriano is not a guy that you want in your rotation. I am all for acquiring this guy for the minors, but not for the majors. He will do nothing to help this team. He is one of the worst pitchers in baseball. He has had an inconsistent career. He has had two or three good years as a starting pitcher and this is his 4th year as a pitcher where he his not putting up good numbers. I don't really understand the logic for giving this guy a chance when he is clearly not better than any of our starting five now. His K-9 rate might be good, but that still does not matter if his control is not there. If anything, get this guy to pitch in AAA the rest of the year and make him compete for a spot in the rotation next Spring, other than that there is no room for this guy on our team.

 

What is a buy low reclamation project anyway? It is a player whose production is down but has potential to improve. There was a time Chris Carpenter, Brandon McCarthy, Jerome Williams, Kyle Lohse and others were on scrap heaps before putting their promise back together. Cliff Lee and Zach Greinke could have been buy low candidates at one time in their careers.

 

Liriano is a candidate because he has struggled recently just as the players mentioned above did at one time. But he has a career k-rate of 8.99 which is excellent. He struggles with his control at times but has shown the capacity to get it back. From 2009 to 2010, he improved his walk rate from 4.3 to 2.7 with his ERA dropping more than two runs a game.

 

What should be expected from Liriano? It is impossible to tell that. He still throws very hard so he works with Bob McLure and hopes to find some answers to his control problems. The problems are obviously mechanical and mental so success is possible.

 

If Buchholz and Bard continue to struggle or someone gets hurt, I would rather have more than Dice-K or Cook to fall back on. The Liriano of 2010 and 2006, when he demonstrated control, was a very good pitcher.

[Spitball]

What is a buy low reclamation project anyway? It is a player whose production is down but has potential to improve. There was a time Chris Carpenter, Brandon McCarthy, Jerome Williams, Kyle Lohse and others were on scrap heaps before putting their promise back together. Cliff Lee and Zach Greinke could have been buy low candidates at one time in their careers.

 

Liriano is a candidate because he has struggled recently just as the players mentioned above did at one time. But he has a career k-rate of 8.99 which is excellent. He struggles with his control at times but has shown the capacity to get it back. From 2009 to 2010, he improved his walk rate from 4.3 to 2.7 with his ERA dropping more than two runs a game.

 

What should be expected from Liriano? It is impossible to tell that. He still throws very hard so he works with Bob McLure and hopes to find some answers to his control problems. The problems are obviously mechanical and mental so success is possible.

 

If Buchholz and Bard continue to struggle or someone gets hurt, I would rather have more than Dice-K or Cook to fall back on. The Liriano of 2010 and 2006, when he demonstrated control, was a very good pitcher.

 

Let me add that I am talking about acquiring Liriano on the low. I'm advocating C to B- prospects for a pitcher with potential to turn his career around.

 

The Twins are not doing well. Liriano is struggling with his command and is a free agent at the end of the year. He won't cost much. I'd like to see the Sox make a low cost, short term investment in Liriano.

[Emmz]

He can't locate any of his pitches at all, and that Randy Johnson type slider he used to throw isn't even there anymore, because he blew out his arm throwing it too much. He can't hit the upper 90s anymore. I don't want him pitching for anyone but the Yankees or White Sox or Tigers. He gives up 5 runs every time he pitches, and he usually doesn't even make it into the 6th anymore.

[Dojji]

I agree. I don't think there's enough left there.

[Spitball]

He can't locate any of his pitches at all' date=' and that Randy Johnson type slider he used to throw isn't even there anymore, because he blew out his arm throwing it too much. He can't hit the upper 90s anymore. I don't want him pitching for anyone but the Yankees or White Sox or Tigers. He gives up 5 runs every time he pitches, and he usually doesn't even make it into the 6th anymore.[/quote']

 

He has been stinking. His lack of control is why he can't make it into sixth.

 

But...he is still striking out 7.9 batters per nine. He obviously has some significant velocity still there which makes him a viable reclamation project. His problems are obviously mechanical (not physical) and thus possibly fixable as they were in 2010.

[Spitball]

This was Liriano's line today in his win against Oakland.

 

IP-6.0 H-3 R-0 ER-0 BB-2 K-9

[Station 13]

This was Liriano's line today in his win against Oakland.

 

IP-6.0 H-3 R-0 ER-0 BB-2 K-9

 

.

[FredLynn]

This was Liriano's line today in his win against Oakland.

 

IP-6.0 H-3 R-0 ER-0 BB-2 K-9

 

But Oakland has a crappy offense.

Oh wait....they just won a series against the Red Sox and scored 15 runs in three games.

Liriano would be fine for depth. Bard has a limit on how much he can pitch this year and we will be needing another SP at some point.

[Station 13]

Guy they got from Scooter trade did decent here. He is a starter.

[Spitball]

But Oakland has a crappy offense.

Oh wait....they just won a series against the Red Sox and scored 15 runs in three games.

Liriano would be fine for depth. Bard has a limit on how much he can pitch this year and we will be needing another SP at some point.

 

Right. This is one guy who can possibly make a difference and won't cost the Sox a Will Middlebrooks type prospect.

[Emmz]

He has been stinking. His lack of control is why he can't make it into sixth.

 

But...he is still striking out 7.9 batters per nine. He obviously has some significant velocity still there which makes him a viable reclamation project. His problems are obviously mechanical (not physical) and thus possibly fixable as they were in 2010.

 

Don't see it happening, but for the right price it really doesn't matter. I just don't see it working out really, he can't locate his watered down arsenal of pitches.

[Emmz]

But Oakland has a crappy offense.

Oh wait....they just won a series against the Red Sox and scored 15 runs in three games.

Liriano would be fine for depth. Bard has a limit on how much he can pitch this year and we will be needing another SP at some point.

 

Small sample size, he also gave up 5 runs in each of his past how many starts? And this is at Target Field, his ERA has been 5.58 since the beginning of last year, with a 1.577 WHIP. Imagine how much that inflates playing at Fenway Park.

[Spitball]

Against Oakland in a loss. I'm not sure he will still be a true buy low candidate at this point.

IP- 8.0 H-4 R-4 ER-3 BB- 1 SO-15